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Equine Canada Statement and backlash from Eric Lamaze

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Secret Dove View Post
    We wouldn't mind if Eric came and rode for us!!! We'd love to have him!
    I doubt he'd be asked, with his history. Drug convictions are not conducive to citizenship.

    The whole thing is silly. The horse had a sore spot on his coronary, causing sensitivity. Against the rules. Plain and simple. What does the Canadian Federation have to apologize for ?
    ... _. ._ .._. .._

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    • #22
      I love Eric but do not support his move here.
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      "I know nothing with any certainty, but the sight of stars makes me dream." --Vincent Van Gogh

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      • #23
        I wonder how you would all feel if it was an American rider .... I would hate for him to miss the competitions in Spain and at SM, but really EC is not supporting the Canadian athletes. Their statement should have been much stronger in supporting Tiffany and THANKING the FEI?
        Why doesn't the FEI do anything about rollkur? oh, I forgot...European federations are much higher in their books...
        Oh, and glad to know that drug convictions don't help gaining citizenship.. this would work in our favour!!
        I just hope he rocks tomorrow...

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by misswinfortune View Post
          Personally, I love it! Tiffany has really been on the bad end of some FEI wrong-doing and I bet it means the world to her for Eric to make such a stand.
          While I agree I think a lot of people are forgetting that Eric is Tiffany's coach. I feel like her competing at the olympics meant a lot to him in that respect. That said, I agree that he is making quite the stand. His voice is loud in Canada and while I don't think the Equine Canada statement was awful, it completely avoided the issue.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by SSacky View Post
            While I agree I think a lot of people are forgetting that Eric is Tiffany's coach. I feel like her competing at the olympics meant a lot to him in that respect. That said, I agree that he is making quite the stand. His voice is loud in Canada and while I don't think the Equine Canada statement was awful, it completely avoided the issue.
            What exactly is the issue? That the FEI followed the rules and protocol set out?

            And it's not like this is some new rule that no one knew about. Why wasn't Eric protesting and threatening to boycott when the rule was implemented?
            www.OneJumpAhead.ca

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            • Original Poster

              #26
              Originally posted by Ravencrest_Camp View Post
              I'm sorry I don't see this as a class move by Eric at all. More like a temper tantrum.

              And I can not agree or praise him for his conduct during the press conference. To say he is "ashamed" of his sport is beyond the pale. A sport that has given him everything he has, a sport that has given him numerous second chances.

              His is a great story. A kid that came from nothing and with talent and hard work became one of the best riders in the world. And then having to over come adversity. But now it just appears like he has a sense of entitlement and that the rules should not apply to his students.
              There's nothing wrong with a team mate supporting and defending a team mate. It is NOT a "temper tantrum". His "conduct" was fine in the press conference, he was mad at what the FEI did to Tiffany and was voicing his opinion. Nothing wrong with that! Sounds like you're bitter about Eric. That's no reason to attack a rider on a BB.

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              • Original Poster

                #27
                Originally posted by FalseImpression View Post
                I wonder how you would all feel if it was an American rider .... I would hate for him to miss the competitions in Spain and at SM, but really EC is not supporting the Canadian athletes. Their statement should have been much stronger in supporting Tiffany and THANKING the FEI?
                Why doesn't the FEI do anything about rollkur? oh, I forgot...European federations are much higher in their books...
                Oh, and glad to know that drug convictions don't help gaining citizenship.. this would work in our favour!!
                I just hope he rocks tomorrow...
                We did have something similar happen to one of our riders in 2010 and no one stood up for him like Eric is for Tiffany!

                Comment


                • #28
                  It's not just Eric. Jill Henselwood has also publicly expressed her outrage.

                  Perhaps this will make Canadians get involved in the voting process with Equine Canada. Every member can vote. All the board of directors are voted in, so Canadians have the power to oust them.
                  Practice! Patience! Persistence!
                  http://www.mariposasporthorses.com/
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                  • Original Poster

                    #29
                    Originally posted by rodawn View Post
                    It's not just Eric. Jill Henselwood has also publicly expressed her outrage.

                    Perhaps this will make Canadians get involved in the voting process with Equine Canada. Every member can vote. All the board of directors are voted in, so Canadians have the power to oust them.
                    Do you have a link to what Jill's said? I haven't read anything yet...

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                    • #30
                      I'm confused. Is Erik upset that the FEI upheld their rules and would have preferred that they allowed Tiffany to ride a sore horse?

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                      • #31
                        Originally posted by shireluver View Post
                        I'm confused. Is Erik upset that the FEI upheld their rules and would have preferred that they allowed Tiffany to ride a sore horse?
                        I think the issue goes beyond this particular incident. There has been a lot of raised eyebrows in the whole "hypersensitivity" rule. It's completely subjective. It rules a horse "hypersensitive" if they are ouchy to a sore tendon just as if they are ouchy to a small cut on their coronary band (as in this case). Do you think those two scenarios should be created equal? I think a horse with a small cut or "lesion" on it's coronary band (that may have pulled back when the area was poked at) may be fine to compete. I think this is what all the fuss is about.
                        Originally posted by rustbreeches
                        [George Morris] doesn't always drink beer, but when he does, he prefers Dos Equis

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                        • #32
                          Originally posted by jlphilli View Post
                          I think the issue goes beyond this particular incident. There has been a lot of raised eyebrows in the whole "hypersensitivity" rule. It's completely subjective. It rules a horse "hypersensitive" if they are ouchy to a sore tendon just as if they are ouchy to a small cut on their coronary band (as in this case). Do you think those two scenarios should be created equal? I think a horse with a small cut or "lesion" on it's coronary band (that may have pulled back when the area was poked at) may be fine to compete. I think this is what all the fuss is about.
                          That, and as with Sapphire last year, they pokedandpokedandpokedandpoked until finally the horse said, "JEEBUS! ENOUGH ALREADY WITH THE POKING!" and flinched or pulled his leg away.

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                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Mara View Post
                            That, and as with Sapphire last year, they pokedandpokedandpokedandpoked until finally the horse said, "JEEBUS! ENOUGH ALREADY WITH THE POKING!" and flinched or pulled his leg away.
                            Yes. What do you think you would do if you were poked 50+ times? A nick on a coronet band (from a shoe, a rail, anything) isn't okay, but yet dressage horses cantering around with their tongues flailing out or necks hyperflexed is perfectly acceptable. I just don't get it. Bravo to Eric.

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                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Ravencrest_Camp View Post
                              I'm sorry I don't see this as a class move by Eric at all. More like a temper tantrum.

                              And I can not agree or praise him for his conduct during the press conference. To say he is "ashamed" of his sport is beyond the pale. A sport that has given him everything he has, a sport that has given him numerous second chances.
                              A sport that has given him numerous second chances? I can't speak for Eric, but I know firsthand what a cruel and exclusive world the hunter/jumper industry/circuit can be. I doubt he was welcomed back with open arms and support after he overcame his drug use, I'd be willing to bet he had to work
                              five times as hard as anyone else to be re-accepted and earn the respect of his peers and sponsors.

                              If this sport truly has given him everything he has, then IMO calling certain people higher up out on their $#!+ is one of the best things he can do for it. Someone in his position has the influence to make an impact, and he is doing it, not sitting around letting his teammates get pushed around. I applaud vigorously.

                              "Pat the horse; kick yourself" - Carl Hester

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                              • #35
                                Originally posted by Secret Dove View Post
                                Do you have a link to what Jill's said? I haven't read anything yet...
                                Interview with TSN and carried also by CTV:

                                http://www.tsn.ca/story/?id=402477

                                http://www.ctvolympics.ca/other/news...ification.html


                                Quote:
                                Both Lamaze and Henselwood said Canada will appeal the decision. They believe the rules need to be changed and they were robbed of a legitimate chance to contend for a medal.

                                "Canada should know that for sure we're going to fight it,"Henselwood said. "Unfair is unfair. I'm not supposed to say that. She's an innocent on our team. Sometimes rules need to evolve or change or be clarified. That's one of them. But I'm not supposed to say a word."

                                As well, Torchy has been very vocal and he said something that really made a lot of sense:
                                "It’s a girl’s Olympic dream ….This is like getting a scratch on your finger and the referee saying you’re unfit for competition. That’s the equivalent. Every rule needs to be applied with a sense of balance, perspective and common sense. To me, and compatriots from other teams, this seems to lack any balance at all."

                                This latter quote from HorseJunkiesunited.com

                                For what it's worth, I've also pubicly expressed my own opinion that this particular ruling needs crucial clarification. Hypersensitivity due to a tender ligament or cruelty is not the same as a horse banging themselves in a stall and developing a small cut. Poke any fresh cut and the you're going to react. I've cut my own arm, hand or leg and yes the cut is tender. Poke it and I'm going to react and move away. But does it stop me from continuing to work? No. A small cut on a horse's coronet band is not going to cause it to be significantly challenged when ridden. In fact, Tiffany was riding and jumping in the warm-up ring during the initial formal protest just in case it would be overturned, but the protest was hardly heard.

                                The other point in this rule that needs to be changed is the fact that THERE IS NO MEANS OF RECOURSE IF A HORSE IS DISQUALIFIED FOR HYPERSENSITIVITY, NO MATTER THE CAUSE OF THE HYPERSENSITIVITY. The ruling is final. Period.

                                I think this is the most unfair part of this ruling of all. There are different reasons for, and levels of hypersensitivity. At its base, DQ'ing a horse for injury is a very good ruling. A horse should be disqualified if they are lame or a rider DQ'd if they have performed some abuse to a horse causing injury, hypersensitivity or distress to a horse and many different forms of abuse already being raised in the various forums here. But the horse was not even taken out of its stall and trotted out. If you're going to DQ a horse, have the balls to take the horse out of its stall and TROT it on hard and soft surfaces and really make sure the horse is sound. Lunge the horse in both directions if you must. Get the rider on the horse and watch the horse trotting back and forth repeatedly before your eyes. MAKE GOOD AND SURE THE HORSE IS LAME OR IN DISTRESS before DQing it. Do a drug test to make sure it's not being covered. Put some real effort into it!!!

                                A visual inspection and POKING repeatedly at a fresh wound is not good enough.

                                Equine Canada barely supports its riders monetarily. The riders and horse owners have put tens of thousands of dollars into this by themselves out of their own pockets. So, EC should have the balls and backbone to stand behind their riders and make good and sure the athletes are treated FAIRLY.

                                There's my rant for the day.
                                Last edited by rodawn; Aug. 7, 2012, 11:19 PM.
                                Practice! Patience! Persistence!
                                http://www.mariposasporthorses.com/
                                https://www.facebook.com/MariposaSportHorses/

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                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by Equibrit View Post
                                  I doubt he'd be asked, with his history. Drug convictions are not conducive to citizenship.

                                  The whole thing is silly. The horse had a sore spot on his coronary, causing sensitivity. Against the rules. Plain and simple. What does the Canadian Federation have to apologize for ?
                                  Yes. Who is caring about the horse? A fabricated emoti-con here...perhaps a way to draw attention from poor performances...fighting your team is very ungrateful. They are paying for you to be there enjoying the Olympic experience.
                                  Proud & Permanent Student Of The Long Road
                                  Read me: EN (http://eventingnation.com/author/annemarch/) and HJU (http://horsejunkiesunited.com/author/holly-covey/)

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                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by shireluver View Post
                                    I'm confused. Is Erik upset that the FEI upheld their rules and would have preferred that they allowed Tiffany to ride a sore horse?
                                    From what I have read, Eric objected that a) a rule (which is, let's face it, largely meant to prohibit the use of irritants that cause a horse to overjump) had been misapplied and b) there was no attempt to test the horse for lameness or ability to compete, so the whole "for the horse's sake" argument is hogwash.

                                    Equine Canada's statement is a slap in the face of its athletes. I just wish they all had Eric's balls to refuse to compete. Michael Gallagher has to go.
                                    Sentinel Hill Farm
                                    Home of VDL Windsor H

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                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by mayhew View Post
                                      Bravo. I don't care if he did rails off of Cagney's back, I love the man.
                                      Yes. What do you think you would do if you were poked 50+ times? A nick on a coronet band (from a shoe, a rail, anything) isn't okay, but yet dressage horses cantering around with their <BLUE> tongues flailing out or necks hyperflexed is perfectly acceptable. I just don't get it. Bravo to Eric.
                                      haha ^ Love!! Kudo's to Eric for having the gumption to stand up for his teammates.

                                      They are show jumpers for cripes sakes every now and then one is going to rub a rail and get a nick, bump , scrape. It should be a combined collaboration between the horses team vet (since they know the horse ) and the FEI committee as to weather the horse is fit to compete.
                                      "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

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                                      • #39
                                        I wish they would go and poke every horse that hit a jump... I bet there are a few that would be hypersensitive as well...
                                        and rollkur... again... how is that not abuse?

                                        I would love to see a picture of the lesion (I bet there isn't one because it's barely visible). This rule is good in principle, but it can't be black and white.. and those are vets? really? why don't they take the horse out of the stall? why don't they trot the horse? if they are going to make such an important decision for a rider/team, why don't they make the effort to be really convincing?

                                        Did Ian Millar make any comment on this? or is he staying out of it? I would be disappointed if he did...

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                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by retreadeventer View Post
                                          Yes. Who is caring about the horse? A fabricated emoti-con here...perhaps a way to draw attention from poor performances...fighting your team is very ungrateful. They are paying for you to be there enjoying the Olympic experience.
                                          Poor performances? Canada did pretty darn well considering.

                                          From what I heard from a bunch of different people is that it wasn't even a properly applied test. The vets basically went in for a couple minutes, found a scratch, poked till the horse said eff off already and deemed it 'unfit to compete'

                                          The basis of this rule is to prevent people from intentionally irritating horses' legs to gain an advantage. Considering the uproar and description of the 'injury' you can bet the horse wasn't off... this wasn't out of protection, this was to prevent a Canadian advantage and the point of view of Eric and the team is that there's no way this even makes sense given its a tiny cut.

                                          Go ahead and poke your horse everywhere. You'll probably find one spot that irritates him, maybe its a bug bite or something. Do you really think he's unfit to compete?

                                          The EC response was a bit of a slap. It was a clear attempt to kiss the behinds of the FEI which in this case meant completely ignoring the voices of their own athletes.

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