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Buying your way into the Olympics...

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  • Original Poster

    Originally posted by fair judy View Post
    glad to see that no one picked up your ball and ran with it.
    "Fair" judy, I don't understand where this post is coming from. I was simply commenting on what was said by the BBC commentators. There was no "ball" regarding what I said in my posts. I find it very presumptuous that you think you know exactly what I was thinking. The written word can be interpreted many different ways - isn't that part of the basic premise of so many literary courses and, dare I say, book clubs? Personally, I can look in the mirror each day and not have a problem with what I said

    Comment


    • Originally posted by lauriep View Post
      I have heard that there has to be a certificate of capability for each rider/horse, and that Sharbatly did not compete his horse before the deadline to do this. I don't know the particulars, but if true, another bending of the rules to get them to the Olympics.
      He won a GP in Hoofddorp NL on June 17, which the Dutch media said was his ticket.
      Last edited by Coreene; Aug. 7, 2012, 02:32 AM.

      Comment


      • And the gal from KSA was given permission to cover her head while competing.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          As a complete aside, how adorable did Ben Maher look on his homebred Tripple X. Shades of Hugh Grant (for us older girls!)

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Coreene View Post
            He won a GP in Hoofddorp NL on June 17, which the Dutch media said was his ticket.
            He did. A smaller class on Melodie Ardente, not Sultan. Maybe the guidelines aren't specific about the rider AND horse being certified, but you would think that wouldn't be a good loophole to have!

            Rodrigo used a GNT class to get Reboza in before the deadline.
            Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ako View Post
              Somebody on here remarked that the US not being on the podium (yet) is a failure. With all respect, I think this is BS. Unfortunate? Yes. A failure? Noooo. Last I checked, we don't have some God-given right to any medal. We have to earn it like everybody else. And even our top riders and top horses have a bad day. It's part of the game.

              And folks buying their way into the Olympics? Yes. We do it, too. Who here would pass up a horse like Cylana or Mr. Medicott if offered?! Not me!!!

              This just smacks of nationalism and potentially some anti-Muslim sentiment thrown in for good measure. Puhhleeeeese!!

              Now, that said, I would LOVE for the US to have as many nice sport horses as they do over in Europe, without having to import. Yes, we do have good breeders and nice horses here, but they're fewer and farther between than in Europe. I agree I would like to see this change.... Not for any nationalistic reasons, but rather purely for my own selfish interests.
              This is such a great post!!!! It is amazing how the same people who claim to be open minded suddenly revert to bitter hatred when someone challanges the status quo...gives one a lot to think about.
              "All life is precious"
              Sophie Scholl

              Comment


              • The FEI has a special procedure--#8 in their Olympic qualifications rules--that permits a special Foreign Assessing Delegate to assess the qualifications of a pair on an individual basis when the pair cannot qualify normally. It seems to be an extraordinary procedure, but it might well have been used here.
                "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                Thread killer Extraordinaire

                Comment


                • From the FEI, here is how you qualify:

                  http://www.fei.org/sites/default/fil...5March2012.pdf

                  Comment


                  • "athletes/horses" seems to be a key condition so I'm not how Sharbatly qualified via the rules in Hoofddorp if he didn't show his Olympic mount, unless they set up a special class just for him?

                    They probably have a special exemption clause they are working with, but it stinks a bit that Sharbatly gets in with what appears to be some unusual circumstances, but Rodrigo and McLain had injuries and still managed to do it in accordance with the rules and down to the wire.
                    Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DMK View Post
                      "athletes/horses" seems to be a key condition so I'm not how Sharbatly qualified via the rules in Hoofddorp if he didn't show his Olympic mount, unless they set up a special class just for him?

                      They probably have a special exemption clause they are working with, but it stinks a bit that Sharbatly gets in with what appears to be some unusual circumstances, but Rodrigo and McLain had injuries and still managed to do it in accordance with the rules and down to the wire.
                      ^
                      Originally posted by rustbreeches
                      [George Morris] doesn't always drink beer, but when he does, he prefers Dos Equis

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Moesha View Post
                        This is such a great post!!!! It is amazing how the same people who claim to be open minded suddenly revert to bitter hatred when someone challanges the status quo...gives one a lot to think about.
                        I'd take exception to that statement about it being an anti-Moslem issue. Consider myself very open minded, but have lived in KSA - even once in a Sharbatly compound. There is a definite attitude of "the world owes me" by many young Saudi men, that for me, would precede my raising eyebrows at just buying a great horse and hopping on. However, I was really impressed with the rides that I was able to catch in this competition. It all depends upon the individual. I'd expect to see some of the "I'm entitled" attitude based on my past personal experience, and I'd expect others may have had the same as well. But looks like that's finally changing. Great coaching, and excellent riding.

                        They will finally be totally accepted when their country gets the anti-woman issue resolved. And that is not an anti-Moslem attitude. That is an anti-extremist Moslem attitude.
                        But he thought, "This procession has got to go on." So he walked more proudly than ever, as his noblemen held high the train that wasn't there at all. H.C.Anderson

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by DMK View Post
                          "athletes/horses" seems to be a key condition so I'm not how Sharbatly qualified via the rules in Hoofddorp if he didn't show his Olympic mount, unless they set up a special class just for him?

                          They probably have a special exemption clause they are working with, but it stinks a bit that Sharbatly gets in with what appears to be some unusual circumstances, but Rodrigo and McLain had injuries and still managed to do it in accordance with the rules and down to the wire.
                          Here's a good article that explains all this.
                          http://horsetimesegypt.com/horsetime...ails.asp?id=68

                          I thought both Kamal and HRH rode just beautifully throughout the Games, with the pressure just getting to Kamal a wee bit in the final individual round. Sharbatly, clearly not so much, but I appreciate good riding when I see it and there is no way Kamal and HRH did not deliver the real deal!
                          "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

                          Comment


                          • They're all amazing horses and amazing riders; they have to be to get this far.

                            But included in phenomenal riders are high-level trainers and high-level riders. I think the best are both. By being not only able to show an Olympic caliber horse, but actually train it to that point, the rider attains a deeper understanding of the horse and how best to keep it going its best, with more ideal training rides. The way I think about it, its the difference in understanding you have for a horse you've trained and for a catch ride that has already been trained.

                            Obtaining the best horses at young ages is therefore vital too - so breeding the best plays an important role too.

                            Thoughts? Could making better trainers, or riders more focused on training, be the key to more success in the future?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by War Admiral View Post
                              I thought both Kamal and HRH rode just beautifully throughout the Games, with the pressure just getting to Kamal a wee bit in the final individual round. Sharbatly, clearly not so much, but I appreciate good riding when I see it and there is no way Kamal and HRH did not deliver the real deal!
                              That is true, and Steve Guerdat delivered the real deal as well... but what does that have to do with Sharbatly's case or the disposition of it?

                              They probably set up a special class to watch him ride Sultan (or accepted the Wettenhall CSIO3 6/29 double clear), but by their own stated rules he didn't qualify at Hoofddorp by winning the GP on a different horse.
                              Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by DMK View Post
                                That is true, and Steve Guerdat delivered the real deal as well... but what does that have to do with Sharbatly's case or the disposition of it?
                                Clearly someone didn't trouble to read the link...
                                "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by War Admiral View Post
                                  Clearly someone didn't trouble to read the link...
                                  No, really I did, so please tell *where* Sharbatly qualified on Sultan because I admit, in addition to reading that I have a day job, a bjillion health care reform deadlines looming and IT issues on a PC that is responsible for said HCR deadlines, so I might have missed it. But all I saw was that it discussed the appeal/overturn of the FEI decision on the bute positive. There was nothing new about that and it is a separate issue from the actual certification process, so please save me the trouble of reading it again and give me the cliff notes version. Where? When? Height? Faults?
                                  Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

                                  Comment


                                  • Last date to qualify under their published rules was June 17. June 29 is long after that. Horses that didn't qualify before June 17 were not supposed to be nominated entries. Final official entries were due on July 9.
                                    http://www.fei.org/sites/default/fil...15June2012.pdf

                                    The Arbitration award was announced on June 7th but not published until July 17. It would seem that the only legitimate way that the combination with Sultan could have qualified is through the exceptional procedure.

                                    According to the FEI rules, the combination has to qualify for the Olympic Games.

                                    According to this article from the H/J Forum, http://www.horsesportinternational.c...scandal-games/
                                    the special qualifier was held on June 13th. The horse and rider had never even been to an FEI level show together, per this article.

                                    If bending the rules to get Middle Eastern Nations to support the FEI (Princess Haya is the opening wedge there one supposes), then are they worth it? The Saudis could easily support more than 4 show jumpers. Or they could have nominated a team of just three.

                                    Now I'm wondering where the International Judge who certified capability came from? And exactly who it was?
                                    Last edited by vineyridge; Aug. 9, 2012, 09:34 AM.
                                    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                                    Thread killer Extraordinaire

                                    Comment


                                    • If the Saudis had one problem getting to this Olympics, ok. Maybe two. But it seems there were numerous "exceptions" made, for Sharbatly specifically. Of course they are welcome and should provide great competition. But they still have to follow ALL the rules and do it exactly as the other teams have to. Getting in because of who you know can't be tolerated, especially with the hypersensitivity thing out there taking riders out for no apparent reason.
                                      Laurie

                                      Comment


                                      • If you haven't got the goods as a rider, it isn't going to matter who initially trained the horse or where it came from. HOWEVER....if we're going to go down THAT road, why are we so elated when "our" Germans do well? Were/Are we "buying" our way into top level competition when the US is represented by the likes of Gunther Seidel, Steffen Peters, et al.

                                        Comment


                                        • [Slightly] off topic, but:
                                          Does it bother anyone else to see the number of athletes (riders, in this case, but I've noticed it in other sports, too) live & train in other countries, then show up with their birth/citizenship countries' colors? Or CHANGE citizenship merely to compete (perhaps because country-of-choice offers a better opportunity to make the team)?

                                          And yes, I understand that the smaller or more isolated countries would be hard-put to hone the ADDITIONAL experience of showing in their geographical positions, but there's just something that makes me unhappy when I hear that so-and-so from XYZ land lives and trains in BNC (big name country). Admittedly, I'm a dinosaur. I sorely miss the days of the REAL USET (sorry, guys, 4 or 5 people per sport who only pretend to operate as a team every couple years just don't match the USET of deNemethy & LeGoff days.

                                          Ah well, the times they have a'changed.

                                          Carol
                                          www.ayliprod.com
                                          Equine Photography in the Northeast

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