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Ooops - Beezie Madden.........

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  • #21
    My post above was directed at FineAlready.
    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

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    • #22
      It does take the pressure off the individual team members for qualifying for the Individual - only THREE riders are allowed to compete per country individually... AND she can compete in the Team competition today and tomorrow - so, I think there is nothing to worry about. (Even though I agree with the BBC... we can all have off days, and when both horse and rider have it at once, there is no help.)

      I have no doubt she'll be fine today and tomorrow!!
      co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!

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      • #23
        Originally posted by FineAlready View Post
        Some people on here and on Facebook act like she got into a half seat and grabbed mane at three strides out or something.
        You say that like it's a bad thing.

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        • #24
          Beezie is a fabulous rider and one of the best, but she made an error and buried the horse at the A part of the obstacle. Horse crawled over it without enough energy to make the 2 strides so Beezie pulled her out. Then Beezie rode her to exactly the same spot. Rider error, she admits it. Everyone makes a mistake sometimes. Sad when it's in the Olympics but it takes nothing away from Beezies accomplishments and abilities. It's just so hard to be perfect at this level all the time

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          • #25
            Originally posted by teddygirl View Post
            Beezie is a fabulous rider and one of the best, but she made an error and buried the horse at the A part of the obstacle. Horse crawled over it without enough energy to make the 2 strides so Beezie pulled her out. Then Beezie rode her to exactly the same spot. Rider error, she admits it. Everyone makes a mistake sometimes. Sad when it's in the Olympics but it takes nothing away from Beezies accomplishments and abilities. It's just so hard to be perfect at this level all the time
            teddygirl, this is *exactly* what I saw...

            The mare is 15.2, so in order to get the (forward) two to that maxed out oxer, she needed a bigger, more forward jump at A, so that she could land "farther in". The mare clearly said "no can do" on her second attempt at B when she again got deep to A.

            I don't think anyone is saying that Beezie isn't a phenomenal rider; she is obviously among the elite jumper riders, worldwide. She just had a bad moment there, which is a shame! At least she still gets to ride for the team medal.
            "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

            "It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")

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            • #26
              Foxtrot, I'm not sure how else your post could be interpreted? Sure seems like you were saying "Lamaze can pull it off with a green horse but Beezie can't because Lamaze is just plain better." I dunno, please explain what you meant otherwise.

              As for people saying that it was a bad ride in...didn't any of you think the mare was sucking back to the first element awfully hard? My view was that the distance was what it was because of that, and that most riders would have had a stop there. I have do doubt that Beezie said it was her own fault. That's just the kind of gracious, introspective person she is.

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              • #27
                Definitely just a bad day for both horse and rider. Although I did think beezie looked like she got flustered coming back into it. The horse has been jumping left the entire course so she does a very small left circle back to it and barely has the horse straight enough to jump it the second time. Perhaps they pared down their warmup/prep to try and preserve the mare for the next rounds?

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                • #28
                  While it looks like it was the same ride the second time, she probably did do something different it just had the same result. Sometimes that just happens, even to the best riders. In my last lesson, I kept meeting the jump half a stride off, getting too deep every time, I tried different things, but in reality had to completely change my corner to get it right, but it took me several tries and my horse was behaving. When a horse is not listening well it makes it that much harder. Sucks that the moment comes on the big stage, but it happens at times. It is so much easier to make those mistakes when your horse is being less than perfect and maybe different than normal and you have a lot to think about and do in a very short amount of time.
                  http://community.webshots.com/user/jenn52318

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                  • #29
                    Fine Already - whatever words you chose to put into my sentence are yours alone - I was saying that they had (relatively) younger, inexperienced horses and were both the riders who could pull it off. I'm the last person to be putting blame on an athlete, or act witchy about it.
                    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

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                    • #30
                      Is someone blogging about the details of the SJ competition? I can't get anything live and am just getting short replays here and there.

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                      • #31
                        I agree with teddygirl, Dr. Doolittle, and apparently with the BBC commentators. First one looked like pilot error to me, first and repeat viewings. And then on attempt 2, the horse said "Ain't happening, lady." Personally, I'd assume it's a LOT easier to misjudge something riding a GP course at GP speed than it is at the height/speed most of the rest of us jump.
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                        • #32
                          Originally posted by kmwines01 View Post
                          Although I did think beezie looked like she got flustered
                          I'm not foolhardy enough to question Beezie's riding skill or anything like that, because we all know that she's proven that a thousand times over...

                          ...but I think you hit on the reason that there's so many raised eyebrows out there, whether people will say/admit it or not. After the second refusal, she used her crop hard behind her right leg. Totally and completely understandable.

                          But then, a few seconds later, she switched hands, raised the whip clear above her shoulder (almost to head level) and whacked the everloving sh!t outta the mare behind her left leg. This was done several strides after the mare had already begun cantering away from the fence, and several seconds after already disciplining her on the rightward side.

                          .......sorry, but that's uncalled for. A whip raised to your head? That's just anger and frustration, not constructive discipline. I don't care who you are. Beezie Madden, George Morris, Jesus Christ, or anyone else-- no reason to behave like that.

                          And while I'm not going to speak for the OP, I would be willing to bet that that's what she meant by the "off the Christmas list" comment.

                          Then again, I'd also bet she probably regrets it... and we've all been there before. So not hating on Beezie, just pointing out something that I thought some of you also feel but have yet to voice.
                          A vaincre sans péril, on triomphe sans gloire.
                          ~ImmortalSynn

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                          • #33
                            I don't think you can judge that. Breezie is one of the most unemotional people I know, particularly with her horses. None of us know if this has been an issue in the past that may have been threatening to recur. Not being the trainer, or an insider, I think making that judgement is a stretch. The officials didn't call her on it, so I trust her judgement.
                            Laurie

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                            • #34
                              Originally posted by lauriep View Post
                              Breezie is one of the most unemotional people
                              Awesome... but if you're attempting to make the case that that somehow renders her immune to reflexively/mistakenly lashing out in frustration instead of construction, as all riders have been guilty of at some point, then we'd most certainly have to agree to disagree on that.

                              That said, I'm not here to argue. So I'll just say my bit and leave it at that. Be well.
                              A vaincre sans péril, on triomphe sans gloire.
                              ~ImmortalSynn

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                              • #35
                                At the level that BM rides there has to be a belief that the horse is going to GO. VV was jumping horribly yesterday (keep in mind it's all relative) and she seemed almost unridable. I wasn't sure how BM stayed in the tack after the first jump when they landed in a heap. They met the entry to that combination too deep and on the first pass BM realized they weren't in a spot to make it out over the second. She represented and although the take-off spot wasn't all that different they did land better...and then VV said no. So here's where BM had to tell her afterward that 'GO' is the only option. IMHO, both of her uses of the whip were fair. At that point she was only schooling - perhaps she realized that VV had been going hard left and she had used the whip on the right side initially then decided it was better to reinforce it on the other side? We'll never know - but it's a hard world at the GP level and VV had to come out of that course with more belief that she should/could/can go where BM points her.

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                                • #36
                                  Interesting that no one has brought forward that just "maybe".. the horse was over-prepped... the mare jumped a foot over each fence... and was note quite "right"...

                                  To me- that screams a horse that was over-prepped... WAY too scared to potentially touch something- or even get close to it!

                                  Just a thought... Oh, and please.. don't give the "it doesn't happen that way..." or "she would never do that"...

                                  It's just the reality of it, most of them do it before big classes...
                                  Proudly living in my "let's save the world bubble"!

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                                  • #37
                                    Did no one else notice that (as I saw it) the horse slipped just a little bit on the turn to the jump which was fairly tight. The second one might have been rider error, since she took exactly the same line. It could also have been a dirty stop, or felt like one, and using the bat was called for to let the horse know that stopping isn't acceptable.
                                    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                                    Thread killer Extraordinaire

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                                    • #38
                                      Can anyone point out to me where she used the crop in her right hand after the stop? I just watched it several times and only see her use it as soon as she stops behind her left leg, and again behind her left leg 2 strides after cantering away. Doesn't seem too excessive (or "whacking the everloving sh!t") to me.

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                                      • #39
                                        Or underprepped, jumpingmaya. Hard to know. They may have gone a bit light on the prep work, wanted to keep her fresh for 3+ hard days of jumping, so didn't tire her out a bit on the flat to the point they might for a Sunday GP. I know when I take my jumpers somewhere and go light on day 1 anticipating a week of showing, they jump the tar out of everything and are much more distractable. It is easy for a careful horse to get themselves hung up in the air if they jump up too much, which rattles them and keeps them from getting through combinations.

                                        By day 3 they might as well be at home they are so settled in. But that first jump of the week can be...interesting for some horses and it is hard to get the perfect balance of enough but not too much. Not to mention a full stadium, which can have its distractions and is hard to recreate in practice.

                                        Just to say, multiple explanations are possible when reading the tea leaves and I wouldn't assume anything the least negative. Probably just a bad day, everyone has them, rough that it was in the spotlight.

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                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by BelleOfTheBall View Post
                                          Can anyone point out to me where she used the crop in her right hand after the stop? I just watched it several times and only see her use it as soon as she stops behind her left leg, and again behind her left leg 2 strides after cantering away. Doesn't seem too excessive (or "whacking the everloving sh!t") to me.
                                          Seven strides+, for one thing.

                                          And difference of opinion-- I've never known of a need to raise a crop to head level (or even use your shoulder) for contact, usually a flick of the elbow/wrist will do. Plenty of horsemen/horsewomen call the aforementioned "the first sign of human frustration, not equine discipline." No one, from pony clubbers to FEI-level competitors, is immune from moments of frustration causing outbursts. I happen to feel the same. If you disagree, you're of course entitled to do so.
                                          A vaincre sans péril, on triomphe sans gloire.
                                          ~ImmortalSynn

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