• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Ooops - Beezie Madden.........

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    My post above was directed at FineAlready.
    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique


    • #22
      It does take the pressure off the individual team members for qualifying for the Individual - only THREE riders are allowed to compete per country individually... AND she can compete in the Team competition today and tomorrow - so, I think there is nothing to worry about. (Even though I agree with the BBC... we can all have off days, and when both horse and rider have it at once, there is no help.)

      I have no doubt she'll be fine today and tomorrow!!
      co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!


      • #23
        Originally posted by FineAlready View Post
        Some people on here and on Facebook act like she got into a half seat and grabbed mane at three strides out or something.
        You say that like it's a bad thing.


        • #24
          Beezie is a fabulous rider and one of the best, but she made an error and buried the horse at the A part of the obstacle. Horse crawled over it without enough energy to make the 2 strides so Beezie pulled her out. Then Beezie rode her to exactly the same spot. Rider error, she admits it. Everyone makes a mistake sometimes. Sad when it's in the Olympics but it takes nothing away from Beezies accomplishments and abilities. It's just so hard to be perfect at this level all the time


          • #25
            Originally posted by teddygirl View Post
            Beezie is a fabulous rider and one of the best, but she made an error and buried the horse at the A part of the obstacle. Horse crawled over it without enough energy to make the 2 strides so Beezie pulled her out. Then Beezie rode her to exactly the same spot. Rider error, she admits it. Everyone makes a mistake sometimes. Sad when it's in the Olympics but it takes nothing away from Beezies accomplishments and abilities. It's just so hard to be perfect at this level all the time
            teddygirl, this is *exactly* what I saw...

            The mare is 15.2, so in order to get the (forward) two to that maxed out oxer, she needed a bigger, more forward jump at A, so that she could land "farther in". The mare clearly said "no can do" on her second attempt at B when she again got deep to A.

            I don't think anyone is saying that Beezie isn't a phenomenal rider; she is obviously among the elite jumper riders, worldwide. She just had a bad moment there, which is a shame! At least she still gets to ride for the team medal.
            "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

            "It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")


            • #26
              Foxtrot, I'm not sure how else your post could be interpreted? Sure seems like you were saying "Lamaze can pull it off with a green horse but Beezie can't because Lamaze is just plain better." I dunno, please explain what you meant otherwise.

              As for people saying that it was a bad ride in...didn't any of you think the mare was sucking back to the first element awfully hard? My view was that the distance was what it was because of that, and that most riders would have had a stop there. I have do doubt that Beezie said it was her own fault. That's just the kind of gracious, introspective person she is.


              • #27
                Definitely just a bad day for both horse and rider. Although I did think beezie looked like she got flustered coming back into it. The horse has been jumping left the entire course so she does a very small left circle back to it and barely has the horse straight enough to jump it the second time. Perhaps they pared down their warmup/prep to try and preserve the mare for the next rounds?


                • #28
                  While it looks like it was the same ride the second time, she probably did do something different it just had the same result. Sometimes that just happens, even to the best riders. In my last lesson, I kept meeting the jump half a stride off, getting too deep every time, I tried different things, but in reality had to completely change my corner to get it right, but it took me several tries and my horse was behaving. When a horse is not listening well it makes it that much harder. Sucks that the moment comes on the big stage, but it happens at times. It is so much easier to make those mistakes when your horse is being less than perfect and maybe different than normal and you have a lot to think about and do in a very short amount of time.


                  • #29
                    Fine Already - whatever words you chose to put into my sentence are yours alone - I was saying that they had (relatively) younger, inexperienced horses and were both the riders who could pull it off. I'm the last person to be putting blame on an athlete, or act witchy about it.
                    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique


                    • #30
                      Is someone blogging about the details of the SJ competition? I can't get anything live and am just getting short replays here and there.


                      • #31
                        I agree with teddygirl, Dr. Doolittle, and apparently with the BBC commentators. First one looked like pilot error to me, first and repeat viewings. And then on attempt 2, the horse said "Ain't happening, lady." Personally, I'd assume it's a LOT easier to misjudge something riding a GP course at GP speed than it is at the height/speed most of the rest of us jump.
                        Author Page
                        Like Omens In the Night on Facebook
                        Steampunk Sweethearts


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by kmwines01 View Post
                          Although I did think beezie looked like she got flustered
                          I'm not foolhardy enough to question Beezie's riding skill or anything like that, because we all know that she's proven that a thousand times over...

                          ...but I think you hit on the reason that there's so many raised eyebrows out there, whether people will say/admit it or not. After the second refusal, she used her crop hard behind her right leg. Totally and completely understandable.

                          But then, a few seconds later, she switched hands, raised the whip clear above her shoulder (almost to head level) and whacked the everloving sh!t outta the mare behind her left leg. This was done several strides after the mare had already begun cantering away from the fence, and several seconds after already disciplining her on the rightward side.

                          .......sorry, but that's uncalled for. A whip raised to your head? That's just anger and frustration, not constructive discipline. I don't care who you are. Beezie Madden, George Morris, Jesus Christ, or anyone else-- no reason to behave like that.

                          And while I'm not going to speak for the OP, I would be willing to bet that that's what she meant by the "off the Christmas list" comment.

                          Then again, I'd also bet she probably regrets it... and we've all been there before. So not hating on Beezie, just pointing out something that I thought some of you also feel but have yet to voice.
                          A vaincre sans péril, on triomphe sans gloire.


                          • #33
                            I don't think you can judge that. Breezie is one of the most unemotional people I know, particularly with her horses. None of us know if this has been an issue in the past that may have been threatening to recur. Not being the trainer, or an insider, I think making that judgement is a stretch. The officials didn't call her on it, so I trust her judgement.


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by lauriep View Post
                              Breezie is one of the most unemotional people
                              Awesome... but if you're attempting to make the case that that somehow renders her immune to reflexively/mistakenly lashing out in frustration instead of construction, as all riders have been guilty of at some point, then we'd most certainly have to agree to disagree on that.

                              That said, I'm not here to argue. So I'll just say my bit and leave it at that. Be well.
                              A vaincre sans péril, on triomphe sans gloire.


                              • #35
                                At the level that BM rides there has to be a belief that the horse is going to GO. VV was jumping horribly yesterday (keep in mind it's all relative) and she seemed almost unridable. I wasn't sure how BM stayed in the tack after the first jump when they landed in a heap. They met the entry to that combination too deep and on the first pass BM realized they weren't in a spot to make it out over the second. She represented and although the take-off spot wasn't all that different they did land better...and then VV said no. So here's where BM had to tell her afterward that 'GO' is the only option. IMHO, both of her uses of the whip were fair. At that point she was only schooling - perhaps she realized that VV had been going hard left and she had used the whip on the right side initially then decided it was better to reinforce it on the other side? We'll never know - but it's a hard world at the GP level and VV had to come out of that course with more belief that she should/could/can go where BM points her.


                                • #36
                                  Interesting that no one has brought forward that just "maybe".. the horse was over-prepped... the mare jumped a foot over each fence... and was note quite "right"...

                                  To me- that screams a horse that was over-prepped... WAY too scared to potentially touch something- or even get close to it!

                                  Just a thought... Oh, and please.. don't give the "it doesn't happen that way..." or "she would never do that"...

                                  It's just the reality of it, most of them do it before big classes...
                                  Proudly living in my "let's save the world bubble"!


                                  • #37
                                    Did no one else notice that (as I saw it) the horse slipped just a little bit on the turn to the jump which was fairly tight. The second one might have been rider error, since she took exactly the same line. It could also have been a dirty stop, or felt like one, and using the bat was called for to let the horse know that stopping isn't acceptable.
                                    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                                    Thread killer Extraordinaire


                                    • #38
                                      Can anyone point out to me where she used the crop in her right hand after the stop? I just watched it several times and only see her use it as soon as she stops behind her left leg, and again behind her left leg 2 strides after cantering away. Doesn't seem too excessive (or "whacking the everloving sh!t") to me.


                                      • #39
                                        Or underprepped, jumpingmaya. Hard to know. They may have gone a bit light on the prep work, wanted to keep her fresh for 3+ hard days of jumping, so didn't tire her out a bit on the flat to the point they might for a Sunday GP. I know when I take my jumpers somewhere and go light on day 1 anticipating a week of showing, they jump the tar out of everything and are much more distractable. It is easy for a careful horse to get themselves hung up in the air if they jump up too much, which rattles them and keeps them from getting through combinations.

                                        By day 3 they might as well be at home they are so settled in. But that first jump of the week can be...interesting for some horses and it is hard to get the perfect balance of enough but not too much. Not to mention a full stadium, which can have its distractions and is hard to recreate in practice.

                                        Just to say, multiple explanations are possible when reading the tea leaves and I wouldn't assume anything the least negative. Probably just a bad day, everyone has them, rough that it was in the spotlight.


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by BelleOfTheBall View Post
                                          Can anyone point out to me where she used the crop in her right hand after the stop? I just watched it several times and only see her use it as soon as she stops behind her left leg, and again behind her left leg 2 strides after cantering away. Doesn't seem too excessive (or "whacking the everloving sh!t") to me.
                                          Seven strides+, for one thing.

                                          And difference of opinion-- I've never known of a need to raise a crop to head level (or even use your shoulder) for contact, usually a flick of the elbow/wrist will do. Plenty of horsemen/horsewomen call the aforementioned "the first sign of human frustration, not equine discipline." No one, from pony clubbers to FEI-level competitors, is immune from moments of frustration causing outbursts. I happen to feel the same. If you disagree, you're of course entitled to do so.
                                          A vaincre sans péril, on triomphe sans gloire.