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A message to the Halt Police of COTH

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  • A message to the Halt Police of COTH

    For your information Anky had the lowest score for her Halt of all 15 riders.

    But she had so much high scores (10-9-8) specialy in the movements which had a coefficient of 2 and 4, that she could simple handle these scores. Or even better maybee she deliberatly toke this low score for the Halt knowing that Salinero wouldn't be annoyed.

    On YouTube I see so many rides where only the Halt scores a 9 and the rest 4's and 3's.

    Think of that.

    Theo

  • #2
    Some of us amatoor horsemen think the halt is a pretty basic and pretty essential thing to teach horses, no matter their discipline. So, some of us, following that line of logic, think that horses trained to the hilt and competing at the highest levels ought to be better at halting than our mere plugs.

    Comment


    • #3
      Salinero is a spitfire that a lot of us amateurs couldn't possibly ride. I humbly bow down to Anky and her ability. That is some horse. So her decision to blow the halt in order to keep him happy for the other movements was probably heavily discussed and it was decided to blow those 2 scores.
      Does it prove that the horse isn't harmonious and listen to its rider? Yeah, probably. But dressage seems to be going the way of artsy-fartsy rather than harmonious communication between horse and rider. Like when ice skating removed the compulsaries. It has now morphed itself into a show of stage presence.
      Even duct tape can't fix stupid

      Comment


      • #4
        I had a mare that I evented and did dressage shows with, with some degree of success, and I can safely state that she was much less horse than Salinero. However, one year at the local recognized show, after the horse had retired from eventing and was in her late teens, something happened just as I was starting a test, and had halted at X and saluted. Next thing I knew, I was galloping back toward A. I managed to stop and resume the test before being eliminated, though the test was pretty ugly (got smiley faces and comments about my passage and canter half pass; alas, it was a second level test ...).

        Although the horse went back to doing respectable tests in every other way, I was *never* able to sustain a halt at X with that horse again, and it was not a situation that I was able to duplicate in practice at home.

        There was a lot of speculation from people who had seen the episode about what exactly it was that happened with my horse, but we never nailed down whether it was the poorly placed overhead flags in the arena, the kids playing soccer on the upper level of the grandstands, or something about the late afternoon sunlight. Whatever. And this was a mare famous for being a baby-sitter for young horses on their first outings, for being a rock-solid adult-amature horse, for being sensible and kind and easy.

        Horses are horses. If Anky can do well enough on the rest of the test to fluff the final halt, more power to her. But I can understand her decision not to prolong the agony for her horse at the end of her freestyle. If you squint just the right way when you watch, you can imagine that she's just saluting with both hands ... even though the halt is not maintained .
        "One person's cowboy is another person's blooming idiot" -- katarine

        Spay and neuter. Please.

        Comment


        • #5
          The lack of a halt wasn't the only thing I had issue with. Salinero always looks tense and never quite "through".

          Comment


          • #6
            Proud Member of the Halt Police

            Theo,
            Why did Anky not tip her head (faux halt) to at least acknowledge the judges, before exiting the arena?
            I truly believe that she made no effort to give a final halt & salute.
            And what were her marks....5.0,7.0,6.0, 6.0 and 7.0
            She did not deserve more than a 5.0 FROM ALL of the judges. The mark is averaged. Give her a 10.0 for the entrance halt and she should have gotten a 0.0 for the final halt as it was not preformed. That would be a 5.0 average score.The only judge who marked her correctly was the Danish judge. He gave her 5.0.

            A halt is a halt, no way to get around it unless you believe that because this is an FEI test, they don't have to do it....it's an optional movement for FEI riders.


            I am very PROUD to say, that my halts were the only mark I could pretty much expect an 8+ . I worked very hard to be straight and immobile. everything else in between was pretty much crap, but at least I began and ended my test on a good note. So please (asb) don't make light of the importance of the halt movement.

            Dank u wel

            Comment


            • #7
              Plus, a good halt is necessary to be able to sip from one's flask without spilling.

              Originally posted by Beverley View Post
              Some of us amatoor horsemen think the halt is a pretty basic and pretty essential thing to teach horses, no matter their discipline. So, some of us, following that line of logic, think that horses trained to the hilt and competing at the highest levels ought to be better at halting than our mere plugs.
              Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
              Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
              -Rudyard Kipling

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Originally posted by KWPN MOM View Post
                Theo,
                Why did Anky not tip her head (faux halt) to at least acknowledge the judges, before exiting the arena?
                I truly believe that she made no effort to give a final halt & salute.
                And what were her marks....5.0,7.0,6.0, 6.0 and 7.0
                She did not deserve more than a 5.0 FROM ALL of the judges. The mark is averaged. Give her a 10.0 for the entrance halt and she should have gotten a 0.0 for the final halt as it was not preformed. That would be a 5.0 average score.The only judge who marked her correctly was the Danish judge. He gave her 5.0.

                A halt is a halt, no way to get around it unless you believe that because this is an FEI test, they don't have to do it....it's an optional movement for FEI riders.


                I am very PROUD to say, that my halts were the only mark I could pretty much expect an 8+ . I worked very hard to be straight and immobile. everything else in between was pretty much crap, but at least I began and ended my test on a good note. So please (asb) don't make light of the importance of the halt movement.

                Dank u wel
                Anky is a woman !

                and she paid respect to the judges to invite them for a champagne party afterwards !

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by J Swan View Post
                  Plus, a good halt is necessary to be able to sip from one's flask without spilling.
                  That's too funny........
                  Damn, I knew that I forgot something!!!! I left the flask at home.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by freestyle2music View Post
                    Anky is a woman !

                    and she paid respect to the judges to invite them for a champagne party afterwards !
                    ---WTF? You think women aren't supposed to tip their heads to the judge?

                    Yeah that last part probably explains why no one ever scores her as low as she SHOULD be scored. I'm sorry but just being able to stay on a horse that is a ticking time bomb is not good dressage. Some of his movements are beautiful, but the rest...

                    If I were to just not halt in a test, I bet I would get a 1 or 2 so how on EARTH can you say she deserved 5, 6 or 7?????? Just because that's the lowest score received doesn't mean squat
                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    "There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Right on, KWPN Mom. While the (non) halts bug me, I can see how the lower score that movement was compensated by many other higher marks. I do understand that. What bugs me a lot more is the total lack of any semblance of a salute at the end of the freestyle. And yes, to me, that absolutely equates to lack of respect to the judges. The one move that occurs beginning and end of each test, weenie levels up, you would not just "lose in the moment." Besides, she doesn't say she got lost in the moment. She says, her own words, that she decided "oh, he doesn't really have to do this," because she knew she'd already won. That comment, plus no effort at all to salute the judges and just to start waving to the crowd instead, I interpret as blatant arrogance.

                      The man who retired gave a very nice salute to the judges as he excused himself (no, he didn't halt, and no, I wouldn't have just then on his horse, either. But he did acknowledge the judges). As much a fire-breathing dragon as Salinero is (I sure wouldn't want to ride him), I don't think he was as tense, explosive, etc., as that rearing Andalusian was. And that rider managed to salute.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        "But she had so much high scores (10-9-8) specialy in the movements which had a coefficient of 2 and 4, that she could simple handle these scores. Or even better maybee she deliberatly toke this low score for the Halt knowing that Salinero wouldn't be annoyed. "

                        I'm sorry...I don't generally post on Dressage....but if your horse can't handle halting correctly without having issues, that's pathetic and should not be winning gold medals. I don't care how fantastic other movements are. A halt is one of the most basic commands, and if your horse can't even manage that, then well...it's sad what wins in Dressage today.
                        <3 Vinnie <3
                        1992-2010
                        Jackie's Punt ("Bailey") My Finger Lakes Finest Thoroughbred

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My issue is the fact that the halt is a very basic and important training element and dressage at its core is training of the horse. From my vantage point, it is an example of holes in ones training. If moving up the levels in dressage is essentially a pyramid, then the base must be solid, right?

                          I'll admit that I really only follow international dressage every 4 years, but when I watched Anky's test last night I saw a horse that did not maintain his poll as the highest point and who was behind the vertical fairly often. I also felt there were portions of the test where she appeared braced against him as if she were riding the front of the horse to the back, rather than the other way around.

                          Even if it is a training method (blow one movement, be brilliant the rest) is that really the direction dressage should be going? I always thought that basic correctness was the purpose of the entire sport and by obtaining a level of perfection in that correctness, comes brilliance.

                          I watched little Headley Britannia be rewarded for precisely that in the dressage. The horse is not the most spectacular of movers, but she was through, light and up and test absolutely precise.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Even the most beautifully trained and obedient horse can be nervous. So the horse didn't halt.

                            Heck - if my horse had been in that arena he'd have peed himself, bolted, and then dropped dead from a heart attack. Wonder how the judges would have scored that movement?

                            Bleh. I don't even like Anky's style, and I think this horse needs Prozac and a different job. But the beating up on these folks is a little over the top.
                            Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                            Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                            -Rudyard Kipling

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by J Swan View Post
                              Plus, a good halt is necessary to be able to sip from one's flask without spilling.
                              Well said!
                              One of a Kind Studio
                              Fine Art Paintings, Horses, Dogs, Wildlife and anything else that inspires.

                              New convert to the cow horse world.. love my QH mare.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Well as the commentators said NONE OF HER HORSES HALT Give me a break, why not??? You can't just say its for this one horse if none of her other horses ever really halt. I like Anky but I think the not halting is BS and should have been marked down way way more, and at the end of the freestyle she didn't not salute or anything to the judges at all!! She immediatley patted the horse and woo hooed her self to the crowd and the commentators also said something about her not saluting? Thats just rude IMO. She should have been much lower on her halt scores but reputation has a lot to do with scores in a subjective sport and theres nothing you can do about that.
                                Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by KSevnter View Post
                                  My issue is the fact that the halt is a very basic and important training element and dressage at its core is training of the horse. From my vantage point, it is an example of holes in ones training. If moving up the levels in dressage is essentially a pyramid, then the base must be solid, right?

                                  I'll admit that I really only follow international dressage every 4 years, but when I watched Anky's test last night I saw a horse that did not maintain his poll as the highest point and who was behind the vertical fairly often. I also felt there were portions of the test where she appeared braced against him as if she were riding the front of the horse to the back, rather than the other way around.

                                  Even if it is a training method (blow one movement, be brilliant the rest) is that really the direction dressage should be going? I always thought that basic correctness was the purpose of the entire sport and by obtaining a level of perfection in that correctness, comes brilliance.

                                  I watched little Headley Britannia be rewarded for precisely that in the dressage. The horse is not the most spectacular of movers, but she was through, light and up and test absolutely precise.
                                  3 times Olympic Gold in a row, doesn't that say something about correctness ?. Correctness these days is showing what the judges want to see. So burn your old books and start reading some more up to date ones.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    So someone else posted that not saluting the judges at the beginning and end = elimination. Did they make that up?

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by BLBGP View Post
                                      So someone else posted that not saluting the judges at the beginning and end = elimination. Did they make that up?
                                      Nope. It's an FEI rule. Or should we put quotes around that pesky little word "rule"??
                                      "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Irony check

                                        You say there is too much politics in dressage judging, but look at yourselves - it seems some horse people have become so partisan in the wake of the AVG/Rollkur debate, they can't recognise quality movements when they see them, or else they choose to ignore them in favour of harping on 10 seconds of a 6 minute ride. This is debilitating to the future of dressage. Go on, critique certain movements of tests (so let's talk about Steffen's mistakes in the tempi changes, etc)... but stop ignoring the excellent moments that you could learn from.

                                        Halting, Saluting and bowing out.....

                                        let the judgements commence.

                                        Comment

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