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Eventing breeding

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  • Eventing breeding

    Standings after XC, just 10 points separate these top 15 horses.

    1 - Holst ------ TB - Holst x Holst
    2 - Hann ------ TB - Hann x TB
    3 - ISH ------ ISH - ?? ---- (bred in Aus)
    4 - ISH ------ Holst - ISH x TB
    5 - ISH ------ ISH - ISH xTB
    6 - ISH ------ Holst - ISH x TB
    7 - SF ------ SF - SF x SF (sireline is Trak, sire's sire was Abdullah)
    8 - Hann ------ TB - Hann x TB
    9 - Swiss WB ------ BWP - AA x AA (Sire's side is heavy AA also)
    10 - TB ------ TB - TB x TB
    11 - BSH ------ BSH - TB x TB
    12 - ISH ------ ISH - ISH x TB
    13 - Aus SH ------
    14 - ISH ------ ISH - ISH x RID
    15 - ISH ------ ISH - ISH x TB

    Seven of the top 15 are ISHs. But what's interesting is that none of them is by a TB stallion, two are by the Holsteiner, Cavalier Royale and the rest are by ISH stallions.
    In fact the only other horses sired by a TB (besides Miner's Frolic who is a TB himself) are the 3 German bred horses! In fact the German's may have the most "blood" horses in the mix.
    Is that counterintuitive of what?

  • #2
    yep..its what the german breeders planned all along. Change the format..and then win a lot!
    www.australiancolouredperformancehorses.com.au

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Drvmb1ggl3 View Post
      Seven of the top 15 are ISHs. But what's interesting is that none of them is by a TB stallion, two are by the Holsteiner, Cavalier Royale and the rest are by ISH stallions.
      In fact the only other horses sired by a TB (besides Miner's Frolic who is a TB himself) are the 3 German bred horses! In fact the German's may have the most "blood" horses in the mix.
      Is that counterintuitive of what?
      NOT all the rest are by ISH stallions and Im sure that you will find this even more counterintuitive...

      Ringwould Jaguar (Aussie rider Sonja Johnsons- AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE OI OI OI!!!) is an Australian Stock Horse and he is by Jensen's man (Quarter horse) out of Nations of Lili (TB)... now explain that one!

      Comment


      • #4
        I was thinking that after this Olympics, the Irish Sport Horst is going to go up in price....

        Warmblood types are also making their name in the Eventing world. Either upper level riders are using less thoroughbreds or thoroughbreds just aren't as competitive.
        Last edited by Ajierene; Aug. 11, 2008, 11:55 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by miggyb View Post
          NOT all the rest are by ISH stallions and Im sure that you will find this even more counterintuitive...

          Ringwould Jaguar (Aussie rider Sonja Johnsons- AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE OI OI OI!!!) is an Australian Stock Horse and he is by Jensen's man (Quarter horse) out of Nations of Lili (TB)... now explain that one!
          I am pretty sure he meant "all the rest of the 7 listed as ISH are by ISH stallions".
          Not "all the rest of the 15 top placed horses".
          Last edited by Janet; Aug. 11, 2008, 02:49 PM. Reason: fixed gender
          Janet

          chief feeder and mucker for Music, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now). Spy is gone. April 15, 1982 to Jan 10, 2019.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            It's counter intuitive for the fact that the ISHs that have traditionally dominated in eventing down through the years have invariably been by TB stallions out of ISH mares.
            Also the Germans have often been beaten with a big stick on these forums by the anti-WB crew for supposedly having the format changed to suit their "less blood" horses, yet they have the highest blood horses. The two Butts breed horses on the German team are 90%+ TB blood.

            Btw, who reassigned my gender?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Drvmb1ggl3 View Post
              Btw, who reassigned my gender?
              Someone thought you were bored with your original gender? You know...they were only trying to help...

              Comment


              • #8
                why counter intuitive, Germany has always known the value of TBs:

                top horse so far is Maruis, sire is CONDRIEU XX
                http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/EN.../H000121.shtml

                Abraxxas is in second place and is by another TB sire, this time HERALDIK XX
                http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/EN.../H000119.shtml


                What's counter-intituive is the thoroughbreds are not listed as such,
                full thoroughbreds are not recognized:

                TB Poggio II is "unknown:"
                http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/EN.../H000075.shtml

                TB Madison Park is "unknown:"
                http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/EN.../H000138.shtml

                TB Courageous Comet is "unknown:"
                http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/EN.../H000080.shtml

                not only missing that they're full TBs, but not even crediting the sire with XX so the sire line is recognized as of value.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Drvmb1ggl3 View Post
                  Btw, who reassigned my gender?
                  I'm still working on who reassigned the TB parentage and took them off the history books as full blooded TBs.

                  Makes you wonder how many ISH have TB sires that are simply not listed with XX. Or how many are full blood TBs genetically but never registered with a TB registry, but registered with ISH, or another, instead.

                  Yup, the books kept are a bit odd...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ajierene View Post
                    I was thinking that after this Olympics, the Irish Sport Horst is going to go up in price....

                    Warmblood types are also making their name in the Eventing world. Either upper level riders are using less thoroughbreds or thoroughbreds just aren't as competitive.
                    The ISH has always been up in price, they are unbeleiveable event horses.
                    Boss Mare Eventing Blog

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      yep, unbelievable is the word I would use.

                      Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post
                      The ISH has always been up in price, they are unbeleiveable event horses.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Word on the street, last year in Ireland was that the RID had gone up a bit in price, no doubt the ISH will as well - glad I got mine a few years ago !

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Drvmb1ggl3 View Post
                          Btw, who reassigned my gender?
                          Fixed .
                          Um I mean "corrected".
                          Janet

                          chief feeder and mucker for Music, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now). Spy is gone. April 15, 1982 to Jan 10, 2019.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Canadian version here - Anybody else felt that the commentary on cross country was lacking. Seemed to me that it was geared to about "C" level Pony Club, and - in Canada anyway - it would have been nice to have a x-country specialist commentating. We were dying to know the bloodlines of the hores and more about their careers, and the riders. Seemed that the research had not been done and there were only stats on the course which they could read. Hope I'm nt coming over as a real grump here, but I would think that tv viewers would be interested instead of the obvious being commented on. I could name a few commentators who would have been perfect, starting with Denny?? He always has opinions
                            Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by sm View Post
                              Makes you wonder how many ISH have TB sires that are simply not listed with XX. Or how many are full blood TBs genetically but never registered with a TB registry, but registered with ISH, or another, instead.
                              Which of the ISHs in particular are you wondering about? They all have registered pedigrees. Which ones are you questioning their parentage?

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                of course they all have registered pedigrees. But ISH is an open registry that accepts pure TBs.

                                "The Irish Sport Horse is recognized by the Irish Horse Board, as an animal of ANY breeding... For example, an ArabxTB, TBxConnemara, Pure TB or RIDxTB may all be classified as an Irish Sport Horse. But in North America, only the cross with RID blood is classified as an Irish Draught Sport Horse." http://www.irishdraught.com/aboutsh/

                                And here's the ISH rulebook http://www.irishsporthorse.com/_file...b80b27c71e.pdf

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by sm View Post
                                  of course they all have registered pedigrees. But ISH is an open registry that accepts pure TBs.
                                  I'm well aware of what a ISH is, trust me.
                                  You intimated that some of those horses were actually by TB sires, not ISH sires, but registered as ISHs. Which ones were you talking about? Name them.

                                  Or maybe you're just blowing a lot of hot air.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Where did you find the breeding of the horses?

                                    An earlier post made a comment about the Canadian commentators being a C-Pony club-ish - here in US on Oxygen, Melanie Smith (forgot last name) who is usually quite good was slightly out of her element w/ doinng the Cross Country

                                    The criteria for being an ISH in the Irish book is a bit more complicated than just being any animal of any breeding - those animals must be approved based on certain criteria and have competed to a certain level etc etc. Which is why I'm sure SM posted the link to the ISH rulebook

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Where did you find the breeding of the horses?
                                      Various different sources. Here is the list with names.

                                      1 - Marius (Holst) ------ Condrieu (TB) - Eche (Holst) x Laurin (Holst)
                                      2 - Butts Abraxxas (Hann) ------ Heraldik (TB) - Kira (Hann) x Kronenkranich (TB)
                                      3 - Irish Jester (ISH) ------ Irish Enough (ISH) - Yellow Empress(TBX?) ---- (bred in Aus)
                                      4 - Ben along Time (ISH) ------ Cavalier Royale (Holst) - Campaigner's Dream (ISH) x Campaigner (TB)
                                      5 - McKinlaigh (ISH) ------ Highland King (ISH) - Kilcimney Hostess (ISH) x Stretchwood Lad (TB)
                                      6 - Call again Cavalier (ISH) ------ Cavalier Royale (Holst) - My Woodland's Lady (ISH) x Aristocracy (TB)
                                      7 - ISMENE DU TEMPLE (SF) ------ Cabdula du Tillard (SF) - Amethyste (SF) x Quatsous (SF) (sireline is Trak, sire's sire was Abdullah)
                                      8 - Butts Leon (Hann) ------ Heraldik (TB) - Lillian (Hann) x Star Regent (TB)
                                      9 - GAZELLE DE LA BRASSERIE (Swiss WB) ------ Caracondo (BWP) - Oree de la Brasserie (AA) x Arlequin (AA) (Sire's side is heavy AA also)
                                      10 - Miner's Frolic (TB) ------ Miner's Lamp (TB) - Mighty Frolic (TB) x Oats (TB)
                                      11 - Headley's Brittania (BSH) ------ Jumbo (BSH) - Alan's Bambi (TB) x Alanrod (TB)
                                      12 - Mr Medicott (ISH) ------ Cruising (ISH) - Slieve Luachra (ISH) x Edmund Burke (TB)
                                      13 - Ringwood Jaguar (Aus SH) ------ Jensen's Man (QH) - Lili (TB)
                                      14 - Parkmore Ed (ISH) ------ Parkmore Night (ISH) - Bodalmore Lass (ISH) x Diamonds are Trumps (RID)
                                      15 - Connaught (ISH) ------ Ballysimon (ISH) - Bromehill Rogue (ISH) x Royal Rogue (TB)

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        With your question to me, are you referring to my post 9? Maybe you should go back and read it for comprehension.

                                        Once again, referring to my post 16, a full TB can be accepted and registered as an ISH. It's not mutually exclusive to be an ISH and to be 100% TB.

                                        You seem fixated on your 7 specific horses, I was not. Out of curiosity, what TB percentage do you think each of the top ISHs (off your list here, by your count 7 horses) have?

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