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Eric Lamaze rant on Facebook

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  • APirateLooksAtForty
    replied
    Originally posted by Sheasmom2 View Post
    We were there for pony club champs. The stalls are very nice, wash areas close by, manure disposal close, air conditioned bathrooms with water fountains, covered walk areas with fans, all weather walk ways all around the facility.
    Every barn had a parking lot. Arenas were fabulous. Well maintained. Jumps were very nice. I Evented at the old Essex and hotels were over 30 minutes away with nothing close by.
    Tryon is far from a slum.
    With all due respect, preparing an equine for pony club level competition is a far cry from Olympic-caliber jumping.

    Leave a comment:


  • belambi
    replied
    So, any problems we had (as in me, owners and my groom etc) were addressed as soon as possible by the organisers..following the correct channels , Through the sports chief stewards)... One of the hardest things to do at Tryon, is to get some down time.. some grazing or quiet riding out area.
    For those who were reining, any issues we had were addressed immediately.. Including the introduction of 3 nisting fans into the warn up arena... I actually competed in a wet shirt . not as the commentaters said because I was working up a sweat,, but because my warn up needed to consist of some time in the misting fan, since it was significantly hot in the indoor warmup arena.
    I do however believe that my biggest concern there was the treatment of volunteers... I was shocked... I regularly went and got them drinks and ice etc form the canteens because it did not appear that anyone else was.. These people were significantly taken advantage of in my opinion..

    Leave a comment:


  • Sheasmom2
    replied
    We were there for pony club champs. The stalls are very nice, wash areas close by, manure disposal close, air conditioned bathrooms with water fountains, covered walk areas with fans, all weather walk ways all around the facility.
    Every barn had a parking lot. Arenas were fabulous. Well maintained. Jumps were very nice. I Evented at the old Essex and hotels were over 30 minutes away with nothing close by.
    Tryon is far from a slum.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tackpud
    replied
    I am on my way home from Tryon having watched and volunteered this week. I saw this FB post last night after working the driving marathon. Eric is spot on with many of his issues - the facility is not up to par for hosting a world championship event. What spectators see and experience is light years away from what exhibitors are seeing and experiencing. The weather isn't to blame. The lack of time to prepare isn't to blame. The lack of organization and communication is to blame.

    The schedule for show jumping was brutal - Wednesday and Thursday could have been split into morning and late afternoon sessions to avoid the heat of the day. Friday could have been run in the morning instead of starting at 1:30. Other disciplines had their times adjusted for the weather - the start time for both the dressage and marathon were moved to earlier in the day for the driving horses. Vaulters went until 8 pm to help with the heat.

    The VIP lounge was not nice enough for this level of event. The elevator only worked 1/2 the time if you were lucky and the stairs looked like they were a late addition. There were boxes and cartons of unpacked stuff everywhere. Drapes covered areas that weren't finished. Many of the tv screens were not on so you couldn't see what was happening in the other rings. Tables were placed where vision was blocked by large beams. The food was ok but not what I would have expected for the price of tables. And honestly, you couldn't see the close side of the arena from there anyway. Not up to par for sure. Sponsors at this level really expect more.

    Behind the scenes there was a clear lack of information and lots of confusion. As a volunteer I could see the disorganization and hear the complaints. The place did look like a construction site and there were hazards when you were just walking around. Tryon attempted to get things done, but it didn't happen. The FEI should have inspected the site on a regular basis and planned for contingencies when things weren't finished on time. The FEI officials that I spoke with were very dissatisfied with a lot of things - both with the FEI and Tryon.

    So, could it have been better? Definitely. Were major mistakes made? Yes. Did spectators see all the issues? No.

    Leave a comment:


  • Palm Beach
    replied
    Originally posted by Moosequito View Post

    The reason LadyJ pointed out that she's a former 5* groom (not everyone reading this has been on these boards for years following/remembering every poster's username and resume, so it is actually good for her to include where her perspective is coming from) is that FEI grooms understand horse welfare in a completely different way than the average adult amateur or even lower level professional. Show jumping is different from the other Olympic disciplines. You can only understand that by actually being a part of that world, either as an FEI rider or groom. You see things and hear things and learn things that most people have absolutely no idea about. The reason the horses don't look overheated or distressed is because these teams of people know how to manage these top horses in any weather. It doesn't mean they want to, especially when there are options to schedule the classes differently.
    You are so so so wrong. There are many many horsemen who are not 5* showjumping riders or grooms who do completely understand horse welfare and can manage ANY horse in ANY weather.

    Leave a comment:


  • APirateLooksAtForty
    replied
    Originally posted by neigh View Post
    To all of you defending Tryon, have you ever been to Spruce Meadows, to Aachen, to Hickstead, or to any of the Global Champions League venues. These places are world class. Tryon is the slums in comparison.
    Exactly. Since when is it acceptable to host a horse show where there are no hotels close by, stabling is inadequate, incomplete, or miles away with no vehicle access, and there is not a single grassy/natural area on which to graze or ride a horse?

    Leave a comment:


  • neigh
    replied
    To all of you defending Tryon, have you ever been to Spruce Meadows, to Aachen, to Hickstead, or to any of the Global Champions League venues. These places are world class. Tryon is the slums in comparison.

    Leave a comment:


  • Scribbler
    replied
    I was not at WEG. I didn't watch videos, it's a busy time of year for me. I didn't even read all the COTH posts on WEG. However the majority I noticed seemed to be making serious complaints about the condition of the venue, the weather emergency, how the weather was handled, the groom's quarters, and the fiasco with endurance plus cancelling dressage freestyle. People were even wondering if WEG could survive this iteration.

    In other words, going from COTH threads it was a bit of a gong show on many levels.

    So it's not like Eric Lamaze is the only person to have some criticisms.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tiramit
    replied
    These are the large horse and human cooling tents next to the jumping ring. They have fans and misters and have been there all week.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tiramit
    replied
    [QUOTE=Moosequito;n10234665

    That's really great that all the other people and coaches and owners that you were interacting with (were you in the VIP section?) were raving and having a great time. Everyone knows to only express their negative opinions to their inner circle, unless it's as part of a carefully crafted statement like Eric's. They're not going to just unload on random public that interacts with them (I'm speaking in general terms, not saying any specific poster is just general public), or say something in a public area that could be overheard and taken out of context and held against them.[/QUOTE]

    Lol, my experience has been the exact opposite. They're very quick to complain. Particularly owners and VIPs. After all, these types of events are really all about them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Moosequito
    replied
    Originally posted by Tiramit View Post

    Where the heck did anyone say spectator safety and comfort isn't important?

    A former groom (you've said it enough - I think we all know)... So you're not experiencing it first-hand? We saw where the groom and officials' hotel was to have been built. The foundation had an issue which is why it failed. Evidently they started construction and it failed which is why that wasn't ready. Not enough time to start over. That's an engineering contractor fail.

    We've watched more than show jumping and even spent time in the warm-up and schooling rings and the horses don't look overheated or distressed.

    We've eaten breakfast with coaches and the people who work with the horses and they've raved about thebWEG. We sat and chatted with owners of the horses in the sj and they were having a blast - actually said so, over and over. Not USA.

    Last night we ate dinner inches from one of the sj medalists and not a word was said (I wasn't trying to listen, we were that close). Only positive. A team celebrating their results (5th) was at another table.

    It appears that not everyone is upset.
    The reason LadyJ pointed out that she's a former 5* groom (not everyone reading this has been on these boards for years following/remembering every poster's username and resume, so it is actually good for her to include where her perspective is coming from) is that FEI grooms understand horse welfare in a completely different way than the average adult amateur or even lower level professional. Show jumping is different from the other Olympic disciplines. You can only understand that by actually being a part of that world, either as an FEI rider or groom. You see things and hear things and learn things that most people have absolutely no idea about. The reason the horses don't look overheated or distressed is because these teams of people know how to manage these top horses in any weather. It doesn't mean they want to, especially when there are options to schedule the classes differently.

    That's really great that all the other people and coaches and owners that you were interacting with (were you in the VIP section?) were raving and having a great time. Everyone knows to only express their negative opinions to their inner circle, unless it's as part of a carefully crafted statement like Eric's. They're not going to just unload on random public that interacts with them (I'm speaking in general terms, not saying any specific poster is just general public), or say something in a public area that could be overheard and taken out of context and held against them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Moosequito
    replied
    Originally posted by FalseImpression View Post
    Another point of view from another team
    https://medium.com/@anvidiz/diary-of...o-f1d74d1914e9
    I think Eric was frustrated with the facilities mostly and the heat. He never used that as an excuse for his poor performance.
    I am glad that some athletes do speak up... yes, blame Canada as usual, blame Bromont.. at least they realized on time they did not have the financial backing to go ahead.. but I am sure Tryon made enough assurances and promises that everything would be ready... I blame the FEI for not having the guts to cancel/delay the Games and Tryon for not keeping promises... "They miscalculated the number of grooms" geeze, can't they check with previous Games/venues/Olympics to figure out the numbers?


    Agreed. Eric understands the business of show jumping really, really well. He knows that the owners of World Championship quality show jumping horses really value watching from a quality VIP section. The things that keep owners of these multi-million dollar horses interested in the sport are different from the things that keep us as riders interested. Walking through a construction zone is not something that these owners and VIPs expect to do. The things that are important to the riders are listed in Eric's post (and he left some unsaid). Many major shows (including Spruce Meadows) split classes that have over 100 entries like this so half the class goes early in the morning and half either in the afternoon or evening. There are ways to do it other than forcing everyone to show during the hottest part of the day three days in a row. That's all he's saying.

    Also, it's not Eric's fault that Bromont pulled out. Pretty sure he had nothing to do with that. Eric is (and always has been) willing to speak up when many others are not. Maybe it's because of his seniority or maybe it's for other reasons that the general public don't know about. He knows what he's talking about, though, and I'm willing to bet that if any of us had a chance to sit down, off the record, with McLain or Laura or any of the other big name riders who are there competing, they'd agree with Eric. He made a point of congratulating all the teams who competed, and said that he thinks it was great sport. If he was 'sour grapes', he wouldn't have done that. He was very complimentary of Kara and Mario. Eric has nothing left to prove, and he is one of very few people who can speak up from a place of real experience (he has medaled individually at a WEG in the USA before, and has more Olympic medals than just about anyone else in the sport). Personally, I'm proud of him for being so eloquent and complimentary while he expressed to the world how he really felt about the competition.
    Last edited by Moosequito; Sep. 23, 2018, 11:16 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ladyj79
    replied
    Originally posted by FalseImpression View Post
    Another point of view from another team
    https://medium.com/@anvidiz/diary-of...o-f1d74d1914e9
    I think Eric was frustrated with the facilities mostly and the heat. He never used that as an excuse for his poor performance.
    I am glad that some athletes do speak up... yes, blame Canada as usual, blame Bromont.. at least they realized on time they did not have the financial backing to go ahead.. but I am sure Tryon made enough assurances and promises that everything would be ready... I blame the FEI for not having the guts to cancel/delay the Games and Tryon for not keeping promises... "They miscalculated the number of grooms" geeze, can't they check with previous Games/venues/Olympics to figure out the numbers?


    Leave a comment:


  • APirateLooksAtForty
    replied
    As someone who has shown there a fair amount, I have to completely agree with serif. Until you are having to ride and prepare horses at that facility, you can't quite grasp the magnitude of how incomplete it is and not set up for horses. I have taken it off my schedule for the coming year.

    Leave a comment:


  • ladyj79
    replied
    Originally posted by Peggy View Post
    My recollection of Atlanta for the '96 Olympics is that they started early. The day of the Nstiins Cip there was a long break between the rounds.
    Yes, that seems like it would have been a great plan for this event.

    Leave a comment:


  • ladyj79
    replied
    You're a peach dude you don't have to agree with my opinion, but I can still totally give it.

    tents was the bare minimum, and they got away with it. The facility was an active construction site, Lamaze is correct, you're cool with that, others including competitors were not. The amenities were pretty rough, it's a statement of fact, you think it was fine, others did not. And you can think some aspects are crap and still be happy for your results, you can think the organizers are awful and still think your horse performed valiantly. Humans are amazing and being able to feel different things simultaneously.

    the cool thing about living, as I've also said before, is that different people think different things. If you don't want to engage with different people thinking different things, maybe a discussion board isn't the place for you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tiramit
    replied
    Originally posted by ladyj79 View Post
    It's a bit selfish to think their safety and comfort isn't at least as if not more important than your own. I agree that from an athlete/team perspective it likely feels as if Tryon did the bare minimum they could get away with. As a former FEI 5* groom, I wish they hasn't gotten away with it.
    Where the heck did anyone say spectator safety and comfort isn't important?

    A former groom (you've said it enough - I think we all know)... So you're not experiencing it first-hand? We saw where the groom and officials' hotel was to have been built. The foundation had an issue which is why it failed. Evidently they started construction and it failed which is why that wasn't ready. Not enough time to start over. That's an engineering contractor fail.

    We've watched more than show jumping and even spent time in the warm-up and schooling rings and the horses don't look overheated or distressed.

    We've eaten breakfast with coaches and the people who work with the horses and they've raved about thebWEG. We sat and chatted with owners of the horses in the sj and they were having a blast - actually said so, over and over. Not USA.

    Last night we ate dinner inches from one of the sj medalists and not a word was said (I wasn't trying to listen, we were that close). Only positive. A team celebrating their results (5th) was at another table.

    It appears that not everyone is upset.
    Last edited by Tiramit; Sep. 23, 2018, 08:20 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ladyj79
    replied
    Yeah I think some spectators might be missing the athletes/teams perspective, that just because something seems ok/good enough from a spectator standpoint it might in no way feel that way from a participants standpoint. It's a bit selfish to think their safety and comfort isn't at least as if not more important than your own. I agree that from an athlete/team perspective it likely feels as if Tryon did the bare minimum they could get away with. As a former FEI 5* groom, I wish they hasn't gotten away with it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peggy
    replied
    My recollection of Atlanta for the '96 Olympics is that they started early. The day of the Nstiins Cip there was a long break between the rounds.

    Leave a comment:


  • FalseImpression
    replied
    Another point of view from another team
    https://medium.com/@anvidiz/diary-of...o-f1d74d1914e9
    I think Eric was frustrated with the facilities mostly and the heat. He never used that as an excuse for his poor performance.
    I am glad that some athletes do speak up... yes, blame Canada as usual, blame Bromont.. at least they realized on time they did not have the financial backing to go ahead.. but I am sure Tryon made enough assurances and promises that everything would be ready... I blame the FEI for not having the guts to cancel/delay the Games and Tryon for not keeping promises... "They miscalculated the number of grooms" geeze, can't they check with previous Games/venues/Olympics to figure out the numbers?



    Leave a comment:

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