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Eric Lamaze rant on Facebook

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  • #61
    Originally posted by skydy View Post

    Expecting men and women (any people really) who don't know each other to sleep in the same tent is completely unacceptable and that is only the first issue with those accommodations. Thankfully owners and riders stepped up to keep their grooms from having to sleep there.

    That the organizers thought it was OK is embarrassing.
    OK, I will chime in here to say that when I saw a video posted on Facebook of the tent arrangement, it looked like there was a tent for men, and a tent for women. That does not make the arrangement acceptable in any way, but as far as that one point goes, it looked like the tents were divided by gender.

    I will also say that nowhere in Eric's post did I see one word about the grooms' accommodation or comfort. If I missed it, I'm sure someone will point it out to me.

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    • #62
      I loved the NBC Olympic Channel coverage. It did look very hot and the un-shaded stands were empty. But the horses and courses were wonderful!!!! The video view from above over the warm up area looked good, but I never saw any shots of the barns, VIP, or other areas. . . . Loved watching it.
      kenyagirl

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      • #63
        Originally posted by MHM View Post
        OK, I will chime in here to say that when I saw a video posted on Facebook of the tent arrangement, it looked like there was a tent for men, and a tent for women. That does not make the arrangement acceptable in any way, but as far as that one point goes, it looked like the tents were divided by gender.

        I will also say that nowhere in Eric's post did I see one word about the grooms' accommodation or comfort. If I missed it, I'm sure someone will point it out to me.
        I didn't look at the actual facebook post just the quote on this thread, but you're right, I don't see a specific complaint about the accommodations.

        I think this blog led me to believe that the sexes were not segregated, though it doesn't say it outright. https://britishgrooms.org.uk/blog/26...odation-at-weg

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        • #64
          Originally posted by skydy View Post

          I didn't look at the actual facebook post just the quote on this thread, but you're right, I don't see a specific complaint about the accommodations.

          I think this blog led me to believe that the sexes were not segregated, though it doesn't say it outright. https://britishgrooms.org.uk/blog/26...odation-at-weg
          The tents for separate genders were not spelled out anywhere I saw in print, but the video definitely showed a sign on the front of each tent, designating them for men or women.

          I did read Eric's entire post on Facebook, and I did not see one word about the grooms. He seemed to be very concerned about the comfort of the owners, riders, and VIPs. The grooms, also known as the hardest working people at any horse show, not so much. Or at least, he did not mention them.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by kenyarider View Post
            I loved the NBC Olympic Channel coverage. It did look very hot and the un-shaded stands were empty. But the horses and courses were wonderful!!!! The video view from above over the warm up area looked good, but I never saw any shots of the barns, VIP, or other areas. . . . Loved watching it.
            How the un-shaded stands looked depended on when you saw them - at times they had a decent number of people for the show jumping and at other times I think everyone was hiding from the sun under the stands!! It absolutely cleared out at every drag break. But, it was not the full house I might have expected with that many top riders and horses in one place. It would be interesting to know how many people cancelled their trips because of the storms, or were scared off by some of the challenges people encountered in the first couple of days.

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            • Original Poster

              #66
              Originally posted by MHM View Post

              I did read Eric's entire post on Facebook, and I did not see one word about the grooms. He seemed to be very concerned about the comfort of the owners, riders, and VIPs. The grooms, also known as the hardest working people at any horse show, not so much. Or at least, he did not mention them.
              That omission was rather telling, wasn't it? It's been suggested that his was a carefully measured and worded post. If true, his grooms' comfort must not have been as important as his VIPs.

              I'm working off of memory that the SJ VIP tickets were close to $5k each or something like $26,000 for a table. That covered all days, meals, bar, private indoor area with a/c and external balcony over the ring, etc. The pricing wasn't that out of the norm when one considers it was for a week. I've been to events that were more than that for a few hour evening.
              "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right." -Henry Ford

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              • #67
                Most likely because he provides for his own grooms and rented a house or condo, as many of the more experienced and well-known teams did. Therefore he wouldn't have had firsthand knowledge of the grooms conditions.

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                • #68
                  The organizers dealt with the grooms housing at the beginning of week one, which was before the show jumpers even arrived. Perhaps he didn't include the issue of the groom's housing in his statement because it wasn't an issue for his grooms because the organizers had already arranged for alternatives long before the show jumping grooms arrived, so he didn't have any negative firsthand experience with that issue.

                  First he was being vilified for what he said, now for what he didn't say.

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                  • #69
                    I think it's impossible to know the precise reason spectators weren't there but I think it's fair to say that there were plenty of reasons well beyond TIEC's control that spectators didn't arrive that would probably not carry over to a future Tryon WEG, should there be one. I get that that would be a big disappointment for the competitors, but I think it was just the confluence of many events.

                    I think it is a reminder that the FEI's insistence on seating for gazillions of people might not be the best way to choose a venue.

                    There's kind of three targets for this kind of criticism. First, the FEI, for the whole selection process in the first place. Second, the attempt to tell of the shortcomings so next time things are done better. But third, is the attempt to tear down TIEC as a future venue, and I don't think that's necessary or appropriate - with lead time and the experience they have, I bet it could handle this competition better in the future (especially in October).
                    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

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                    • #70
                      I expect that when the facility is complete, it will probably be quite nice. It's just too bad that it wasn't done in time for the WEG.

                      I also believe that everyone has the right to express an opinion about the venue as it was for the WEG.

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                      • #71
                        I think it is also kind of unrealistic to expect huge crowds here. SJ is much more a spectator sport in Europe. And plenty of American fans, like me, couldn't go for the thousand reasons we can't...money, time, work, family, farms. Pick one or all. Oh, and add hurricane (many locals in Eastern NC are still dealing with issues).

                        i would love to attend if it comes back. My DH is commuting to a temp thing and was gone all of WEG so it was impossible this time....but wouldn't be if the dates worked for me in the future.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by AffirmedHope View Post

                          This is what's funny to me about that whole paragraph. The only specific thing he said was that you had to walk through a construction zone to get to the VIP, but aside from saying 'ZZOMMMGGG ITS THE WUURSTTT EVERRRRR" he did not give specifics of why it was the worst ever. I doubt Bellissimo was serving cold cut sandwiches and tap water on plastic table linens.
                          Want to bet on that last line?? Lol!! The VIP lounge did have plastic plates, plastic cutlery, and paper napkins along with cold sandwiches in the afternoons if you missed the short lunch time. Yes - the area was away from the heat but that's about all that made it special. Oh - that and the free booze.

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                          • Original Poster

                            #73
                            Originally posted by Moosequito View Post

                            First he was being vilified for what he said, now for what he didn't say.
                            I'm not vilifying anyone. I AM finding fault with his timing and carefully chosen words delivered in a highly public setting known to froth up the masses. To me, it was an unsportsmanlike and insensitive act. He has taken attention away from all of the athletes who achieved within that same setting, on "their day."

                            He's also directed his ire toward the TIEC (at least it reads that way), when some of the issues were really the FEI. In this case the professional path is to work with the organization directly with an eye on the future, not try to create an online mob bashing what has already happened.

                            There were amazing stories that came out of this WEG. In show jumping, we had the first woman to win gold. Not only did Simone and Alice win, but they did it without dropping a single rail all week! Our own team won gold in spectacular fashion, arguably one of the most exciting finals in history. Another inspiring story was the Colombian rider who climbed from 26th to 5th by riding 2 clear rounds on the last day. Remarkable sport.

                            Add to that all of the other sports and athletes who rode in the same heat, stabled in the same barns, and had their own VIPs. The Para athletes rode day after day in the middle of the weather. Haven't heard any of them complaining. I'm fact, they seemed very pleased with the event.

                            The weather was hot - unseasonably according to the locals. Today it was in the 70s and cool. Lovely weather and a complete change from yesterday. The olympics are often held in very warm climates during summer months. Rio? Atlanta? Heck, the last Winter Olympics were too warm and had to have snow created. Compete on the day or scratch, don't compete, do less than ideal, then go online and complain. That's why it smacks of sour grapes.

                            I would have started this same thread if a USA rider had been so unsportsmanlike. Liking a rider and respecting his or her achievements doesn't mean they walk on water and should have every act or word heralded.
                            Last edited by Tiramit; Sep. 24, 2018, 08:00 PM.
                            "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right." -Henry Ford

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by fordtraktor View Post
                              I think it is also kind of unrealistic to expect huge crowds here.
                              The stands were packed for Kentucky. We totally have the fan base.
                              If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by APirateLooksAtForty View Post
                                Most likely because he provides for his own grooms and rented a house or condo, as many of the more experienced and well-known teams did. Therefore he wouldn't have had firsthand knowledge of the grooms conditions.
                                This 100% I've stabled near to Eric at Spruce and his grooms are very happy and well taken care of

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                                • #76
                                  I've been to four WEGs and one Olympics. Huge multidisciplinary events are unwieldy at best. This was way better than Normandy and in many ways better than Kentucky. Aachen is the gold standard and once TIEC is completed IMHO it will be able to rival it. As a volunteer and a spectator I saw things improving noticeably day by day, and given the short timeline TIEC has to host these games and the added challenges of weather (uncharacteristiclly wet year, a hurricane, and unusual hot weeks) I think they did an admirable job. No horse show is perfect and this one certainly wasn't, but put in context it was quite a success according to most everyone I talked to who was there, and a disaster if you weren't and were reading opinions of non-attendees posting on social media.

                                  I had a great time, and saw lots of great sport. The endurance fiasco is IMO inexcusable but I put that squarely on the FEI and not the venue. I'm impressed with what was pulled off in 18 months.

                                  It was this WEG or no WEG, I'm glad I went and I'm glad we got a WEG at all.

                                  Hindsight bad, foresight good.

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                                  • #77
                                    But you aren't a competitor. I think being an actual competing athlete gives you a totally different perspective. Nobody seems to be getting this. At the end of the day it's not about what a great experience you had as a spectator.

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                                    • #78
                                      Originally posted by APirateLooksAtForty View Post
                                      Most likely because he provides for his own grooms and rented a house or condo, as many of the more experienced and well-known teams did. Therefore he wouldn't have had firsthand knowledge of the grooms conditions.
                                      I'm pretty sure McLain Ward provides housing for his own grooms, but he still went on the record in a Facebook post saying that the tent housing was completely unacceptable. Even if he had no grooms staying in it.

                                      I'm not saying Eric should or should not have brought up the grooms' conditions. But a few people seem to think he mentioned it. I just pointed out I did not see one word about grooms in his Facebook post.

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                                      • #79
                                        Originally posted by MHM View Post
                                        I did read Eric's entire post on Facebook, and I did not see one word about the grooms. He seemed to be very concerned about the comfort of the owners, riders, and VIPs. The grooms, also known as the hardest working people at any horse show, not so much. Or at least, he did not mention them.
                                        So because he did not add one more post crapping on the horrible accommodations for the grooms nothing he says is to be considered and we must make the huge leap that he does not care about the grooms?
                                        Interesting point of view.

                                        I read it more as - Let me bring up some topics that are not all over the place.

                                        As much as everyone wants to hate on the rich people you do have to realize that if it was not for the patrons most of these things would not be happening at all.

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                                        • #80
                                          Trubandloki, are you my spirit animal??

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