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Update to Forum Rules: Criminal Allegations

In our continuing effort to provide an avenue for individuals to voice their opinions and experiences, we have recently reviewed and updated our forum policies. Generally, we have allowed users to share their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, trainers, etc. within the industry, and that is not changing.

When it came to overt criminal allegations, however, those discussions have in the past needed to stem from a report by a reputable news source or action by law enforcement or the legal system.

We are now expanding our policies to allow posters to share their own first-hand experiences involving overt criminal allegations, such as animal abuse or neglect, theft, etc., but only if they publicly provide their full first and last name along with the post. We still will not allow anonymous postings alleging criminal activity.

So, a user may now make a specific claim against a named individual or company, but it must be a FIRST-HAND account, and they have to IDENTIFY THEMSELVES. Users have always been legally responsible for their posts, and nothing has changed there, but we want to loosen the reins a bit and further allow the free flow of discussion and information relevant to the horse community.

We are not providing a free-for-all of anonymous rumor-mongering. As enduring advocates for the welfare of the horse, we want to provide a forum for those willing to sign their name and shine a light on issues of concern to them in the industry.

The full revised rules are posted at the top of each forum for reference.
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Forum rules and no-advertising policy

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Board Rules

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As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums’ policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

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Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

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The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

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(Revised 5/9/18)
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Groom's "quarters"

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  • Meydan is a Title sponsor as of yesterday (?)

    Perhaps the Sheikh can perform miracles with his enormous wealth. It's a bit late for construction. I would think perhaps RV's can be purchased.
    Of course there is no way to predict hurricanes and It sure is rotten luck. Hopefully Florence will make landfall in an area that keeps the WEG from getting the worst of the rain, though no matter where she lands somebody will suffer.

    Comment


    • Hilariously GiGi Stetler has made it known that she both offered and still has available all the RVs that would have been needed, but that given her ongoing feud with Bellissimo, said offered contract to furnish rvs for WEG was rejected.
      Let me apologize in advance.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ladyj79 View Post
        Hilariously GiGi Stetler has made it known that she both offered and still has available all the RVs that would have been needed, but that given her ongoing feud with Bellissimo, said offered contract to furnish rvs for WEG was rejected.
        I've always found it distasteful when people start bragging about their would-be "save the day" efforts if only "X" had done "whatever"... IMO, if someone is really trying to help, then help. No gold stars needed.

        It's hard to imagine that given the PR nightmare the tents have been coupled with the potential hurricane that any reasonable offer to help would be rejected.
        "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right." -Henry Ford

        Comment


        • Oh...yeah, no, go look up gigi stetler and bellissimo (and their protracted legal battles) to understand why it's not just possible it's probable.
          Let me apologize in advance.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ladyj79 View Post
            Oh...yeah, no, go look up gigi stetler and bellissimo (and their protracted legal battles) to understand why it's not just possible it's probable.
            Then why bother offer at all other than to cause public sensation? It reads less as an offer to help and more of a rival getting a dig in while others are in need.
            "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right." -Henry Ford

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Midge View Post

              When I saw the $650 a week, I understood why she had trouble keeping help.
              Hah, yes. "I was told many experienced grooms have left the industry for the summer because landscapers pay more than farms." was followed a few lines later by "What is the answer to this dilemma? That is the question. Nobody I asked had any solutions."

              Well, that and the bad attitude the whole thing reeked off. Yay for Planet Wellington.

              Comment


              • oliver4ever & phoenixfarm

                i was at WEG in Kentucky as a groom. We were in the campers 3 of us, no room for luggage except kitchen table. 2 in the bunks and 1 in bedroom. We were not provided with running water, had to use the campground washrooms or portable washrooms set up.

                Pan Ams in Toronto had RVs, much larger and provided us with water. Much improved from Kentucky.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mardi View Post
                  Any word from the US team ? Robert Dover ? Robert Ridland ? Hard to imagine Steffen Peters' long time groom and security guy in one of those cabins (security is for SP's owner's horse, not SP). There must be a good many grooms who are put up in hotels by the owners.
                  The jumping grooms for the US always get put up in nicer accommodations than provided. They do an amazing job taking care of all their support staff

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by vineyridge View Post

                    Don't they still have lockdown for the horses from a certain time at night to a certain time in the morning? Not even grooms are allowed to be with their horses during that time if the 2010 WEG procedures were still followed--at least as I remember the procedures in 2010.

                    The stables during the London Olympics had hours, but exception could be made to check on a horse late in the night with permission and an escort. Stewards would call grooms at 4am to make them come fix a blanket strap on a horse, even if they were going to be there in an hour. And they were not allowed to fix the strap themselves or let the groom come at a normal hour to fix it


                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mardi View Post

                      Interesting observations, but this one "They take pride in their work and they do it well even when nobody is looking."
                      is a view through rose colored glasses.

                      I have seen grooms - when they believe no one is looking, or no one else is at the barn - hit (with closed fist) horses directly in the face, completely unprovoked. I have seen them spray horses in the face with water, and although the horse raises his head, pulls back in the cross ties and begins to slip on the wash rack, continue to do it after being told to stop. His response ? "Horses are food. I don't care." Would he pay the vet bill if the horse was injured ? I've seen grooms walk carefully and quietly while approaching a hesitant horse in the turn out. The horse ran from him each time he came near. The groom was patient, and waited for the horse to settle. Finally the groom got close enough to snap the lead rope on to the halter. It appeared to be a lesson in quiet patience and earning trust. As the groom turned to lead the horse to the gate, and the horse obediently and quietly followed him, the groom suddenly turned around to the horse, and repeatedly hit him with the lead rope, jerked hard several times on the halter. and hit him with closed fist on the neck.. The horse, of course, backed up to get away, and the groom followed him, jerking on the halter, and repeatedly struck him. The groom only stopped when he heard my voice, yelling at him from far away, to stop beating up the horse. He had no idea I was on the property, and had witnessed the entire scene.

                      Each one of these situations (and there are more) happened with three different grooms, when they believed no one else was at the barn (early morning) or in a place where they thought no one could see them. These grooms work at a high end h/j barn, and are mostly unsupervised. They are part of the reason I will never, ever use a groom, unless it is a particular person (and friend) who is a professional groom and with whom I would trust with my own life. She stays in hotels during shows, and is well looked after by the trainer and clients.

                      There are good grooms and bad, but the bad ones keep their jobs for years because the trainer doesn't know what goes on, thinks it will be too hard to find a new one and so gives his/her long time employee a pass. Added on to this is the concern that if the groom is fired, there is risk of retaliation against the horses. Granted this is a cultural problem, but one that most certainly exists.
                      And there is a groom/barnworker that is Mexican,at the barn my mare is at that i caught doing something when he thought no one was looking...there used to be a rooster and 2 hens that showed up at the barn one day. Rooster was known to have a mean streak. Unfortunately, a stray dog or coyote, killed first one gen, then the other. So the rooster seemed lonely. I came around the corner and caught Jauquin, down on his knees, patting and cuddling the rooster, telling him he would be ok.
                      Yeah...those awful groons, and what they do when they think no one is looking...
                      . My experience with them has been very positive. They notify the BM if a horse that normally cleans up his food doesn't or one that normally keeps a clean stall looks like they were pawing/rolling/colicy. And that is several different grooms/barnworkers.
                      . Just didn't want the post accusing many grooms of being animal abusers when no one is around to go unanswered.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by jetsmom View Post

                        And there is a groom/barnworker that is Mexican,at the barn my mare is at that i caught doing something when he thought no one was looking...there used to be a rooster and 2 hens that showed up at the barn one day. Rooster was known to have a mean streak. Unfortunately, a stray dog or coyote, killed first one gen, then the other. So the rooster seemed lonely. I came around the corner and caught Jauquin, down on his knees, patting and cuddling the rooster, telling him he would be ok.
                        Yeah...those awful groons, and what they do when they think no one is looking...
                        . My experience with them has been very positive. They notify the BM if a horse that normally cleans up his food doesn't or one that normally keeps a clean stall looks like they were pawing/rolling/colicy. And that is several different grooms/barnworkers.
                        . Just didn't want the post accusing many grooms of being animal abusers when no one is around to go unanswered.
                        I agree. Mardi is hopefully in the minority. Sounds exactly like the article penned by the infamous wife of Kevin Babbington.... an elitist rant by a woman who likely cannot even get a groom to walk into her barn now.

                        Comment


                        • You obviously do not know the Babingtons. They are certainly not "elitist" in any sense of the word.

                          Comment


                          • I guess I'm in the minority, but regardless of the fact that it was an 11th hour attempted rescue move after Bromont dropped the project, I don't think it's ok to offer such a substandard event. If you can't do it right, don't do it. The games would have been better off canceled than held in a clusterf@@@ type situation, imo.

                            So, yes, I do hold Bellissimo accountable - if he couldn't deliver, he shouldn't have taken the project on; he knew the time frame. No brownie points for trying to be a white knight if you can't perform acceptably in the lists once the bugle sounds.
                            If thou hast a sorrow, tell it not to the arrow, tell it to thy saddlebow, and ride on, singing. -- King Alfred the Great

                            Comment


                            • Maybe the French grooms will invite everybody over for a cookout.
                              https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...&ref=bookmarks

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