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Groom's "quarters"

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  • #61
    From folks who are in positions to know, a few weeks ago they were discussing how much of a shitshow it was going to be (at least on the eventing side). Bellissimo has a track record of over promising and never delivering. He says has has the money to make things happens and then the money never shows up. The AECs were an indicator of that and those were just basically a western US championship.

    The FEI, USEF have bought into the lies of Bellissimo and his supposed checkbook. They sold themselves into his ideas. He has alienated other governing bodies in the past because of his actions. Too bad the USEF and FEI are also corrupt to his pocketbook.

    As for the weather.... I was competing at the American Eventing Championships in 2008 in Chicago when Ike hit the gulf coast. We had over 9" of rain overnight due to the hurricane 1100 miles away. Destroyed the XC course and resulted in the cancellation of all upper level XC (I drove 2200 miles to do a dressage test). If it hits, the CCI and CDI will be cancelled. You don't do those in arenas.
    Last edited by RAyers; Sep. 10, 2018, 03:15 PM.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by onthebit View Post
      Part of me wants to blame Bellissimo for everything that will be wrong at this WEG. But, I never thought anyone was going to be able to pull it off well after Canada backed out at the 11th hour. It's just too big of an event to plan and execute well in the shortened time frame they had after Canada dropped the bomb that they were backing out. The FEI is corrupt, Bellissimo clearly thought his new Tryon facility had more to offer than it actually had, and anyone with a brain should have known that there was no way they could build all of this infrastructure (hotels, etc.) in the remaining time before the games. I'm amazed anyone believed his promises, but the FEI wants to hear what they want to hear. They certainly don't want to hear the truth.

      So who should we be mad at ultimately? Canada for backing out too far into the cycle? The FEI? Bellissimo? All of them? Is this just further evidence that the WEG concept needs to be ditched and each sport goes back to hosting their own World Championships at a venue of their choosing?
      I think you mean *Bromont* and not *Canada*.

      FYI, they never should have given it to Bromont, they were in dept $4 Million or something like that and a little bit of research would have figured that out real quick.

      Comment


      • #63
        There was no way Bromont was ever going to be able to pull that even off without massive support from the provincial government, and it was clear way before they officially pulled out that the ship was sinking.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by fair judy View Post
          To those who believe this industry will care for their own in the USA.... read this lovely piece. https://theplaidhorse.com/2018/07/19...orse-industry/ by the Lovely Dianna Babington.
          Interesting observations, but this one "They take pride in their work and they do it well even when nobody is looking."
          is a view through rose colored glasses.

          I have seen grooms - when they believe no one is looking, or no one else is at the barn - hit (with closed fist) horses directly in the face, completely unprovoked. I have seen them spray horses in the face with water, and although the horse raises his head, pulls back in the cross ties and begins to slip on the wash rack, continue to do it after being told to stop. His response ? "Horses are food. I don't care." Would he pay the vet bill if the horse was injured ? I've seen grooms walk carefully and quietly while approaching a hesitant horse in the turn out. The horse ran from him each time he came near. The groom was patient, and waited for the horse to settle. Finally the groom got close enough to snap the lead rope on to the halter. It appeared to be a lesson in quiet patience and earning trust. As the groom turned to lead the horse to the gate, and the horse obediently and quietly followed him, the groom suddenly turned around to the horse, and repeatedly hit him with the lead rope, jerked hard several times on the halter. and hit him with closed fist on the neck.. The horse, of course, backed up to get away, and the groom followed him, jerking on the halter, and repeatedly struck him. The groom only stopped when he heard my voice, yelling at him from far away, to stop beating up the horse. He had no idea I was on the property, and had witnessed the entire scene.

          Each one of these situations (and there are more) happened with three different grooms, when they believed no one else was at the barn (early morning) or in a place where they thought no one could see them. These grooms work at a high end h/j barn, and are mostly unsupervised. They are part of the reason I will never, ever use a groom, unless it is a particular person (and friend) who is a professional groom and with whom I would trust with my own life. She stays in hotels during shows, and is well looked after by the trainer and clients.

          There are good grooms and bad, but the bad ones keep their jobs for years because the trainer doesn't know what goes on, thinks it will be too hard to find a new one and so gives his/her long time employee a pass. Added on to this is the concern that if the groom is fired, there is risk of retaliation against the horses. Granted this is a cultural problem, but one that most certainly exists.

          Comment


          • #65
            Anyone still looking for accommodations can look here: https://www.facebook.com/foothillsequestrianrentals/ Tryon Equestrian Accommodations. They say they still have availability.
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            I'm not an outlier; I just haven't found my distribution yet!

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by fair judy View Post
              That link will not work for me. I live 300 miles inland in Alabama, and have my entire life, so I have ample experience getting smacked my hurricanes. They aren't a theoretical exercise for me, thanks.


              Here is the latest from the NWS. I mean I get it, I get being worried and weather aware. I mean I live where we routinely deal with hurricanes and tornadoes and we don't get snow, we get ice. I get it.

              I DON'T get flipping out yet. Maybe it's semantics, but I think there's a line between cautious and crazy. We all land somewhere on that and it's a very personal outlook each of us takes.
              Hazardous Weather Outlook

              Hazardous Weather Outlook National Weather Service Greenville-Spartanburg SC 430 AM EDT Mon Sep 10 2018 GAZ010-017-018-026-028-029-NCZ033-035>037-048>053-056>059-062>065- 068>072-082-501>510-SCZ001>014-019-110830- Rabun-Habersham-Stephens-Franklin-Hart-Elbert-Avery-Alexander- Iredell-Davie-Madison-Yancey-Mitchell-Swain-Haywood-Buncombe-Catawba- Rowan-Graham-Northern Jackson-Macon-Southern Jackson-Transylvania- Henderson-Cleveland-Lincoln-Gaston-Mecklenburg-Cabarrus-Union- Caldwell Mountains-Greater Caldwell-Burke Mountains-Greater Burke- McDowell Mountains-Eastern McDowell-Rutherford Mountains- Greater Rutherford-Polk Mountains-Eastern Polk-Oconee Mountains- Pickens Mountains-Greenville Mountains-Greater Oconee- Greater Pickens-Greater Greenville-Spartanburg-Cherokee-York- Anderson-Abbeville-Laurens-Chester-Greenwood- 430 AM EDT Mon Sep 10 2018 This Hazardous Weather Outlook is for northeast Georgia, piedmont North Carolina, western North Carolina and upstate South Carolina. .DAY ONE...Today and tonight. Scattered showers and thunderstorms will again develop across the area this afternoon and last through the evening hours. Any storms that do develop could contain frequent lightning, heavy rainfall, and gusty winds. Some isolated severe storms with damaging winds cannot be ruled out. .DAYS TWO THROUGH SEVEN...Tuesday through Sunday. The track of Tropical Cyclone Florence will need to be closely monitored by interests across the western Carolinas and northeast Georgia throughout the week. Some impact from this system in our area will be possible late in the week, perhaps from late Thursday through Saturday, but uncertainty remains too high to be specific about the exact impacts or precise timing. Please continue to follow the latest forecasts from the National Hurricane Center.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by RAyers View Post
                As for the weather.... I was competing at the American Eventing Championships in 2008 in Chicago when Ike hit the gulf coast. We had over 9" of rain overnight due to the hurricane 1100 miles away.
                Thank you for mentioning this. Some have said that since Tryon is more than 200 miles from the coast, the effects from Florence will be only rain. Accuweather is listing the Charlottesville area (and westward) as having a "High Risk" to lives and property. Surely that includes wind too ?

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Mardi View Post

                  Interesting observations, but this one "They take pride in their work and they do it well even when nobody is looking."
                  is a view through rose colored glasses.

                  I have seen grooms - when they believe no one is looking, or no one else is at the barn - hit (with closed fist) horses directly in the face, completely unprovoked. I have seen them spray horses in the face with water, and although the horse raises his head, pulls back in the cross ties and begins to slip on the wash rack, continue to do it after being told to stop. His response ? "Horses are food. I don't care." Would he pay the vet bill if the horse was injured ? I've seen grooms walk carefully and quietly while approaching a hesitant horse in the turn out. The horse ran from him each time he came near. The groom was patient, and waited for the horse to settle. Finally the groom got close enough to snap the lead rope on to the halter. It appeared to be a lesson in quiet patience and earning trust. As the groom turned to lead the horse to the gate, and the horse obediently and quietly followed him, the groom suddenly turned around to the horse, and repeatedly hit him with the lead rope, jerked hard several times on the halter. and hit him with closed fist on the neck.. The horse, of course, backed up to get away, and the groom followed him, jerking on the halter, and repeatedly struck him. The groom only stopped when he heard my voice, yelling at him from far away, to stop beating up the horse. He had no idea I was on the property, and had witnessed the entire scene.

                  Each one of these situations (and there are more) happened with three different grooms, when they believed no one else was at the barn (early morning) or in a place where they thought no one could see them. These grooms work at a high end h/j barn, and are mostly unsupervised. They are part of the reason I will never, ever use a groom, unless it is a particular person (and friend) who is a professional groom and with whom I would trust with my own life. She stays in hotels during shows, and is well looked after by the trainer and clients.

                  There are good grooms and bad, but the bad ones keep their jobs for years because the trainer doesn't know what goes on, thinks it will be too hard to find a new one and so gives his/her long time employee a pass. Added on to this is the concern that if the groom is fired, there is risk of retaliation against the horses. Granted this is a cultural problem, but one that most certainly exists.
                  Interesting. The same kind of argument could be made against parents, spouses, bosses, teachers, pet owners, police officers, etc who abuse those under their care or supposed protection. There are bad people out there. There are people ill suited to their jobs and who shouldn't be allowed to work in a position of control over any living creature. Broad-brushing is always a terrible idea and weak argument stance.

                  The experiences of a few doesn't mean that the many, many hard-working grooms who have devoted their lives to horse care should receive sub-standard living conditions. Especially in extreme weather and under high-pressure competitive situations.
                  "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right." -Henry Ford

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Ok, so now that I know more about the situation ... it looks like there was poor planning and a lack of time to complete the project that led to the grooms being put up in less-than-ideal quarters. Although in all honesty, if it weren’t for the weather concerns, I would have a hard time getting too upset about someone having to stay a week or two in a bunk bed in an air conditioned tent while being paid to do their job. (No, it’s not comfortable and yes, they do work hard and deserve nicer accommodations. But lots of people end up sometimes enduring less-than-comfortable conditions for their job.)

                    And while I am concerned about what will happen if people are staying in makeshift structures and the storm hits, I doubt if RVs are really a great place to be during high winds and heavy rains either.

                    I don’t think this was some sort of nefarious, “well, obviously they think grooms are second class citizens and aren’t important if they are going to have them stay in makeshift quarters” thing. I just think they ran out of time, things didn’t get completed on schedule, and then they had to scramble to find an option that would keep the grooms near the horses.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      The problem with setting up a lot of beds in the same building (or tent) that no one has mentioned is that they are NOISY. People get up in the middle of the night, to pee, or because they cannot sleep, or they are checking on a horse. They come in late. They get up early. The surroundings are unfamiliar so they trip over things or need light or usually both. You are constantly awakened, even if the bed itself is comfortable. You can't come in and nap quietly and privately during the day.

                      You also have no secure or private space for your stuff, which means you need to take everything with you when you use the shower, go to the bathroom, go to breakfast.

                      Having experienced this kind of setting in a red cross shelter, there was no question that if I had to do it again I'd rather sleep in the car if at all possible. Sleeping in the back of my own trailer would be luxury in comparison.
                      If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Does this look like a race through the neighbourhood to you ?

                        https://www.tryondailybulletin.com/2...oming-tuesday/
                        ... _. ._ .._. .._

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          More than likely all Tryon will get is rain, but before you say "just some rain" think back to Irene in 2011. It devasted the Catskill Mountain region of New York state:

                          https://youtu.be/5Xgu-W4837A


                          It doesn't pay to be complacent.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by BigMama1 View Post
                            There was no way Bromont was ever going to be able to pull that even off without massive support from the provincial government, and it was clear way before they officially pulled out that the ship was sinking.
                            But it doesn't change the fact that Bromont wanted the games and was awarded the games by the FEI. You and Jealoushe are making my point for me. I'm no fan of Bellissimo, but he isn't the root of all evil when it comes to the debable that the 2018 WEG is most likely to be. It's the FEI. They are the ones that keep making bad choices. They awarded the games to Bromont when it should have been obvious that they couldn't pull it off. Bromont eventually backs out, the FEI is left scrambling to find someone to pull it off in the 11th hour. Bellissimo says that he can at the Tryon facility. But, IMO, it should have been obvious that wasn't possible. Tryon didn't have enough existing infrastructure. The only place that might have had enough existing infrastructure and also expressed any interest after Bromont backed out was Lexington, but the FEI wouldn't consider them because of the Rolex/Longines conflict.

                            Long winded point, Bellissimo isn't the party that ultimately screwed up the 2018 WEG. The bad decisions that led to this point started a few years before he was even a part of the 2018 WEG. Did Bellissimo over promise? Probably. Does the FEI have a history of going with the over promised, can't deliver solution? Yes. At least Bellissimo didn't back out.

                            Personally, I think WEG probably needs to go back to the old format of individual world championships for each discipline instead of one massive games. The financials just don't work for the WEG concept, much like the Olympics.
                            www.retiredhorses.com
                            Blogging about daily life on the retirement farm: http://paradigmfarms.blogspot.com/
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                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by TMares View Post

                              It will RAIN. And that's really all it will do that far inland.


                              Rain. Honestly, the fear mongering is a bit over the top. Buy some Dubarrys and put on a poncho.
                              haha... have you ever experienced a hurricane?

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by poltroon View Post
                                The problem with setting up a lot of beds in the same building (or tent) that no one has mentioned is that they are NOISY. People get up in the middle of the night, to pee, or because they cannot sleep, or they are checking on a horse. They come in late. They get up early. The surroundings are unfamiliar so they trip over things or need light or usually both. You are constantly awakened, even if the bed itself is comfortable. You can't come in and nap quietly and privately during the day.

                                You also have no secure or private space for your stuff, which means you need to take everything with you when you use the shower, go to the bathroom, go to breakfast.

                                Having experienced this kind of setting in a red cross shelter, there was no question that if I had to do it again I'd rather sleep in the car if at all possible. Sleeping in the back of my own trailer would be luxury in comparison.
                                Don't they still have lockdown for the horses from a certain time at night to a certain time in the morning? Not even grooms are allowed to be with their horses during that time if the 2010 WEG procedures were still followed--at least as I remember the procedures in 2010.
                                "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                                Thread killer Extraordinaire

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  Originally posted by ponyjumper525 View Post

                                  haha... have you ever experienced a hurricane?
                                  Yes. I am in Alabama as I stated further down this thread. I am approximately as far inland from the MS/AL/FL coast as Tryon is from the NC Coast.

                                  Let's see, Frederic, Danny, Erin, Georges, Opal, Ivan, Dennis, Katrina.

                                  If you know hurricanes, you know you can't know what it will do. You're in Houston, right? What was the hurricane everyone fled from in Texas, clogging up the roads to Dallas, folks dying on the interstate....only to have it stall out and do nothing out in the gulf?

                                  I am NOT saying ignore it. I AM saying, watch it with a dose of common sense.
                                  Last edited by TMares; Sep. 10, 2018, 04:48 PM.

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    A) "some grooms are bad so it's cool to make grooms sleep in garden sheds and tents" is a garbage argument only worth addressing insofar as I need to say dude, no. Just stop.

                                    b) in one week I could find and furnish rvs for every groom at weg. Organizers had two years. They suck and should be ashamed of themselves.

                                    c) yes, FEI barns at FEI events have security and hours that they are actually closed, even to grooms. So no, again, grooms can't sleep there. If they could rest assured they would make themselves a comfortable room, probably with a wet bar haha. So regardless of what you did way back when or what you see (or hear about) at whatever shows you go to, no, again, FEI grooms are not and cannot and do not sleep in stalls in the barns.

                                    d) grooms deserve better than this. If you don't understand why, probably no one is going to be able to make you understand. It's who you are as a person.
                                    Let me apologize in advance.

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      Originally posted by ladyj79 View Post
                                      A) "b) in one week I could find and furnish rvs for every groom at weg. Organizers had two years. They suck and should be ashamed of themselves.
                                      So call up Bellissimo and offer to take on that task. Or is your boasting just a bunch of puffery?

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Originally posted by DownYonder View Post

                                        So call up Bellissimo and offer to take on that task. Or is your boasting just a bunch of puffery?
                                        There is no money in that for Bellissimo.....so, that is a big No. The man managed to get all the profit producing issues nailed down, but when it comes to the lowest on his CASH priority list? NADA.

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          onthebit oh I was agreeing with you. I was just saying, they should have never been awarded the contract in the first place (Bromont).

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