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Post your Feet Pictures! (AKA: Good Hoof Stuff Every Horse Owner Should Know!)

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  • slb....

    Now that I think about it, he probably is carb-intolerant. He's now on about 20 lbs of hay a day (he's a 1300 lb 16.2hh boy) and maybe 3 lbs of grain. About 3 lbs of his hay is Dengie (an alfalfa/molasses/mineral mix) to keep weight on him in the winter. In the summer he's out on pasture (not lush LOL) and less hay.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I had a horse that used to really react when the shoes were being nailed and he would be sore after shoeing. He would not react to just the pounding with the hammer so it was actually the driving of the nails. I suspected that he was very mildly laminitic in some way. Not one vet would agree with me and he was never diagnosed this way <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    KC was the same way.....we could never figure out why he was so hard to shoe (danced around, wouldn't stand, grinding teeth etc). We got the laminitis/founder taken care of. Now he'll stand ground tied to be shod.

    Bensmom: If he always gets hot nails....maybe consider glue on shoes? I used Singafoo shoes on KC (we used heartbars, but they also come in eggbar and regular)....a complicated process to get them on. But, they lasted a full 6-8 weeks without a thrown shoe (this was a horse turned out in heartbars without bell boots ). This gave his hoof wall the chance to heal and thicken so he can have shoes nailed on (with the smallest nails my farrier could find). Either way....I'd say no blood should be drawn. His toes must have been cut too short.

    This thread is amazing.....



    • OK, I'm back from my xray/farrier excursion (this from the Rhodey thread a while back). Will try to obtain the digital xrays to post here.

      My horse's coffin bones in both front feet were nearly flat, instead of the 3-5 degree angle they should be at. He's pretty lame at the moment.

      We drew lines on the xrays to dictate where the breakover point should be (just like much discussion on this thread, further back towards the front of the coffin bone than his too-long toes had had it before).
      Keep in mind this is a HUGE horse with HUGE feet; we brought the shoe back 2 cms!!! and rolled the toe.
      Left room at the heel for the heel to grow down to meet the shoe.
      Vet felt that wedges would only crush the heel structures more, particularly given how big my guy is.
      He wanted Natural Balance shoes, but the farrier said they didn't come big enough, so he did his best to recreate the shape and balance with what he had.
      Interesting side note -- vet said the medial/lateral balance was nearly perfect, which surprised him given our other problems.
      We're now doing shockwave up through the frog and down from the bulb of the heel to see if we can alleviate discomfort in the areas that were getting crushed by the coffin bone/heels.

      I'll try and follow up with the xrays; does this make sense so far?
      The big man -- my lost prince

      The little brother, now my main man


      • Rhodey got redone yesterday. He has square toes (much shorter) now, and square toe shoes to match. I guess that's a good thing.

        Will photograph this week.

        Robby (just in from Mardi Gras)

        "Don't mince words, don't be evasive
        Speak your mind, be persuasive"
        When blood is the beverage of choice, the sharpest fangs feed first.


        • Oh man...you guys had your own foot thread going and didn't invite me?

          Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *
          December 13 - National Day of the Horse!
          Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *


          • Hey kids...found this interesting article on trimming to the live sole plane/high heels at the AFA site. This will be of interest to those who have underrun heels, dished toes, and parallel hoof walls/pastern angles.

            Uniform Sole Thickness. Oh well, everyone has to have their own name for stuff. otherwise it wouldn't be their unique idea

            Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *
            December 13 - National Day of the Horse!
            Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *


            • Thank you so much! Is there anything I can do without the farrier? I don't think he's a very experienced farrier and doesn't speak english. What do I tell him if I can find a translator?

              Again, my horse and I thank you.

              No two smart men ever agree on anything -Harry Truman
              You don't throw a whole life away just because its a little banged up - Tom Smith


              • Check out the online trim/shoeing tutorial at Hope for Soundness web site. They also sell a video that goes with it, a nice booklet that has some great pics to illustrate their information and a DIY trim guide video that they just released. Generally, the trim info is very helpful to most farriers.

                Forgot the what you can do part....if you just get a rasp and keep rasping off the flares and keep the heels (where the wall turns into the bars) rasped down so that they are as close to the widest part of the frog (where the straight edge of the frog starts to turn into the rounded part) as they can be. That will help a lot. The progress will be slow, but it will happen.

                Also...don't think I explained that the long toe is simply a "flare" treat it that way. Keep it backed up to the white line. Also, check out in the trim tutorial how they rasp from the toe calous upward across the toe to enhance breakover. This is a primary key to getting the form back.

                Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *

                [This message was edited by slb on Mar. 06, 2003 at 04:14 AM.]
                December 13 - National Day of the Horse!
                Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *


                • slb, there was a teensy weensy foot thread on Off Course about Rhodey's mystery lameness, but we all obediently zoomed over here once it became truly a foot thread
                  The big man -- my lost prince

                  The little brother, now my main man


                  • SLB, thank for the link the the Savoldi article! I really want to see part II when he gets to the coffin bone. I hope that I will remember to look for it.


                    • Asterix....I read the thread last night...I saw that you guys came over here for more info. Can't wait to see x-rays and more pics.

                      Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *
                      December 13 - National Day of the Horse!
                      Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *


                      • Dune....unfortunately, I have a feeling that they may not put the next section online. We used to get the AFJ, but they got a new publisher and we stayed with the old one, so we won't be getting the hard copy of the article either. They may be using that as a comeon for new subscribers.

                        Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *
                        December 13 - National Day of the Horse!
                        Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *


                        • For those dealing with long toes (flares) and underrun or long heels, here is a great site that gives instructions for trimming. This site is maintained by an ex-Strasser trimmer who turned in her certificate after a few months of applying the Strasser trim in the field. She does a nice job of explaing balanced trimming for owners. BTW, the trim would be the same, barefoot or shod, except that you can't scoop the quarts for a shod horse.
                          Barefoot for Soundness

                          Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *
                          December 13 - National Day of the Horse!
                          Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *


                          • slb, I'm new to this thread and you seem to have lots of insights into foot managment. My question to you (I might have missed the answer somewhere and for that I appologize) is, where do you get all your information?


                            • WOW nmb...I thought no one would ask
                              Actually, thoughout the thread I have put in many disclaimers and there was a couple of inferences of where I get my info. But, you have asked a very valid question, so for the record here are my some of my sources:

                              I am a farrier's wife, so we have lots of "feet" discussions in our house. Hubby specializes in theraputic cases and uses his own technique which parallels Ovnicek's Natural Balance method in many ways.

                              I have been interested in "natural" trim methods for about 3 years and have tried to find every source I could to research the technique.

                              I am on several other boards that discuss nothing but feet and trimming (generally barefoot, but it is the underlying trim that counts...barefoot or shod).

                              Here are a list of some of the books that I have read:
                              Butler's Horseshoeing Principles
                              Adam's Lameness in Horses
                              A Lifetime of Soundness, Strasser
                              Shoeing in Your Right Mind, Butler
                              Color Atlas of the Horses Foot, Pollitt
                              Equine Locomotion, Back and Clayton
                              Preventing Laminitis in Horses, Mansmann and King
                              Founder Prevention and Cure the Natrual Way, Jackson
                              New Hope for Soundness, Ovnicek
                              The Natural Horse: Foundations for Natural Horsemanship, Jackson
                              Horse Owners Guide to Natural Hoof Care, Jackson
                              Understanding the Equine Foot, Jurga

                              Magazines we subscribe to:
                              Hoof Care and Lameness
                              The American Farrier's Journal
                              The Anvil
                              The Horse
                              and numerous other general horsey mags

                              Online articles at these websites:
                              http://cvm.msu.edu/RESEARCH/efl/publications.htm (Dr. Robert Bowker's research)

                              And I have these videos:
                              Horse Foot Studies Video, Pollitt
                              EDSS Instruction Video, Ovnicek
                              Strasser Optimum Hoof Form - The Basic Trim

                              In the last year there have been some great new stuff released and I expect that I will be adding to this list over the summer.

                              As for my personal experience with trimming:
                              zippo, nada, nilch...I hold the horses while hubby trims. Like any owner, I only observe and ask questions. I don't claim to have any more understanding than any other horseowner. And, I don't claim to understand much in the way of actually trimming, other than the basics that most horseowners understand. I haven't rasped a foot in over 20 years, and never took nippers or knife to one. I have little knowledge of applying shoes, but more of forge work (hubby was a blacksmith before becoming a farrier). However, I do know in theory the proper application of a shoe and understand basic use of therapeutic devices like wedges, pads, and frog/sole support. I only know from my husband's success that correctly balanced and aligned feet make for sound, happy, healthy horses.

                              Hope you aren't to disappointed....maybe you don't approve. That's ok too. I am only trying to share my knowledge and experiences. Not trying to force anyone into believing what I do. I am certainly no "expert" and find discussions like this to be exercises in knowledge for everyone. I certainly have learned from it! Just hoping that I can get others to research and try and gain an understanding of how the hoof functions and therefore how it should be trimmed to attain optimal form to accommodate that function.

                              So, do you disapprove?

                              Forgot to add...we also have a shelf full of bones and a bunch of feet in our freezer. I think that disections are one of the best ways to understand what happens under different circumstances in the foot.

                              Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *

                              [This message was edited by slb on Mar. 06, 2003 at 05:28 PM.]
                              December 13 - National Day of the Horse!
                              Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *


                              • Nope,not disappointed at all! I'm just amazed at your wealth of knowledge! You put alot of thought and effort into your responses. (I was betting you were a vet)


                                • I seem to be hopeless with this discussion group, it must be my antique computer. I can't seem to post very easily at all but I really enjoyed seeing the photos of all the feet and shoeing jobs.

                                  Thanks to everyone for all 23 pages of exchange and opinions and if you read through all of this, you might enjoy this conference we are working on:

                                  Tufts University School of Veterinary Medicine
                                  Hoofcare for the New Millenium
                                  Exploring Natural Hoofcare
                                  May 2-4, 2003
                                  North Grafton, Massachusetts

                                  Course description:
                                  An in-depth examination of the options available to veterinarians, farriers and
                                  educated owners in the correct of the horses hoof. Course will encompass
                                  lectures, panel discussion, hands on labs and demonstrations.

                                  The goal of this conference is to further explore the realities of natural hoof care
                                  and what this term means. Through lectures, panel discussions and active
                                  participant involvement, the myths and realities of both traditional and alternative
                                  hoof care will be examined as applicable to both the healthy and diseased hoof.

                                  Two Luncheons and a Saturday Night Kentucky Derby Event will provide an
                                  opportunity for attendees to meet in a relaxed and informal atmosphere.

                                  Speakers: David Hood, DVM, PhD (Texas A&M College of Veterinary Medicine,
                                  and Director, The Hoof Project),
                                  Robert Bowker, DVM, PhD (Michigan State University College of Veterinary
                                  Medicine Equine Foot Laboratory),
                                  Mike Wildenstein, AWCF, CJF (Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine
                                  Farrier Instructor and Lecturer),

                                  PLUS Tufts faculty and staff such as
                                  Carl Kirker-Head, MRCVS, Dip ACVS - Course Moderator - The Marilyn M.
                                  Simpson Chair in Equine Medicine at Tufts University
                                  and Mike Mooney, CJF (Tufts University farrier).

                                  The course will be directed by Tia Nelson DVM, independently practiticing
                                  farrier/veterinarian in Helena, Montana known as "the inventor of the four point
                                  trim" (which makes her roll her eyes) and a widely known lecturer on the
                                  principles and advantages of maintaining sound domestic horses without shoes
                                  whenever the horse's environment and management allow.

                                  Cost is $195 per person.

                                  Contact: Continuing Education Department
                                  Tel 508-887-4723;
                                  Email susan.brogan@tufts.edu,
                                  web site: www.tufts.edu/vet/continedu.
                                  -- ================== C O N T A C T ==========================

                                  ::: h o o f c a r e :::
                                  Fran Jurga, Editor and Publisher
                                  Hoofcare & Lameness: The "Feet First" Equine Science Journal
                                  Hoofcare Online: free educational e-letters for farriers,
                                  veterinarians, therapists and horse owners
                                  http://www.hoofcare.com...the horse world's home page
                                  for hoofcare information

                                  contact points:
                                  ::ffice tel:::USA 978 281 3222
                                  :::mobile::: 978 857 5900
                                  :::fax:::978 283 8775

                                  by mail or courier:
                                  ::: Hoofcare Publishing
                                  ::: 19 Harbor Loop, Ground Floor
                                  ::: PO Box 6600
                                  ::: Gloucester MA 01930 USA
                                  Fran Jurga, Editor, Hoofcare & Lameness Journal, The Jurga Report, etc.
                                  www.hoofcare.com and www.hoofcare.blogspot.com
                                  Tweets on horse hoof / health news : www.twitter.com/franjurga


                                  • nmb...thanks for the complement....glad I'm not a vet...job description is to tough.

                                    Do you have feet to post for critique or to show us how good feet can be? We crave pics

                                    Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *
                                    December 13 - National Day of the Horse!
                                    Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *


                                    • Fran, glad you could join us...geez...you're everywhere! How was the AFA convention? Haven't seen much intput except on your site. And thanks for the Tufts info. Sounds like a good conference.

                                      I highly recommend Hoof Care and Lamness be one of bookmarks in everyone's computer. Great site full of cutting edge news, and great magazine!

                                      Two shoes up for Fran and Hoof Care!

                                      Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *
                                      December 13 - National Day of the Horse!
                                      Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *


                                      • Speaking of clinics, I should probably tell you all about the Ovnicek clinic coming up in the Northeast:
                                        * April 4th - 6th, 2003 - Gibsonia, PA: 1 Evening Lecture or Full 3 Day Clinic with Lectures, Demonstrations & Hands-on work. For more information contact Shelly at: (724) 443-0260 or e-mail: myojr@zoominternet.net

                                        For a full brochure of the event you can download a pdf at: www.hopeforsoundness.com/miscfiles/nbhc-pitpa3day03.pdf

                                        * April 10th - 13th, 2003 - Columbus, OH: "Equine Affaire" Gene Ovnicek will have 2 Lectures and 1 Demonstrations at the 4 day event. For more information about the event, please visit their website: www.equineaffaire.com

                                        Lecture 1: How to recognize Navicular Disease before it becomes irreversible.

                                        Lecture 2: Prevent Lameness & Improve Performance using Natural Hoof Care Guidelines.

                                        Demo 1: Emergency Care for Laminitis; What you can do before the vet is available.

                                        There are other clinic dates listed on their website: www.hopeforsoundness.com

                                        I highly recommend that you attend if you get the chance. I was not able to attend his lectures last year at the Equine Affaire in MA, but was at his booth when it got over, the response from the attendees was terrific. They couldn't say enough about what they had learned.

                                        Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *
                                        December 13 - National Day of the Horse!
                                        Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *


                                        • Okay- here goes. I have always been relatively satisfied with the work our farrier does, nothing outstanding, but never any problems. We live in a rural area, and most of the farriers either specialize in racking/ walking horses or do not want to come out here for one horse. Well the last time he was here, he cut my mares rt front so short that (with shoes on) her frog was touching the ground. She was foot sore for a good two weeks (first all the time, then only when the ground was frozen) Then we had a few weeks of relative calm. Due to the weather I did not ride during this time, but I turned her out and put her up each day, and she was fine. As the feet started to grow back in, they did not match. Monday (a little over 7 weeks since last trim) I go out to the barn and she is lame, swollen right leg, although not hot. Hoof is warm, not hot. It was quite muddy, and I think she twisted/ stepped funny. Anyway I rubbed the leg down and kept her in that day. By evening the swelling was down, leg was tight and she was not as lame. By the next morning she wasn't "lame", a little off, taking smaller steps than usual, but no obvious favoring of either limb. That is how it stands now. Farrier comes tommorrow, and I am going to have to say something to him- right now I am inclined to just have him pull her shoes (she only has them on the front) and leave her barefooted until I find a new farrier. Am I over reacting? The things that concern me the most are 1) the feet clearly do not match 2) the rt front frog has went from a wonderful springy triangle to a shriveled, shedding one and 3) rt coronary band- what is that??? (see pics) Anyway I am anxious for everyones opinions and advice. I am pretty upset about this and am practicing what I am going to say, so I don't start crying tomorrow
                                          Thanks, Nikki
                                          also- I apologize in advance for posting all these pics, I need help.
                                          Attached Files