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Question for judges re: automatic releases

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  • Question for judges re: automatic releases

    I'm just wondering if any of you judging equitation o/f classes see people using automatic releases, like most of us who showed in the 60's and 70's were taught?

    Although I no longer show, while spectating at a number of California shows, and in looking through numerous pictures in the Chronicle, Show Circuit and the AHSA Horse Show magazine, I must admit all I see is crest releases, right up through the recent AHSA and Maclay Medal finals winners. (Despite GM's constant comments that people should be progressing past a crest release to an auto release/following hand....) [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    I read a recent comment on this bb from someone who didn't even know what an auto release was, and it got me wondering whether many of the current trainers ever used one when they were showing, and/or even know how (and try) to teach it?

    Do any of you think it will ever come back into favor in the eq divisions?

    "Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." - Dennis Miller
    In Honor of dublin aka Dee Dee 07/24/53-02/07/03
    ~~~~~
    \"Of course, that\'s just my opinion. I could be wrong.\" - Dennis Miller
    *Go Bruins - Go Niners*
  • Original Poster

    #2
    I'm just wondering if any of you judging equitation o/f classes see people using automatic releases, like most of us who showed in the 60's and 70's were taught?

    Although I no longer show, while spectating at a number of California shows, and in looking through numerous pictures in the Chronicle, Show Circuit and the AHSA Horse Show magazine, I must admit all I see is crest releases, right up through the recent AHSA and Maclay Medal finals winners. (Despite GM's constant comments that people should be progressing past a crest release to an auto release/following hand....) [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    I read a recent comment on this bb from someone who didn't even know what an auto release was, and it got me wondering whether many of the current trainers ever used one when they were showing, and/or even know how (and try) to teach it?

    Do any of you think it will ever come back into favor in the eq divisions?

    "Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." - Dennis Miller
    In Honor of dublin aka Dee Dee 07/24/53-02/07/03
    ~~~~~
    \"Of course, that\'s just my opinion. I could be wrong.\" - Dennis Miller
    *Go Bruins - Go Niners*

    Comment


    • #3
      Also, it is percieved to be a technique that only the elite have use for...my trainer began to teach it to me back when I was in limit equitation--the idea of advancing to the Medal level (there were no minis in those days) without it would have been preposterous back then. I think the "system" we've evolved here has become so protective of the horse's mouth and back at the lower levels, that beginner and intermediate riders have very little opportunity to develop a solid base at an early stage--by the time they reach a point where they have become "successful" in the show ring, they are resistant to accepting new ideas, and the only motivation for many trainers is to keep the client and keep the ribbons rolling in--besides which, who needs any release at all on one of those 200K big eq specialists that have learned to jump without moving a muscle forward of the withers?

      Comment


      • #4
        This is an interesting subject and I hope that more people jump in on it.
        I have not talked to my new trainer about auto vs crest release. Since I haven't, I have no idea which one I am using in my lessons!! Talk about being old and just lazy enough to want to get over the fence.
        I do recall a year ago I stated that is what I planned to use if I showed again, and Hoopoe wished me luck, in a good way not sarcastic, and hoped that I would actually follow through and use the auto release.
        And we have commented that Andrew Ramsey showed an auto release in a recent COTH photo of Devon.
        I kind of flipped through the Show Issue after that and did not see crest releases.
        I guess my question would be, to the judges on this forum, would an auto release be rewarded over a crest release if the rounds were the same?

        Auto Release

        [This message was edited by Bumpkin on Jul. 07, 2001 at 11:21 AM.]
        http://community.webshots.com/user/cotswoldjr
        http://temp.hillcresttrainingnet.off...m/default.aspx
        [url]
        Starman Babies

        Comment


        • #5
          A beautiful picture Bumpkin. You have the perfect AR that is a straight line between the horses mouth, elbow and knee [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

          Being a slightly worn out Ammie, I too just want to get over the fence and around the course in the easiest, smoothest way possible.

          Here's a question, does the 2-point position accomodate a auto-release? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]

          Comment


          • #6
            On an old thread about releases it was suggested that the way we rode hunters back in the day -- i.e., galloping and bold -- was conducive to an automatic release. I learned to ride in the '60's and that was the only kind of release there was. (Except for grabbing mane!) [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] A following release was the natural thing to do when galloping across fields and jumping solid fences. (similar to eventing?)

            Then in the '70s I used a crest release to encourage roundness and softness in my hunters. I suppose having learned the auto release first makes it easy to do a crest release whenever you want, because your hands are basically independent of your body. But learning a crest release first might teach you to lean on your hands for support over a fence -- something that would need to be un-learned to do an auto release.

            "Always speak your mind, but ride a fast horse" -- Texas Bix Bender

            Comment


            • #7
              I had stated Andrew Ramsey showed a great crest release in the Devon photos.
              I really mean he showed a great auto release.
              I just corrected it, but for those of you who read it incorrectly the first time....sorry!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

              Dublin has scads of great photos, showing auto releases. If you check her profile, I believe you can get to her webpage/photo file. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
              http://community.webshots.com/user/cotswoldjr
              http://temp.hillcresttrainingnet.off...m/default.aspx
              [url]
              Starman Babies

              Comment


              • #8
                Thinkbig - after looking around the Internet for a little while, I found some photos that might be helpful.

                Short crest release:

                Beezie Madden

                Event rider

                Long crest release:

                Elise Haas

                Auto release:

                Michael Matz. This man has always had the most beautiful following hand I've ever seen. Here, it's hard to see, but he's just got a knack for giving total freedome to his horses.

                Photos from http://www.ryegate.com, http://www.armstrongfarm.com, and http://www.horsesportsonline.com.

                Cheers,
                Susie
                http://www.kachoom.com
                "That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college!" ~Homer Simpson

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  ThinkBig&Goosy,

                  Here is one of my pictures, showing an automatic release.... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
                  In Honor of dublin aka Dee Dee 07/24/53-02/07/03
                  ~~~~~
                  \"Of course, that\'s just my opinion. I could be wrong.\" - Dennis Miller
                  *Go Bruins - Go Niners*

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    How specifically does a crest release, (as opposed to an auto release) encourage a horse to be round and soft over a fence? I would think an auto release would allow a horse the most freedom to use himself to the fullest, but am I way off in thinking this???

                    "Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." - Dennis Miller
                    In Honor of dublin aka Dee Dee 07/24/53-02/07/03
                    ~~~~~
                    \"Of course, that\'s just my opinion. I could be wrong.\" - Dennis Miller
                    *Go Bruins - Go Niners*

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I THINK I use a short crest release, but, anyway; here are two pics showing my release. And, yes, I know my eq horribly sucked, but those were taken a little over a year ago. (June 2000)
                      *********
                      We ride and never worry about the fall ..
                      I guess that's just the cowboy in us all.
                      (Tim McGraw, "The Cowboy in Me")

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Here's an old pic of a green horse we got off the track in the'70s. Maybe my crest release didn't help but it sure didn't hurt either!
                        [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
                        ...Think I finally got the pic uploaded...

                        "Always speak your mind, but ride a fast horse" -- Texas Bix Bender

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I learned to ride and jump in the early '70s. I was taught an automatic release from the start. We didn't call it that because that was all there was. It was just a release. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

                          Anyway, I'm attaching a photo of the great rider Bill Steinkraus riding Bold Minstrel in 1967. His style was what I aspired to, but never made. The picture is from his book "Riding and Jumping," and all photos in that book have the riders with beautiful automatic releases going over big fences.
                          People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... timey wimey... stuff.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I learned to ride in the 70's and early 80's as a junior. I started with an automatic release which is evident in a snapshot of me jumping my appaloosa mare over a 4'ft vertical in our pasture--I was 9 years old and my stepdad had just built me some jump standards, with 1' height increments [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] (if I can find the box of photos I will try to get it up here)

                            Then I started to get some real riding instruction and I learned the crest release and later the rotating release (watch a GP sometime and you will see it at verticals--pull back on takeoff to get the knees up and then a big release to get the hind-end up and over).

                            Now I am a moment away from elder ammy status and I am learning the automatic release by necessity. I have a 4 year old who only jumps if you hold onto his face--ski on it, he likes it. If you soften at the base, he will stop, which means no grabbing mane just in case when approaching scary things you know he is going to overjump by 3 feet. So I have been trying to get the hang of the auto release and it's fun. What I am finding is hard is that I don't have the back/stomach muscles that I need to hold my body up to do it perfectly. I guess I will have to start hitting the gym... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]

                            By the way, great picts Dublin and Bumpkin! And thanks Kachoo and Just_Me for the research!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I just noticed that I have reverted back to a more automatic release since my balance and timing have finally returned. I seem to keep a feel of my horses mouth in the air but I notice that my hands appear to be in a crest release, strange. Here is a pic over an X where they are a little more correct.
                              www.clospepe.com

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Dublin, your pix has the most beautiful auto release I've ever seen! Why don't you mail it to Practial Horseman's Jumping Clinic?
                                Beezie's horse's knees are to his eyeballs! WOW Could that style clean up in the working hunter classes?

                                Also, how can I learn how to do an auto release? I'm still on the crest release, but I'd like to learn how to do the auto.

                                http://www.dmtc.com/dmtc98/Pedigree/ you can look up you Thoroughbred's Pedigree with photos 9 Genrations back!
                                Men come and go, but my horse will always love me!
                                "Common sense is so rare nowadays, it should be classified as a super power."-Craig Bear Laubscher

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I just found another great auto release photo from Steinkraus' book. This Kathy Kusner riding Aberali in 1967. Sorry that the photo quality is not better, but the picture says it all. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
                                  People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... timey wimey... stuff.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Wow, the first two pics that Kachoo posted were...WOW!

                                    http://pub51.ezboard.com/fhorseoncoursefrm5
                                    Junior Clique!

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      George Morris has recently admitted he is responsible for popularizing the crest release at the expense of the auto but his motives were pure in starting it.Most amateur and child riders aren't strong enough to not interfere with the horse. The crest release may not be classic but a mistake with an auto release will slam the horse every time. The crest release is always safe. I would imagine an accomplished rider with an auto release would tie well up in the eq. but see far too many at the shows trying to do it at the expense of the horse. Again it is an advanced thecnique left for the advanced rider.
                                      When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                      The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Just_me, do you know the height of the fence in that pic?

                                        YIKES. Don't think it would be me. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
                                        *********
                                        We ride and never worry about the fall ..
                                        I guess that's just the cowboy in us all.
                                        (Tim McGraw, "The Cowboy in Me")

                                        Comment

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