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Developer proposes moving horses' graves... TOPIC MORPH TO LAND CONSERVATION

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  • Developer proposes moving horses' graves... TOPIC MORPH TO LAND CONSERVATION

    http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky...l/10210557.htm

    Now, I have to tell you. I can't stand Hamburg Pavilion. It is the most horrible shopping venue in the area and going there is more of a chore than cleaning behind the toilet. It's become even more fun since the developers have dropped a bunch of plastic-coated snout houses in the immediate vicinity.

    I guess it's better they move the horses' remains than build a WalMart or whatever over them. Still...
    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." ~ Jack Layton
  • Original Poster

    #2
    http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky...l/10210557.htm

    Now, I have to tell you. I can't stand Hamburg Pavilion. It is the most horrible shopping venue in the area and going there is more of a chore than cleaning behind the toilet. It's become even more fun since the developers have dropped a bunch of plastic-coated snout houses in the immediate vicinity.

    I guess it's better they move the horses' remains than build a WalMart or whatever over them. Still...
    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." ~ Jack Layton

    Comment


    • #3
      This is depressing. Sprawl is a plague, and it's horrible to see what's happening to beautiful countryside here on the East Coast - Virginia, southeastern PA...

      And to top it off with moving graves of great racehorses so you can build a mall, and then planting them in the place so folks can gawk at them while eating Chik-Fil-A's and Cinnabons

      Check out the Equestrian Land Conservation Resource...is a great land conservation organization: http://www.elcr.org/.
      "I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.

      Comment


      • #4
        Anyone else feel that there are just too many humans in the US?

        The saddest parts of that article are the 3300+ homes being built and the fact that this family is already rich from land sales and ground leases. I guess you can't have too much, even if it means destroying your heritage and moving the graves of champions.
        www.sandbarequinetransport.com

        Proud member of the ILMD[FN]HP and Bull Snap Haters Cliques

        Comment


        • #5

          Its so sad...Lexington was so pretty when I lived there. Soon it will look like any other city.

          Comment


          • #6
            Short term profit wins again.

            Comment


            • #7
              They want to integrate the graves so they are more accesible to the public? What are they going to do? Put them in the toy aisle next to the Breyer display?
              Another reason to dislike developers. Just how many Wal-marts do we really need in the world.


              ..and I agree, too many people in the world too.
              ____________________________
              “Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.”
              Dave Barry

              Comment


              • #8
                I HATE development with a passion. Especcially when it's like this. People don't seem to realize that once land is gone, it's gone forever.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  You would be stunned at how little public outrage this seems to stir in this area. I think the folks around here have long ago given up on Hamburg. Money talks. Loudly.

                  Now, I would be REALLY interested in seeing what might happen should the powers-that-be over at Calumet decide it is time to slice-and-dice that primo piece of real estate up. After all, it sits right next to Keeneland. It is an "icon." The white fences are a landmark. Still, it is privately owned.

                  On a positive note, there is an underswell of support for infill development - converting tobacco warehouses (long empty) to retail or apartments, that type of thing. Now, if only WalMart would open up a downtown store. That would definitely do the trick, wouldn't it?

                  And I'm wondering, are those horses in coffins? What exactly would they be digging up? Or would they just be moving the markers? And I repeat everyone else's question - where on earth do they think they are going to move them to? Outside of State Line Tack, right next to Barnes and Noble? In the median of one of the hopelessly poorly-planned roads?
                  "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." ~ Jack Layton

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hitchinmygetalong:
                    And I'm wondering, are those horses in coffins? What exactly would they be digging up? Or would they just be moving the markers? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    I wondered that too...especially horses buried in the early 1900's. I understand the horse historical significance, but the developer IS the farm owner (if I am reading the article right) so I guess if he doesn't care about his family's horse cemetary, there isn't much the "public" can do. I guess he feels people will enjoy the "graves" more by a sitting area/park setting rather than covered by asphalt in the middle of a parking lot ("here kids lies a famous racehorse right below our feet").

                    Sprawl & development are huge issues by us. People want to blame the devloper, but let's look at the farmer--he's the one selling the land & laughing all the way to the bank. We call it "over night millionaire syndrome" & it's fairly contagious once one farmer hears what the farmer down the road sold for.
                    "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Farmers don't have much of a choice when they've been planned and zoned out of business. It doesn't matter what you want to do with your land or how much you want to preserve it. Once the big boxes have locked and loaded - you and your community are dead. Period. No going back.

                      Say goodbye to your local hardware store, dress shop, and decent quiet life, and say hello to "Made in China", streets named after the farms that used to be there, McMansions, lattes and gridlock.

                      Welcome to the 21st century. Pop a pill, get a book on tape for the 3 hour commute, live on credit cards, have a starter marriage, your own therapist, and a Botox party. Hey - it's the American way...
                      Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                      Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                      -Rudyard Kipling

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Here are the graves to be moved

                        Images: Grave stones at Hamburg Place

                        HAMBURG PLACE BURIALS:

                        John Madden burials:
                        Thoroughbred Stallions:
                        Ogden (c. 1894-1923)
                        Plaudit (c. 1895-1919)
                        Sir Martin (c. 1906-1930)
                        Star Shoot (c. 1898-1919)

                        Thoroughbred Broodmares:
                        Ida Pickwick (f. 1888-1908)
                        Imp (f. 1894-1909)
                        Lady Sterling (f. 1899-1920)
                        Miss Kearney (f. 1906-1925)
                        Princess Mary (f. 1917-1926)

                        Standardbreds:
                        Hamburg Belle
                        Major Delmar
                        Nancy Hanks 1886
                        Silicon
                        Siliko

                        Polo Pony:
                        Springtime

                        Preston Madden burials:
                        Thoroughbred Stallion:
                        T. V. Lark (c. 1957-1975)
                        Thoroughbred Broodmare:
                        Pink Pigeon (f. 1964-1976)

                        See also: Thoroughbred Times ("Development would move Kentucky Derby winner Plaudit’s grave")

                        excerpts:

                        Further development on land that housed the expansive Hamburg Place on the southeast portion of Lexington would require that the gravesites of 18 Thoroughbreds, including 1898 Kentucky Derby winner Plaudit, be moved to make way for a Wal-Mart and Home Depot

                        John Madden founded the farm as a Standardbred operation and five of the horses buried in the cemetery are Standardbreds, along with one poly pony. The Thoroughbreds buried in the cemetery include 1961 champion turf horse and leading sire T. V. Lark and one of his daughters, stakes winner Pink Pigeon.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Awww....
                          You know - I was just thinking that we shouldn't be surprised that a country that allows development on major battlefields - where thousands of soldiers died horrible deaths - would approve of moving mere horse's graves.

                          No respect for the dead, that's for sure.
                          Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                          Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                          -Rudyard Kipling

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Sprawl & development are huge issues by us. People want to blame the devloper, but let's look at the farmer--he's the one selling the land & laughing all the way to the bank. We call it "over night millionaire syndrome" & it's fairly contagious once one farmer hears what the farmer down the road sold for. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


                            OK, I have to take a HUGE exception to that comment. You need to do some homework. As J. Swan points out, farmers are often forced out by encroching development. What if your farm was suddenly surrounded by Walmart and the condo association, and the neighbor kids think its great to taunt your horses and tresspass on your property?

                            But, its way more than this. Prices are often not enough to cover expenses. You think the cost of groceries are high, its generally because of the middleman. Many times farmers are only making slightly above cost of production.

                            Further, the average age of a farmer has increased every year. I believe median age for a farmer is now somehwere around 60. Its not uncommon for said farmer to have children who don't want to take over the business. Would you still be in a labor intensive industry at 60, 70?

                            Add in the fact that animal rights organizations sink in their teeth whereever they can. The Government makes rules to the point of exasperation, which makes it difficult,expensive, and stressful for farmers to get any work done.

                            The towns get their pound of flesh by requiring many farms to pay exorbitant property taxes because they view the land owner as a rich source of revenue.

                            Insurance costs are horrible, ever see the premiums for large farming equipment?

                            So, what you have is an average population of older people in a very labor intensive job, who are taxed and regulated to death, underinsured and under paid, often taunted and usually blamed for every problem under the sun. They are fighting a tough battle and they know it.

                            And, once they make the choice to give up, do you expect them to take a lesser amount for their land? Especially since this land is often multigenerational, and probably their bigeest (or only) asset for retirement.

                            I have personally seen, farmers who have been forced out for various reasons, and many of them WEPT when they gave up their farms. Having seen a 75 year old man howl in dispair made me ashamed that we as citizenss can let such thing happen to the people who feed and cloth us.

                            I long ago joined the movement which has been promoting purchase of development rights to save active farms from destruction, and I can tell you that there are many farms who have applied for this, and have not yet been purchased because the STATE won't release the funding for the programs. The farmers are trying to save the land, but can't stay afloat long enough to make it into the program.

                            I definately disagree with your thoughts on "millionare" farmers.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              There are even programs trying to match young aspiring farmers to older farmers - just trying to keep the small farm going.

                              The PDR program is great, as are agricultural and forestal districts, conservation easements - there are a million tools to preserve land.

                              But heck - in Virginia a locality doesn't have the right to determine its own growth. Stupid Dillon Rule. Comprehensive plans are challenged constantly. Might as well not have one.

                              It doesn't matter that a person wants to farm, and keep his land, and live a rural life - warts and all. And it doesn't matter that many in the community feel the same way.

                              Once you have been targeted, you're done. You'll be forced out. You become an anachronism. You can't pay the taxes, farming equipment is atrociously expensive, regulation is killing you - and you work killer, backbreaking days, have to be part veterinarian, mechanic, plumber, accountant, etc.

                              Every time I see a sign for an auction - I want to cry. Because I know what's happened.
                              Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                              Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                              -Rudyard Kipling

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Thought I would share this information for all to see.
                                A few paragraphs from the Farmland at risk “white Paper” published by the Working Lands Alliance; (the link for the entire paper is http://www.workinglandsalliance.org/...te%20Paper.doc)

                                *******************
                                As development pressure increases in Connecticut, land prices rise to the point where the agricultural use of land cannot be supported as a prudent investment decision. In Eastern Connecticut, as an example, the average market value for an acre of farmland is $3000. To buy this land would cost a farmer approximately $300 per acre per year in debt service payments financed over 20 years. The average annual net income potential per acre per year for a dairy farmer is approximately $200 (net earnings, not including debt service payments). The debt service payments on the land would be higher than the net income that could be earned farming the land.

                                Compared to other forms of undeveloped land, farmland is especially desirable for building purposes because it is relatively flat and well drained. The pressure to sell farmland for non-agricultural uses will continue to mount over the next ten years as an unprecedented number of Connecticut farmers reach retirement age. Unless adequate methods are supported to pass on farms to heirs who wish to farm or to sell farmland to other farmers, Connecticut will lose both the land and the farming knowledge these farmers possess.

                                Moreover, as farms within a farming community are lost to other uses, the remaining farms often become less viable. In farm communities, farmers can share equipment, trade farm products, and support local service providers, such as veterinarians. When agricultural businesses leave the vicinity, farming becomes more difficult and expensive. In addition, nearby development often brings with it the threat of nuisance complaints from new neighbors who are unfamiliar with the odors and noise typical of commercial farm operations. With every farm that is sold for non-agricultural uses, contiguous tracts of farmland are fragmented, creating a domino effect that only hastens the sale of adjoining farmland.

                                1.Chesmer, Robin, Dairy farmer from Lebanon, CT, conversation 2/7/00. Calculations based on the following assumptions: typical mix of farmland is 60% tillable and 40% woodland; average milk sold per cow is 20,000 pounds per year; each cow requires an average of 2 acres; average net farm earnings are $1.67 per 100 pounds of milk. These assumptions were based on statistics from “Northeast Dairy Farm Summary” prepared by Farm Credit.

                                2.In 1997, the average age of the Connecticut farmer was 55.5 years. United States Department of Agriculture, National Agricultural Statistics Service, 1997 Census of Agriculture.

                                3.In a survey of Connecticut dairy farmers, respondents reported that their families had been farming the same piece of land for an average of 85 years. Most of these farmers would like their farms to continue to operate. Over 80% responded that they planned to be in business for 5 years or more, and 42% responded they planned to expand their operations. However, nearly 16% responded that they had talked to a developer within the last 5 years about selling their land. Foltz, Jeremy, Department of Agricultural & Resource Economics, University of Connecticut, Summary Statistics: Connecticut Dairy Farmer Survey, 1999.

                                Chesmer, Robin, Very Alive, speech at Connecticut Rural Development Council meeting, December 8, 1999.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  I think this is turning into a very interesting and educational discussion.

                                  I have to chime in and say don't blame the farmers. I'm running out of people who have actually been to a dairy farm. Not one of the warehouse dairy farms, and actual small family dairy.

                                  I guess we can't be naive enough to expect things never to change. But this type of change is so ugly I can't bear to watch anymore.
                                  "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." ~ Jack Layton

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I guess we can't be naive enough to expect things never to change. But this type of change is so ugly I can't bear to watch anymore <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                    I was at the same point a few years back. I decided I couldn't stand any more. So, I rolled up my pantlegs and jumped into the pool. I have been advocating ever since.

                                    For all those here who lament the fact that we are losing land (and this is in EVERY state I might add), if nothing else, please consider doing just one thing: become a member of those organizations that are out there fighting to stop this travesty. There are many of them. They not only need your dues, but your numbers. When they speak to legislators, they can say that they represent 600, 6,000, 60,000 people who care strongly about this problem.

                                    Don't forget, as they go, we go. Every farm lost resonates. As horse owners, we will eventually feel the pinch, we lose trails, hay and grain prices go up, and we are nore often surrounded by condos instead of other types of agriculture. Sit and think for a minute about how many products you use in your barn that are agricultural in some way. The obvious: hay,grain. How about shavings, and fence boards? leather tack? Cotton wraps? wool blankets? Make a mental list, it may surprise you.

                                    OK, you obviously all know how very passionate I am about this issue. I don't meant to preach to the choir, as I know most here probably do care that this is happening.

                                    So, let me just issue this challenge: for the new year, would you all at least join one organization that is battling this problem?
                                    There are multitudes out there. Many offer great perks too, such as interesting magazines or newsletters, and fun tee shirts

                                    Its too late to save the graves of those great horses, but maybe your dollars could help save something else.....



                                    Oh, and a special round of applause for J Swan, who took responsiblity and set up a conservation program on her farm to provide wildlife habitat, and THEN was nice enough to share with others on COTH so they could do this too....

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      On the topic of farming and getting those interested in it, Northern Otsego Co. New York has been both promoting and strongly attracting Amish farmers. These are often the younger families who want to farm but have been priced (or indirectly regulated) out from doing so Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Kentucky.

                                      Say what you will about the Amish, but I've met those who have relocated to NY, purchased baked goods from them, and looked at their horses (large draft horses) - all looked fine. I for one enjoy seeing the active farms on the landscape vs. more urban refugees looking to make a quick buck "fixing up" a farm house, razing the barns and asking $1M.

                                      Otsego 2000 is a nonprofit regional environmental planning organization which has in past printed and distributed brochures to the Amish luring them to upstate. So far they have been a good addition to the area and everyone is pleased.

                                      Upstate NY farming likely will never return to any success as was seen before the decimating policies of (then) Governor Mario Cuomo (unquestionable the worst governor ever in NY) - however there are still ample amounts of run down and dormant farms across the region More power to those who landbank these farmlands and even more kudos to those who go into farming!

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I love developers and developments. That's what paid for my riding, showing, horse care, vet bills, farrier bills, horse farm and on and on. And the same goes for many of my family members, too. This may go for some of you, too. My dad (one of those developers) enjoys and appreciates farmland and agriculture, he'll often comment on how much he loves our horse farm, or going out to his land that he maintains and hunts in a nearby county. His goal in life is not necessarily to pave everything over, he wants to create good quality and attractive developments. So, believe it or not, developers are not money-grubbing men trying to take all your land, they're trying to make a living, and wow, they might also appreciate farms and land, too.

                                        I do agree it's unfortunate that they are moving the graves to make way for a another big box type store, though. But as someone said, it was the farm owner's decision, often times there's a point where the price is right, and its more expensive to try and keep the land as farmland. i have a professor who is moving becuase the area where he lives is becoming so developed that developers offered him so much that he was able to buy two farms in a nearby county. Unfortunate he has to move, but he would be one of those people completely surrounded by development soon, and I don't think he'd enjoy that as much as his two new cattle farms.

                                        Sorry this was long, just my little vent about people jumping all over developers.

                                        Comment

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