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Developer proposes moving horses' graves... TOPIC MORPH TO LAND CONSERVATION

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  • #41
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by J Swan:
    Windsor -
    Look into the Piedmont Environmental Council, American Farmland Trust, Land Trust of Virginia - I'll try and think of some others. I'm perimenopausal and have no memory. lee posted above and had some good ones. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Thanks--was familiar with PEC but not the others, and didn't know if, among the ones I was familiar with, some were more influential/effective than others.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    I have to say that I'm not against development. Folks deserve a decent place to live. But I think we're all being sold a bill of goods. Know what I mean? Bigger. Faster. More. Shinier. I don't think it's healthy emotionally of physically for us. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Well said!

    Comment


    • #42
      The PEC as I recall wasn't exactly been against the Salmander Inn which no one can say is in the best interest of Middleburg from an environmental standpoint

      That aside ...

      What tends to be the most insidious of all actions eroding a way of life are the little movements, the sprawl factor as has been consistently cited. It is isn't so much the mega projects as they are a lightening rod and often easily motivate the average guy to take a stand against it.

      Case in point: the Disney America project of a decade ago on Route 66, No. Va. I would be hard pressed to name one person in favor of it then (save for the land holders selling out and construction folks) and certainly not a sole today.

      Contrast that to say Middleburg today which is slowly (or rapidly depending on the view) seeing land sliced up little by little for oversized homes on smaller plots and visible on the landscape. No one is trying to stop those homes from changing the look and feel. Other activities quickly proceed without objection. No restrictions have existed to John Kent Cooke's Boxwood Winery commercial venture at what had been a very quiet, private manor house owned for many years by the Stephen C. Clark, Jr. family.

      At some point people will look around and wonder why so much speedy traffic will be found near the Hill School. A way of life which was simplicity away from living in the long since Urbanized area of Alexandria is slowly becoming the norm in the capital of hunt country.

      As cited above, I won't even touch the whole Salamander Inn project.

      The "big city" of Warrenton is growing by leaps and bounds with whatever farm land left being gobbled up. While I don't know this man from Adam - and I don't live in Fauquier Co. - I did appreciate what he was saying in his own word about how development is ruining the area: Citizen 09/09/04 Letter to the Editor: What we cherish about Fauquier faces extinction

      Comment


      • #43
        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jetjocky:
        [QUOTE]I have personally seen, farmers who have been forced out for various reasons, and many of them WEPT when they gave up their farms. Having seen a 75 year old man howl in dispair made me ashamed that we as citizenss can let such thing happen to the people who feed and cloth us.[QUOTE]

        As a culture, we should be ashamed of our insatiable hunger for cheaper gizmos and gadgets, McMansions and so forth. This is one of the many reasons that other nations fear, dislike and distrust us.

        These tendencies away from a connection to the natural world are what ultimately has driven people who have fed and clothed us for generations off the land. As stegall, I believe it was, noted, you can't just point the finger in any one direction, whether it's the developer, the big-box retail chain, or what. The blame is in the culture that allows these things to blossom unchecked and largely unquestioned.

        Also as we take farmland out of production, we begin to cede our method of food production over to who?? the Chinese, the Argentines? And if push ever comes to shove, do you think they will feed Americans first? (Sorry, getting off soapbox now; I know I'm a broken record.)

        Let's all make a resolution for the New Year, or even before, to support organizations dedicated to preserving farmland. Let's join stegall and JSwan in the fight to protect the rural way of life. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

        You may be a broken record, but you're playing the right song.

        I'll join in the fight. Just need to figure out which group...
        ____________________________
        “Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.”
        Dave Barry

        Comment


        • #44
          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Glimmerglass:
          The PEC as I recall wasn't exactly been against the Salmander Inn which no one can say is in the best interest of Middleburg from an environmental standpoint <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

          Hmmmmmm...point taken.

          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
          The "big city" of Warrenton is growing by leaps and bounds with whatever farm land left being gobbled up. While I don't know this man from Adam - and I don't live in Fauquier Co. - I did appreciate what he was saying in his own word about how development is ruining the area: http://www.citizenet.com/opinions/le.../letter3.shtml <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

          I don't know how much more I can read. It's depressing.

          Comment


          • #45
            Yeah - no group is perfect. Having worked for one - It's difficult to please everyone - and often the alternative to something rather odious is even worse.

            In the last 4 years Fauquier has just been attacked on all fronts. It's a tough fight in Virginia because of the Dillon Rule, VDOT and the powerful development lobby.

            But that's not the case everywhere, and there are many successes, particularly with local land trusts. So keep researching and asking questions. Perhaps the equestrian land conservation resourse may be better for you. but there are many choices - pick one or two that have a good record of working with other groups.
            Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
            Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
            -Rudyard Kipling

            Comment


            • #46
              oh, I was able to look today but not post until I got home, so I had to sit and painfully wait for my day to end to come and get back into this topic. .

              Need to preface some things:

              First, In rereading my post to you giddy-up, it sounded snipy, and I apologize, as I didn't mean it that way. I can only blame my extreme sleep depravation while posting on a very dear subject to me.

              Because of the fact that I am so very close to this issue, I want to make a few things clear. First, as has been noted, there is no one easy solution. (If there was, probably 1,000 people, myself included, would have fixed it by now).

              Also, I am not blaming the developers exclusively. Yes, I do believe there are good and conscientious developers. I have seen a few places that are "equine communities" which have been done very nicely. Also, I am not opposed to development in general. Unfortunately, I think that not enough developers put the thought/planning/consideration into what they are doing-unlike those mentioned here. My own town is a case in point, we have several little neighborhoods which have gone up lately which are not only an eyesore, but one is currently causing significant erosion and drainage problems, which have succeeded in polluting a pond across the street and annoyed surrounding property owners. Our town currently has no historic district, no (enforced) open space policy, and at the moment Cumberland farms has just come in and made on offer on a historic mansion in town built circa 1816 in order to raze it for a store and gas pumps. (which by the way is across the street from the same thing owned by 7/11). The current situation has been created in part by our lax zoning officials.

              And, sometimes people don't realize that sprawl is insidious. Its more than just losing a farm. Its increased property taxes for residents, increased crime, traffic congestion, higher food prices, its a long list of negative impacts.

              Personally, I wish there was more of a push for revitalization and infill. In other words, find those properties in need of rebuilding and go to work. As has been mentioned here as well-its not the elimination of growth, but the "smart growth" that is better. Some towns have been successful in this, but sadly, most have not.

              So, Giddy-up, I don't see you as the enemy, and I wish more developers were like you. Then maybe I wouldn't have to be so anxious to post here on COTH . The sad thing is that for people like me, who have been doing this for so long, you begin to get burnt out. Its discouraging to fight ten battles and only win one.

              But, I am sure most people know how I feel by now.

              So, what can a person do? As said before, join organizations, thats an important step. Especially the small nonprofits, they are always hard up for dollars. Some of the reccommended ones are excellent places to start; the Equestrian Land conservation Resource (ELCR), The Amercian Farmland Trust,
              The Working Lands Alliance, and something I have not seen mentioned yet, your state Ag In the Classroom programs. The Agricultural Education Foundation in CT (of which I am past President-so here comes the shameless plug), runs educational programs in the classrooms for grades K-12. Its amazing to know that there are many children out there who have no idea where food comes from or have appreciation for the importance of farms. Many states have similar programs. These are important because the children of today are leaders tommorow.

              And...for those of you who feel more industrious.....
              Write a letter to your legislators and tell them how you feel about the subject. They might not have something to vote on now, but if you contact them early and let them know, then they will remember this in the future (trust me on this, I lobby too). Legislators VERY seldom get correspondence from their constituants. Usually only if there is a hugely sensitive issue. SO, to get a letter out of the blue most often gives them a wake up call. Aa a helpful hint, most legisltors are not online so you can even do this by email (how fun is that). To find your legisltors, do a google on your state general assembly, or capitol and go to the state website. they have contact info for your legislator. If not, call your town hall or secretary of state (blue pages of the phone book).

              OK, next (if I still have your attention) call your town hall and get a copy of your zoning book. Ask them if they have an open space or farmland protection policy on the books. If not ask WHY NOT??

              Write some letters to the editors of your local paper (again-many newspapers now accept letters online).

              And finally-JOIN your state Farm Bureaus and Horse Councils. They are the ones out in the front lobbying.

              Heck-go wild and buy memberships for all your horsey friends as stocking stuffers.


              And the truth of the matter, what annoys me most is when people do nothing at all. Pretty soon, they won't be able to move away from it. If we get to the point where the farms are greatly reduced, we will have to import the majority of our food (think what that will cost us) and be reliant on other countries to survive. And, most importantly, we won't be able to afford our horses, or have a place to keep them. I live in fear of that time, and I know its coming sooner than we think.....


              ok, off the soapbox. If you read the entire post, wow, I'm impressed.

              Comment


              • #47
                Ha, you thought I was gone, but I had to come back..Just thought I wouldn't drop a suggestion and then leave.

                For those of you who may be interested, here are some links. One is a link to the CT Ag in the classroom paper on some of our activities, the next is the AFB ag in the classrooom link so you can find your own state program.

                Finally, the last link is my most favorite. For those of you interested in contacting your legislators, here is a place to search to find them. WARNING: this link contains every link you ever wanted for the US government. Be prepared for some serious surfing here, but its well worth it.

                http://www.ruralct.org/docs/success7_01.pdf

                http://www.ageducate.org/links/states_A-C.html


                http://www.firstgov.gov/

                Comment


                • #48
                  Giddy-up, great post. It sounds as if your community and mine are facing such similiar problems. My village, and town, managed to push through a decent comprenhensive plan. The neighboring town has no zoning. As in zilch, nada, none. I live in a county within 2.5 hours driving time from NYC which currently has a population of 62,000. The county south, of the same physical size, has a population of 250,000. No matter where we all are, these problems are coming upon us. And as everyone has stated, there are no easy answers.

                  I find this problem so depressing, it inspires -- and cheers -- me to read everyone's posts. And see how many of us are concerned with these issues.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Some small ideas:

                    1. Read the Not So Big House by Sarah Susanka. It talks about the various pressures to build McMansions with More Square Feet ... and we end up with houses that aren't really liveable, with most of the space standing empty. Your library probably has a copy. Read it, digest it, evangelize it.

                    2. Support infill development and high density in exchange for leaving open farmland on the outskirts. I love the new Paseo in Pasadena, CA with very nice (and expensive) apartments above classy retail, on the site of a previously declining traditional shopping mall. Saves on land space, saves on driving, makes for a vibrant destination.

                    3. Shop at farmer's markets. Those are family farmers, and instead of getting a few cents per pound from the brokers they're getting full retail from you.

                    BTW, just to make sure our perspectives are in line: 100 houses on 100 acres is probably the epitome of sprawl. 100 dwellings on 1 acre is way better. 20 dwellings per acre may be realistic for most communities.
                    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by poltroon:
                      Some small ideas:

                      1. Read the Not So Big House by Sarah Susanka. It talks about the various pressures to build McMansions with More Square Feet ... and we end up with houses that aren't really liveable, with most of the space standing empty. Your library probably has a copy. Read it, digest it, evangelize it.
                      <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                      I do already! That's a great book, I dream of having a home like that.
                      ____________________________
                      “Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.”
                      Dave Barry

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        It is a great book. And I live in a not so big house. It's under 800sq ft and we love it.
                        Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                        Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                        -Rudyard Kipling

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Poltroon, I am glad to hear that they made that area a success. I bet some good planning went into it. Now, I prefer the country way of life, but if for some reason I would have to move to the city, that would likely be the place I would go-easy access, and thoughtful set up.

                          One of the related topics to this is traffic/commuting and public access. Unfortunately, many cities have sprung up pell mell, and don't have good transportation infrastructures. (some cities however have done an excellent job).

                          The city of Hartford for example, is VERY pedestrian unfriendly. Their sidewalks are poorly maintained (and in some cases just disappear) public transportation is sporadic and ineffective and the city is run down in several sections. I would never want to live there, and don't go there for anything unless its necessary. oh, and add in no parking, its a nightmare.

                          But, thanks very much for the book reccomendation, I will have to go find it.

                          For those of you who own their own farms or property...Have you taken advantage of any programs to help keep your property as a farm? Or, as J.Swan did, created wildlife habitats?
                          Would you ever consider doing so? The PDR programs as mentioned in some cases apply to horse farms too. (depends on your state requirements as well as the type of land you have). I am just wondering, as I know horse people are often unaware of the things that might be avilable to them. (If you board, do you know if the BO has taken any steps?).
                          I am wondering if my next project should be to put out some publication for horse people to make them aware of the different programs. I have half of the material already...

                          And, as an aside, before the topic swung (sorry if I caused a highjack), but does anyone know if there has been any consulting with other great farms to see if the horses in question could be moved there, out of respect? Or, possibly to the KHP?

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #53
                            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stegall:
                            And, as an aside, before the topic swung (sorry if I caused a highjack), but does anyone know if there has been any consulting with other great farms to see if the horses in question could be moved there, out of respect? Or, possibly to the KHP? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                            Apparently not:

                            "Madden said yesterday that he intends to relocate the farm's horse graveyard from a hard-to-reach plot just off Winchester Road to a more prominent spot within the shopping center.

                            "We're going to move it and integrate it, making it more accessible to the general public," Madden said. "I haven't studied to the point that we know where the best place would be."
                            "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." ~ Jack Layton

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hitchinmygetalong:
                              "Madden said yesterday that he intends to relocate the farm's horse graveyard from a hard-to-reach plot just off Winchester Road to a more prominent spot within the shopping center.

                              "We're going to move it and integrate it, making it more accessible to the general public," Madden said. "I haven't studied to the point that we know where the best place would be." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              I saw that comment too and was frankly repulsed. Graves are not circus attractions, period. I believe strongly in the notion of sacred earth and the need for a quiet, private final resting place - not next to the Starbucks or McDonalds!

                              These horses made a fortune (small or otherwise) for his family back in the day and they deserve a hell of a lot better then to be prominently located in a freaking shopping center.

                              How about this guy use a bit of his newly found coin from the great sellout and buy some secluded, but small land in say Versailes for these horses to rest on? All due respect, but thats the very least Madden could do

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                By the way - a bit more on the rather impressive horses in question from
                                The Blood-Horse

                                The Thoroughbreds buried on the farm include: Ida Pickwick - granddam of Old Rosebud, 1914 Kentucky Derby winner; Imp, great race mare and Horse of the Year 1899; Lady Sterling, dam of Sir Barton, 1919 Kentucky Derby winner and first Triple Crown winner; Miss Kearney, dam of Zev, 1923 Kentucky Derby winner; Ogden, sire; Pink Pigeon, good race mare; Plaudit, 1898 Kentucky Derby winner; Princess Mary, dam of Flying Ebony, 1925 Kentucky Derby winner; Sir Martin, half brother to Sir Barton and stakes winner in both the United States and England; favorite for the Epsom Derby but stumbled and lost his rider; winner at 4 of the Coronation Stakes at Epsom; Star Shoot, leading sire five times (1911,1912, 1916, 1917,1919) and sire of Sir Barton, the winner of the Triple Crown in 1919; T.V. Lark, champion grass horse of 1961 and leading sire 1974; Bel Sheba, dam of Alysheba, 1987 Kentucky Derby winner; and Nancy Hanks, outstanding Standardbred mare.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Of course least I fail to cite that the home of Man O'War was lost in the last couple years to developers too: GlenRiddle: Berlin, Maryland

                                  Where now you too can leave your expensive ugly (yes, these are ugly McMansions!) Brady Bunch house and drive your golf cart down the former galloping trails to the former pastures of War Admiral and Man O'War to what the world needs more of .. two golf courses.

                                  You know golf courses, those faux "greenspace" concepts that actually suck down more water resources then any pasture ever would and require tons of chemicals. Oh boy! What fun!

                                  quote: "Fortunately, the GlenRiddle Training Stable, which included stalls, and an indoor exercise track, remains structurally sound, and is currently being rebuilt as part of the GlenRiddle Golf Clubhouse."

                                  "In addition, the two golf courses are named Man O’ War and War Admiral."

                                  Isn't that rich

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #57
                                    Glimmerglass, that is just plain WRONG. Don't let Coreene see it! And I take great exception to the fact that one of the TRULY ugly homes is called "Keeneland."
                                    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." ~ Jack Layton

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      What will bring this world down is not the individual problems but the total apathy and acceptance of bad governance which deprives us of the Bill of Rights.

                                      My husband is a builder and a developer and for him, his housing was like art. His joy is to see these housing units and communities with lights on on the houses and people safely enjoying the security of their own home. Property rights is a very important issue. The point is you do not have to do everything with laws and Marshalls.

                                      Once you give in to "government" having the right to deprive you of your rights then "GOOD"" causes become weapons and our liberty and freedom will vanish.

                                      The point is that what a community (community is the people) needs is "Design Control" for any new development it is not zoning that is the way this should be approached. There are quality of life issues that should take priority over any government ageny whether it is the IRS, zoning or even the Board of Health.


                                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And the truth of the matter, what annoys me most is when people do nothing at all. Pretty soon, they won't be able to move away from it. If we get to the point where the farms are greatly reduced, we will have to import the majority of our food (think what that will cost us) and be reliant on other countries to survive. And, most importantly, we won't be able to afford our horses, or have a place to keep them. I live in fear of that time, and I know its coming sooner than we think..... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                                      I have the greatest respect for Senator Ben Campbell and I think he is the most courageous Senator I have ever had contact with on issues of individual rights. I have no doubt this was his way to bring attention to a problem facing us all with defending the acres preserved for the use of horses.

                                      Undoubtedly, this was the best he could get done but like so many things it is pretty rhetoric, lovely words we want to hear. But, only noise and sound and fury with no substance to improve the state of the horse and those owners defending their right to have them. Politicians are very good in hiding behind apple pie, baseball amd mothers with lovely thoughts that implement no change of attitude.

                                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>MEMORANDUM

                                      To: AHC Member Organizations

                                      From: American Horse Council

                                      Date: November 19, 2004

                                      Re: National Day of the Horse

                                      Yesterday the Senate passed a Resolution (S. Res. 452), introduced by Senator Ben Nighthorse Campbell (R-CO), designating December 13, 2004 as the National Day of the Horse and asking the President to issue a proclamation to that effect. Since this is a Senate resolution only, it does not go to the House of Representatives for any action. The Resolution will now be published for the President’s action.

                                      The Resolution provides that the horse “is a living link to the history of the United States,” that horses “continue to permeate the society of the United States, as witnessed on movie screens, on open land, and in our own backyards,” that “wild and domestic horses rely on humans for adequate food, water, and shelter,” and that “horses are a vital part of the collective experience of the United States and deserve protection and compassion.”

                                      Resolutions do not have the same force as bills when they are passed. They are not law. They are used to express principles, opinions and purposes and often call on the President to do something, as this Resolution does. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      I really never believed that in my old age I would have to stand up to defend our individual rights against government intervention even in our kitchens. I have seen in the past 5 years horse keeping go from the most "pristine" use of open land to a nasty poluter which will be regulated into extinction.

                                      Perhaps we should suggest that on the "Horses's Day" all motorized vehicles ould illegally used if driven and everyone will need to use a horse only on that day. Highways closed except to horses.
                                      http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

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                                      • #59
                                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Personally, I wish there was more of a push for revitalization and infill. In other words, find those properties in need of rebuilding and go to work. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        And developers can make a pretty penny off of those sites. Improving quality of life in our cities is a big key to land preservation. Sadly, certain urban residents are bigger NIMBY's than rural residents.... My favorites thumb their nose at CONDOS! Egad... only poor people have CONDOS.... meanwhile, the proposed condos cost $650K and have granite counters and wood floors.... but you know, it's density and worse than a trailer home.
                                        The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

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                                        • #60
                                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> It's the "luxury" subdivisons (again located in unincorporated County--not our jursidiction) that offer large size lots (couple acres or larger) that spread out the homes & create sprawl that you have to drive further & further to get to anything. What is better for open space/sprawl prevention--to have 10 homes on 100 acres or 100 homes on 100 acres with designated open space & smaller lot sizes (I don't even know if these numbers are feasible, just throwing out for an example).
                                          <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                          Down here, those large lot subs are getting much less popular. People don't want to cut grass. We routinely advise against that type of development - and we consult with the developers on maximizing their profits - not on smart growth.

                                          Down here in Charlotte, I'm amazed at the market for urban condos and town homes and luxury zero lot line homes. Blown away by what people will pay to live close to the city, provided the space is fancy, they get 2 parking spaces and the neighborhood has a Starbucks. The last group of people we need are those with kids.... but our schools just aren't solid enough to prevent them from moving out to Ye Olde Riding Trails subdivision.... and many of those singla family homes are rapidly devaluing due to over supply. I'm hoping sprawl will lose steam in my neck o' the woods...
                                          The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

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