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Games Trainers Play: The Florida Horse Saga

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  • Hehe! Just to add a funny little coincidence to this already quirky thread....Belle Reve is also the name of William Shatner's farm in the Saddlebred world! Live long and prosper!


    • Wow, you guys have been busy!!

      Woodland & Donkeyman are my heroes. I just love that this thread has some 'sellers' looking over their shoulders

      "Second, the most important aspect of riding is having a rider who is correct and balanced; which must be accomplished before the rider can ask the horse to correctly do his job." This little tidbit is exactly what came to mind (NOT!) when I saw those pictures of "T" and child at the show....
      Y'all ain't right!


      • Originally posted by Guin View Post
        Did that rider pictured on Thing 2's site actually win the Marshall & Sterling, or are they making that up?

        And Yahoo now brings up that site FIRST in its results! (Clermont Florida Hunter Jumper pleasure instruction)

        If that girl did...wow.....

        See scariness of riding a youngster over fences here -->[url] [link removed] (bottom of page)
        Last edited by Moderator 1; Jan. 22, 2008, 09:30 PM. Reason: removed link

        ~Coth's Resident Deatheater~


        • Is it normal to be showing a barely 3 year old horse in Hunter/Jumper Shows with a kid on it? Seems really young to me, but I'm not a H/J person. Thing 2's website says he was started when he was barely 2 years old.

          [removed link]

          "Riley" American Warmblood (AWS) Gelding

          November 2004 - Riley's first Hunter/Jumper schooling show! He was entered in two under saddle classes and won both! Congratulations
          Last edited by Moderator 1; Jan. 22, 2008, 09:29 PM. Reason: link removed


          • sad isn't it?? I have a coming 4 that we JUST started, and we X rayed his knees the other day and they are still not "closed"! In fact,, he still has so much room to grow,, I am worried about starting him THIS year!
            "Energy efficient vehicle. Runs on grass and oats. CAUTION: Avoid exhaust!"
            I think we should eat trolls.
            Troll meat. Now that's good eatin'.
            by Hiddenlake


            • I don't think that is Thing 2's website.

              I think the posted website was created and hosted by a kid who rides with Thing 2, and it happens to have a promo page relating to Thing 2. Most of the other content appears to be related to Thing 2's student, who is NOT (as I understand it) the student who bought T.
              "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"


              • Well she should get business as her rider did win the Marshall Sterling Medal which is a great accomplishment and she did take two other qualifiers to New York for the finals which many others have not so her training methods are obviously good and the horse the rider has that won is adorable..If you look at the rider's equitation it is quite spot on...The area which she is based is not a big money area at all but does have genuine horse lovers so working in the hunter/jumper theme in that area is no easy task...most of the kids are 4h'ers etc..I think the lady can teach and does have a good foundation for the kids (lord knows many people don't teach kids, the little monsters) and the horses she does have are quite nice stock.

                I just disagreed with her not intervening with the buyer to get the deal done when they were showing the horse. Some how I think she was being controlled by the buyer's end and not wanting to loose a good customer. From what I understand the young girl who bought the infamous horse is quite talented and will be wildly successful with her new mount once they get it together. People say the yound girl is a very sweet kind child and loves her horses.

                So I don't think the Florida trainer should be frowned upon other than the business side of it. I have this feeling she is mortified that her buyer behaved so oddly. Heck she probably did not even get a commission.

                I think this thread has a morale to the story.....you have one week to ride, try and vet a horse before the money is due!

                Good luck to the group and I do wish them success and maybe we will see T in the Marshall Sterling's in 2008


                • Maybe it's not "her" website, but Thing 2 trains out of that farm and has a page listing her as the "trainer".

                  According to the website, the student in the link affiliated with Thing 2 (with the baby horse) started training with Thing 2 in April 04. What a quality trainer Thing 2 is to take a 2 plus year old horse and kid into training!! Yep, quality!


                  • Just as a note, there are two ways to win a year end award. One is to accrue more points than anyone else, and given the nature of the points in this sport, it's a lot easier to rack up some wins at some shows than others. Another is to beat everyone who shows up at the finals, assuming the people who show up are a representative sample of the best of the best. I believe M&S is a lot like Regionals. A lot of kids (and their trainers) get there on the basis of some small classes at small shows offering a glorified hunter course, and if the big dogs are up north for the summer, qualifying can be a lot easier. But they do get unpleasantly surprised when they see what really makes up a serious eq course. The riders who have been with trainers who travel to shows where serious medal/maclay contenders show are in a far better position to show their stuff. Knowing how the system works, you don't necessarily look at someone at the top of a points list and conclude this is the next greatest rider out there. But still, everyone has to start somewhere, so I have no problems with that. You can't always know what your challenges are until you meet them, right? I would look to see how the trainer/rider partnership handle the next year. Do they up their game and make changes, or are they just happy getting points in small venues and not really worrying about where the big dogs roam?

                    As for the sale of this horse, let me see if I have it down correctly? Trainer 1 & 2 find horse for Child. Lots of people on here think horse is too nice for Child and her Trainers (in spite of the fact they have never sat on or even seen anything more than a picture of said horse, but whatever). Child's Parent proceeds to ask for the sun, moon, stars and an extra case of wine from the Seller while negotiating transaction for horse. Seller, with no sign of a gun held to her head, pretty much gives sun, moon and stars, draws the line on extra wine. Horse is sold, check passes directly from Buyer to Seller with not any "seller" financial involvement with Trainer 1 or 2 (let us note this is a HUGE difference from some of the top eq trainers in the business). Child's Father appears to inflate value of horse as well as his negotiating skills (woo woo, big drama here). Website of primary trainer is revealed. By all accounts it shows some kids and horses and trainer presented in a not dangerous setting, well fed horses, kids enjoying fun projects and some wee bragging about successes that might overstate the case. That's something nobody else does, to be sure.

                    Forgive me, what is the drama associated with the last 75 pages, other than people a wishin' and a hopin' there was grand fraud?
                    " Robert Novak apparently, they say, broke his hip. I think it's not the case. I believe his hip tried to escape." -- Jon Stewart


                    • [QUOTE=Spoilsport;2954388]Yes, she did. I don't know her. I looked it up on-line [QUOTE]

                      Wait, the same child in those photos WON a Marshall & Sterling? WON?

                      Well, that's hunters for you.

                      Also, as to saying you paid $20K when you paid $6500 - I think that's actually kind of common. Hunters are subjective; you want to create buzz. That's just the way it is. You set it up so everyone thinks you're going around on a $75K horse, which is what papa is saying, that he got a 75K horse for 20K. I bet it works. You are also setting up for the re-sell down the road. Simple. And again, a common tactic.

                      And I don't see any libel anywhere here.

                      My favorite part is all the creeps in FL looking over their shoulders thinking this thread is about their snarky ways.


                      • Originally posted by donkeyman View Post
                        I think this thread has a morale to the story.....you have one week to ride, try and vet a horse before the money is due!
                        Nope, the moral of the story is: the horse doesn't leave the owner's property or control until the money is in the owner's account.


                        • Congrats COTHDOGS - you ave officially moved me from a die hard "sport horse breeding" poster to an official "off courser".
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                          • Originally posted by Anne FS View Post
                            Well, that's hunters for you.
                            Except in this case it was the M&S Children's medal - eq, not hunter
                            " Robert Novak apparently, they say, broke his hip. I think it's not the case. I believe his hip tried to escape." -- Jon Stewart


                            • Hey guys that M & S horse is very nice! And while I do not agree with o/f as a 3 yr old, he sure looks mature! And OBVIOUSLY well cared for! U/S classes - heck lots of people do those with long two year olds. If the horse is ready - I say go for it. An AWS is a draft X - they mature differently than a WB or TB or stock type - it's the nature of the beastie.

                              The pictures are adorable - a girl and her beloved horsies - It does the heart good on such a cold day. Cute cute cute!!! Oh man the pig & papillion pictures were a HOOT!~

                              *Ahem* haven't we all fudged a bit on the purchase price I know when I want to put the fear into the gossip mill I inflate the price and ability - tis the art of physiological warfare and I am not above that .
                              "If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there"


                              • An AWS is a draft X
                                I beg to differ. Many, if not most, AWS have no heavy draft.
                                Attached Files

                                chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).


                                • Will be moved to favorites

                                  Before another chapter begins, we'll be moving this thread into the favorites forum shortly to preserve the epic tale for posterity, so if anyone wants to comment further you should do so in the next day or so.



                                  • Oh noooooooo! We need CoTHdog stick art and 2,000 posts before that happens!!!


                                    • Could the Donkman, in reality, be "The Equalizer" : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Equalizer . Sorry, I'm showing my age.....

                                      I, for one, will be sorry to see this thread go.... It's been very enlightening from many aspects....

                                      Eponacowgirl, you must let us know if the certified check bounces since we won't have this thread to refer to.
                                      "I'm not much into conspiracy theories but if everyone thinks alike you don't need a plot!" ~person from another bulletin board whose name has been long forgotten~


                                      • Originally posted by Woodland View Post
                                        My Friend got the impression this FL trainer is niave, and really did not have the ability - until PUSHED - to get this done or to get her client to the finish line.
                                        Continuing this thread--any bets as to who pushed T2.
                                        “Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things.” Peter Drucker


                                        • Although this has been VERY entertaining, the moral remains the same.
                                          NEVER SEND A HORSE ON TRIAL. You are then at the mercy of THEIR vets, their accidents and their word. Uh-uh. My horse is mine until the money is in the bank.

                                          Glad for the seller that is all turned out this way. Could have been a MAJOR disaster.
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