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Games Trainers Play: The Florida Horse Saga

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  • #41
    Originally posted by horse-loverz View Post
    Isn't that one of the signs of the Apocolypse?????

    Just scared the stuffing outta my sleeping dog, laughing so loud.

    To the OP: Just say NO.

    Comment


    • #42
      No.

      Unbelievable what people ask for. Buyer isn't serious. Friend isn't going to get "reimbursement check" either for their time or gas. Buyer & trainer can fly to KY to see horse.
      "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"

      Comment


      • #43
        No, no, no, no, no NO!!!

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by ChocoMare View Post
          BWAHAHAHAHAHA.... oh sorry. What were you saying?

          Um, no way. If buyer wants to try the horse, buyer gets her bootie up to Kentucky.


          Bwahahahahah, I can't remember...


          But I think you are right, we are talking nearly half the country, not across town....


          (I guess you can't blame them for asking?)

          Comment


          • #45
            I'm familiar with the details of one horse sale where the horse was shipped a great distance for trial -- In that case, the buyer had tried the horse earlier in the season at a show, but had decided to keep looking -- A few months later, when the horse was in FL and the buyer in NY, the buyer decided that they would like to try the horse again -- Seller said fly to FL -- Buyer insisted they couldn't -- So, seller allowed them to ship the horse to NY for trial with a signed agreement that stated (1) the horse would be shipped by a particular commercial shipper in a full stall (2) buyer would pay all expenses including insurance (3) trial ended at a particular date and time, and if payment was not transfered to sellers account by that time, the horse was in the shipper's van on the way home --

            Horse ended up pulling a shoe and stepping on the clip while shipping to NY -- He was lame when he arrived -- Vets were called in, and they found no cause for the lameness other than the shoe mishap -- Buyer didn't get much opportunity to try the horse before the deadline -- Seller would not extend the deadline because she was worried about the horse's foot -- Buyer decided to buy and the money transfer was made less than an hour before the deadline -- I had never seen the seller as stressed as she was that week in all the years I had known her --

            This was an expensive horse, and even with all the BNT's great reputations involved and precautions taken, the transaction was stressful on both sides -- I'd avoid getting involved in a similar transaction --
            Last edited by dab; Nov. 8, 2007, 05:52 PM. Reason: typo
            "I never mind if an adult uses safety stirrups." GM

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by eponacowgirl View Post

              The potential buyer has contacted my friend asked her to haul the horse to Florida for them to look at him.
              What do we do? We've never sold a horse like this before and we're kinda baffled.
              thank them for their time and mutter to yourself something about people being too cheap or lazy to travel to see a horse....

              Tamara in TN
              Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
              I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #47
                Alright... thanks for all your replies!! I just talked to my friend again, and I have more info/variables to add.

                The person in contact with my friend is a trainer at a hunter barn wintering in Florida. She has one very interested party in the horse- a teenager who sounds like a fantastic match. She has several others looking for horses who might be interested if the first family doesn't work out. The trainer is actually the daughter of my friend's trainer from Southern IL, whom, if I'm not mistaken, actually sold my friend the horse in the first place. The horse is nice and fairly priced for LOCAL sale... I already told my friend that if she does this, she's raising the price drastically.

                My friend talked to the trainer in Florida today after I posted, and the trainer said there was an excellent chance of selling the horse. My friend was, of course, still hesitant, and the trainer said if he didn't sell, he could stay with her for the winter and she would have him ridden and shown. Friend asked who would be covering the costs of this and trainer said friend wouldn't have to pay- they would adjust his sale price accordingly to make sure trainer recouped what she needed. (Let me interject at this point and say that if she even THINKS about doing this, she will have a VERY SPECIFIC contract drawn up, signed and notarized, we've at least learned that much.)

                We've discussed the things that could happen with that arrangement-
                Horse goes down, sells, friend hauls back. No problem.
                Horse goes down, gets hurt in trailer, has to haul home with horse, loses big bucks.
                Horse goes down, doesn't sell, trainer shows and sells. No problem.
                Horse goes down, doesn't sell immediately, trainer shows, doesn't sell, trainer wants money, friend gets screwed.
                Horse goes down, doesn't sell immediately, trainer does nothing with horse all winter, friend has to go get "un-bettered" horse, loses big bucks.

                Lucky for me, it's not my horse, so I can see both sides of it. I asked my trainer about it today (who is totally unrelated to the situation) and he said he's shipped horses to FL before, he covered shipping, barn took horse on "care lease," no cost to the seller, kept horse for contracted amt. of time and sold it.

                I like the $1000 deposit idea.

                Good points as far as hotel and vet costs etc. All things I didn't think about.

                Okay, continue.
                Big Idea Eventing

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by eponacowgirl View Post
                  My friend was, of course, still hesitant, and the trainer said if he didn't sell, he could stay with her for the winter and she would have him ridden and shown. Friend asked who would be covering the costs of this and trainer said friend wouldn't have to pay- they would adjust his sale price accordingly to make sure trainer recouped what she needed. .
                  just say no....the horse is in KY....the new sales local is FL....the pricing is vastly different and if the trainers is so sure of a sale let them cough up the price now....remember that one of the many sales tricks of a horse trader is to show you a marginal horse and then a remarkable horse right after....or at least mariginal horse makes everything else look remarkable call me jaded....

                  Tamara in TN
                  Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                  I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by eponacowgirl View Post
                    Alright... thanks for all your replies!! I just talked to my friend again, and I have more info/variables to add.

                    The person in contact with my friend is a trainer at a hunter barn wintering in Florida. She has one very interested party in the horse- a teenager who sounds like a fantastic match. She has several others looking for horses who might be interested if the first family doesn't work out. The trainer is actually the daughter of my friend's trainer from Southern IL, whom, if I'm not mistaken, actually sold my friend the horse in the first place. The horse is nice and fairly priced for LOCAL sale... I already told my friend that if she does this, she's raising the price drastically.

                    My friend talked to the trainer in Florida today after I posted, and the trainer said there was an excellent chance of selling the horse. My friend was, of course, still hesitant, and the trainer said if he didn't sell, he could stay with her for the winter and she would have him ridden and shown. Friend asked who would be covering the costs of this and trainer said friend wouldn't have to pay- they would adjust his sale price accordingly to make sure trainer recouped what she needed. (Let me interject at this point and say that if she even THINKS about doing this, she will have a VERY SPECIFIC contract drawn up, signed and notarized, we've at least learned that much.)

                    We've discussed the things that could happen with that arrangement-
                    Horse goes down, sells, friend hauls back. No problem.
                    Horse goes down, gets hurt in trailer, has to haul home with horse, loses big bucks.
                    Horse goes down, doesn't sell, trainer shows and sells. No problem.
                    Horse goes down, doesn't sell immediately, trainer shows, doesn't sell, trainer wants money, friend gets screwed.
                    Horse goes down, doesn't sell immediately, trainer does nothing with horse all winter, friend has to go get "un-bettered" horse, loses big bucks.

                    Lucky for me, it's not my horse, so I can see both sides of it. I asked my trainer about it today (who is totally unrelated to the situation) and he said he's shipped horses to FL before, he covered shipping, barn took horse on "care lease," no cost to the seller, kept horse for contracted amt. of time and sold it.

                    I like the $1000 deposit idea.

                    Good points as far as hotel and vet costs etc. All things I didn't think about.

                    Okay, continue.
                    There's no way in hell I would do it. I don't care if someone pays me up front. It shows me they are not serious if they are not willing to come to me. Futhermore I would not put my horse through all of that.
                    Originally posted by barka.lounger
                    u get big old crop and bust that nags ass the next time it even slow down.

                    we see u in gp ring in no time.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by eponacowgirl View Post
                      Alright... thanks for all your replies!! I just talked to my friend again, and I have more info/variables to add.

                      The person in contact with my friend is a trainer at a hunter barn wintering in Florida. She has one very interested party in the horse- a teenager who sounds like a fantastic match. She has several others looking for horses who might be interested if the first family doesn't work out. The trainer is actually the daughter of my friend's trainer from Southern IL, whom, if I'm not mistaken, actually sold my friend the horse in the first place. The horse is nice and fairly priced for LOCAL sale... I already told my friend that if she does this, she's raising the price drastically.


                      My friend talked to the trainer in Florida today after I posted, and the trainer said there was an excellent chance of selling the horse. My friend was, of course, still hesitant, and the trainer said if he didn't sell, he could stay with her for the winter and she would have him ridden and shown. Friend asked who would be covering the costs of this and trainer said friend wouldn't have to pay- they would adjust his sale price accordingly to make sure trainer recouped what she needed. (Let me interject at this point and say that if she even THINKS about doing this, she will have a VERY SPECIFIC contract drawn up, signed and notarized, we've at least learned that much.)
                      Huge red flag: That the trainer will have the horse ridden and shown for the winter, if he doesn't sell. Honey, this trainer has no intention of selling said horse. She wants something nice for her or for clients to ride/show, and then will probably hand your friend back her horse at the end of the season, used up, or lame, or just because "he's not quite what we were looking for, after all". Don't do this!

                      We've discussed the things that could happen with that arrangement-
                      Horse goes down, sells, friend hauls back. No problem.
                      Horse goes down, gets hurt in trailer, has to haul home with horse, loses big bucks.
                      Horse goes down, doesn't sell, trainer shows and sells. No problem.
                      Horse goes down, doesn't sell immediately, trainer shows, doesn't sell, trainer wants money, friend gets screwed.
                      Horse goes down, doesn't sell immediately, trainer does nothing with horse all winter, friend has to go get "un-bettered" horse, loses big bucks.
                      Sorry, but looking at this list, it seems to me that there are only two out of the five probabilities you've mentioned, that actually benefit your friend. Not the sort of odds I'd want, if I were she. Again, don't do this!

                      Lucky for me, it's not my horse, so I can see both sides of it. I asked my trainer about it today (who is totally unrelated to the situation) and he said he's shipped horses to FL before, he covered shipping, barn took horse on "care lease," no cost to the seller, kept horse for contracted amt. of time and sold it.
                      Yes, but your friend isn't dealing with your trainer. Doesn't really matter what he'd do, does it?

                      I like the $1000 deposit idea.
                      Drop in the bucket. Think of how many thousands your friend stands to lose if things go pear shaped.

                      Good points as far as hotel and vet costs etc. All things I didn't think about.

                      Okay, continue.
                      Another option - if the trainer is so sure that the horse will be what this teenager needs, have mom and teenager fly up to try horse. If I read correctly, this is the main client who wants the horse, right? Doesn't mean the trainer has to come, especially if your friend's trainer is teen's trainer's mom; presumably, they teach the same. That way, if kid and horse don't click, no one's out anything except the mom & kid - which is how it should be.

                      Or, how about a six month lease, for season? Calculate a reasonable lease fee, collect in advance with signed lease contract, and ship horse down. Horse comes back at the end of the season if it doesn't work, and gets sold if it does.

                      Good luck. And don't let that horse out of your sight.
                      In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
                      A life lived by example, done too soon.
                      www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Why doesn't the trainer just buy the horse and have it shipped to her? Then she can resell it since she is SO sure it will sell. Where in FL is this trainer? Sounds like a situation (mess) my friend got in with a local hunter trainer..same situation sort of. Sounds like same person. Friend got screwed.
                        Horses are the way into a woman's heart!

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Lease without seeing the facilities or meeting the leasor? maybe for a show season with multiple riders? and in who knows what shape at the end of season?

                          No, no, no... not without a sizable insurance policy... and not if the owner cares at all about making sure her horse and new owner are a decent match.
                          Nevertheless, she persisted.

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Although the idea of a free winter in FL is very appealing, I would be hesitant. Very hesitant. "I have a bunch of buyers for your horse" is one of those canned trainer statements just like "I'm honest" and "your horse will be ridden every day by me personally." Seriously, they rehearse these lines in front of the mirror along with "I'm a great trainer and people like me."

                            If your friend isn't in the position to a: check on the horse regularly if it doesn't sell and/or b: take a thin, sour, sore horse back unsold in the spring, it's a big risk.

                            Good luck!

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              I shall bring out, once more, the words of wisdom my very very wise mother taught me: When In Doubt....Don't

                              It applies to so very many situtions..... like this one!
                              <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by SleepyFox View Post
                                Seriously, they rehearse these lines in front of the mirror along with "I'm a great trainer and people like me."


                                !
                                you just made Cuervo Black come up outta my nose....

                                Tamara in TN
                                Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                                I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by At1Dressage85 View Post
                                  Why doesn't the trainer just buy the horse and have it shipped to her? Then she can resell it since she is SO sure it will sell. Where in FL is this trainer? Sounds like a situation (mess) my friend got in with a local hunter trainer..same situation sort of. Sounds like same person. Friend got screwed.
                                  EXACTLY.
                                  This whole thing reeks. Too many things can go wrong, and WILL go wrong. Too many variables to take the chance. If these people are worth their salt they will come to HER. I don't believe the trainer has any intention except to use said horse, possibly sell it out from under your friend..and there is absolutely no benefit to your friend. Keep the horse on it's home soil and sell it locally or to someone who will come view it themselves. This is just ridiculous.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by ESG View Post
                                    Huge red flag: That the trainer will have the horse ridden and shown for the winter, if he doesn't sell. Honey, this trainer has no intention of selling said horse. She wants something nice for her or for clients to ride/show, and then will probably hand your friend back her horse at the end of the season, used up, or lame, or just because "he's not quite what we were looking for, after all". Don't do this!
                                    This would be my fear as well.
                                    Auventera Two:Some women would eat their own offspring if they had some dipping sauce.
                                    Serious Leigh: it sounds like her drama llama should be an old schoolmaster by now.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      OK, the world is safe... because...

                                      I did ask a seller to trailer a horse down from Columbus Ohio to my farm here in Northern Kentucky, it's about an hour and a half. He was a cheap horse, and the owners wanted to see where he was going to live (he was the college bound girl's first show horse). I told them that if I liked him, I'd write them a check and if I didn't, they'd have $100 for their trouble. They brought him, I bought him. I bought both my haffie ponies who came from western ky, over 4 hours away, the same way, except after I saw the decrepit truck and trailer, I added a $100 for gas to the purchase price (a four hour one way trip costs me way more per hour than that). But... unless this was a quite expensive horse, that the trainer was pretty damn sure that was going to be sold, at the very least, the owner should have a check for the amount of the haul and at least two days lodging paid in advance buy the prospective purchaser. This money, can then be deducted from the purchase price of the horse, except for the shipping cost of getting the horse down there (I shipped one from FL to KY two years ago via Sallee, paid $450) which should be borne by the buyer anyway. That way, your friend is out her time, but not any money. If it is a cheap horse and they haven't seen a video and your friend has ANY doubts that this horse is on a one way trip, then she needs to take a pass.

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by 2ndyrgal View Post
                                        I did ask a seller to trailer a horse down from Columbus Ohio to my farm here in Northern Kentucky, it's about an hour and a half. He was a cheap horse, and the owners wanted to see where he was going to live (he was the college bound girl's first show horse). I told them that if I liked him, I'd write them a check and if I didn't, they'd have $100 for their trouble. They brought him, I bought him. I bought both my haffie ponies who came from western ky, over 4 hours away, the same way, except after I saw the decrepit truck and trailer, I added a $100 for gas to the purchase price (a four hour one way trip costs me way more per hour than that). But... unless this was a quite expensive horse, that the trainer was pretty damn sure that was going to be sold, at the very least, the owner should have a check for the amount of the haul and at least two days lodging paid in advance buy the prospective purchaser. This money, can then be deducted from the purchase price of the horse, except for the shipping cost of getting the horse down there (I shipped one from FL to KY two years ago via Sallee, paid $450) which should be borne by the buyer anyway. That way, your friend is out her time, but not any money. If it is a cheap horse and they haven't seen a video and your friend has ANY doubts that this horse is on a one way trip, then she needs to take a pass.
                                        Sounds too complicated to me. Life is stressful enough. She should pass on this "offer". But she will do what she wants to do, regardless of what everyone advises.
                                        Horses are the way into a woman's heart!

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          If it looks like fish and smells like fish IT IS FISH...as a lawyer in Florida who handles these time of issues when the deal goes bad (and no one ever wins) and as someone who has been in Florida for 25+ years.....this IS not what you want to do.....Tell the trainer if one of her clients comes she can tack on whatever extra she wants so long as you get X dollars.......don't fall for this

                                          If it is a sure deal then it can be done the old fashion way!

                                          Comment

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