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Games Trainers Play: The Florida Horse Saga

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  • Wow. I don't think I've ever heard of such a mess!

    I've been asked several times to let horses (that I represent for sale) go on trial and have always said a polite but firm 'no'. Buyers are welcome to come and ride the horse multiple times, bring their trainer, etc. but letting them off the property is just so risky - potential injury, bad training, non-payment, liability...it's just not worth it. I may have lost some sales that way, but after reading this thread, I realize that my gut was right when it told me to stand firm.

    I truely hope things work out - but it's time to get tough with these people. They have had more than enough time. I can't believe that no one down there (trainer, etc) is standing up for the seller. Does kind of make you think that there may be something else going on... my opinion, don't even offer a lease - demand a full commitment/payment for the horse (at the price agreed on when he left her farm - she potentially wouldn't have even let him leave for a lower price) or he is going home - at their expense - immediately. This horse was not for lease, he was for sale. What is there to lose? The sale not going through? If these people aren't in love w/ him by now, it won't happen anyway - and in the meantime, she's risking him becoming less saleable by the day due to bad training, care, etc. She still owns this guy, so the control over this situation is still hers, don't let her forget that. Good luck!!!
    Last edited by Blacktree; Jan. 5, 2008, 11:41 AM.
    Blacktree Farm
    Lessons, Training & Sporthorse Sales.
    Blacktree Studio
    Graphic Design, Web Design & Photography.


    • Ok, I am not far from Wellington, PLEASE can I go check on the horse???? Pretty please??? <Mwuuuuhahahahahahaaa> Just tell me where he is supposed to be and I'm there! PM me if you need to....
      Monty & Theo http://community.webshots.com/album/...tneese?start=0



      • Original Poster

        I just called her and said "You're NOT going to like this, but sit down, shut up and listen to me."

        I then relayed every horror story or potential for horror story you guys have sent this way and told her that I have had MANY offers to have someone go check on the horse and we could send someone as an "agent" for her to make sure the horse was where it was supposed to be and whatnot.

        Anyway, I guess shes supposed to talk to them this evening and I told her she needs to absolutely lay the smack down on them and insist on at least partial payment NOW. She said she'd call me later and let me know how its going and decide whether to send a COTHer out there. (Which, by the way, is so incredibly generous of all of you to offer- I know how busy *I* am in a day, I can't imagine someone graciously giving up their time to go check on some random, less-than-intelligent-person's horse in FL.)

        I also told her to call her trainer up in IL and read her the riot act about her daughter and see if she has anything to say about the run around that shes getting.

        Hopefully an update to come after that.

        OH, and apparently the original, settled upon cost (x) was $1000 more than what I thought- so the "we'll give you "thismuch" right now was acutally FIFTEEN HUNDRED DOLLARS less than the agreed upon price.

        Big Idea Eventing


        • Do you think that she would have even agreed to send him down there for the price that they are offering now?
          Blacktree Farm
          Lessons, Training & Sporthorse Sales.
          Blacktree Studio
          Graphic Design, Web Design & Photography.


          • Originally posted by frugalannie View Post
            Something that Goeslikestink said resonated with me. I'm thinking these people are flipping the horse: they don't even own him, and they've probably got someone else trying him who needs to go to one show.
            This is my choice...since this is a so called "Pro" (and I use the term in the loosest possible way) I would give you 50-1 the horse is being tried by others and may not even be on the property. They are flipping it and trying to get it done as cheaply as possible.

            Think about it-they cannot afford the purchase but want to go pay for a show. Hmmm...wonder what the REAL price they are getting for the horse is and how much they are going to pocket?

            Friend needs to knock the rocks out of her head, just say NO to the show and stop letting these con artists and liars jerk her around.


            It's going to get worse too...the next step is "OH WAIT FOR THE TAX REFUND".
            When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

            The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


            • Original Poster

              Originally posted by WarmbloodColor View Post
              Do you think that she would have even agreed to send him down there for the price that they are offering now?
              No. And, she is, in fact, quite insulted by the counter offer.

              And she doesn't even know if the horse has been vetted yet...
              Big Idea Eventing


              • Trust me this is exactly what they are doing!! Sadly, I know from first hand experience and ditto to everything findeight said!!!!!

                Also, since this horse has crossed state lines, the Dept of Justice considers this type of deal 'illegal'.....and yep, know about this first hand too!!!! Same exact thing happened to me!!
                Debbie Hanson


                • Did I miss something? Whatever happened to the check these people sent her? Did she not deposit or cash it, ever?

                  This girl needs to grow a spine, either get her horse back or cash wired to her account. Yesterday. I would take up those kind offers from Florida COTHers who have offered to check up on the horse.

                  This is why I would NEVER let a horse out of my sight on trial. EVER.
                  Last edited by ThreeFigs; Jan. 5, 2008, 11:56 AM. Reason: addition


                  • Yep, she needs to stand firm by the agreement (and price) that was made when he left her hands (she did have a contract, correct?). She doesn't have to do anything that these people have suggested after that... That was the arrangement or he wouldn't have left, period. They don't like it, too bad - the horse is going home. These people need to be expected to behave like adults and either honor what they agreed to or lose their toy.
                    Blacktree Farm
                    Lessons, Training & Sporthorse Sales.
                    Blacktree Studio
                    Graphic Design, Web Design & Photography.


                    • Original Poster

                      Originally posted by WarmbloodColor View Post
                      Yep, she needs to stand firm by the agreement (and price) that was made when he left her hands (she did have a contract, correct?). She doesn't have to do anything that these people have suggested after that... That was the arrangement or he wouldn't have left, period. They don't like it, too bad - the horse is going home. These people need to be expected to behave like adults and either honor what they agreed to or lose their toy.
                      You know, I sure think she had a contract, she told me she did, and theres no way our trainer at school (totally unrelated) would have let her send the horse without one... but really, how much does a contract drawn up by a 22 year old hold up? Even if signed and notarized by both parties?
                      Big Idea Eventing


                      • She's of legal age, doesn't matter if she's 18 or 58. I've been following this thread and I am just in shock that she is taking it up the tailpipe like she is. They've changed his name, feed, supplements, had him for the full trial period and with NO money given, lowballing her on price and now they want to take him to another show?? Excuse me but F*** NO. I agree with the others who say she needs to have a lil chat with them tonight and tell them either the money gets wired tomorrow (and SHE sets the price, not them), or the horse is on a trailer TOMORROW. .. or she calls the authorities for theft. These folks are jerking her around and only God knows what is happening to her horse. He may be injured and they don't want her to know. I'd be paranoid as all get out. But then I would have never, ever sent a horse down for a trial period so far away. I hope the horse is okay, and I'd definitely take up the offers from one of the COTH'rs down there to go check up on the horse. I'd be heartily suspicious that the horse is being flipped too. She needs to put her foot in their proverbial backsides and either get the money or her horse back.


                        • Friend is in a position to be held liable if horse gets hurt or hurts somebody at that upcoming show. There is NO WAY it should go there without a specific release of liability signed by whever is going to be signing that entry form as responsible party-and Lord knows who that may actually be as I doubt that horse is where it is supposed to be.

                          Time to put an end to this con game. Or continue being just another mark and getting screwed.

                          It won't stop unless friend steps in and stops it. She has been lied to from the get go and is beyond help if she thinks that's going to change.

                          Problem is, we know who suffers most in these shady dealings-the HORSE that is not where it is supposed to be and the naive owner who never sees horse again and never gets paid for it but can get a bill for damages or vet work.

                          Has to stop.
                          When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                          The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


                          • at this point I doubt if she'll ever see her horse or her money. The horse - with who knows what name - will have a so-sorry bout of colic in a few weeks, die a tragic death... and another plain bay, adequate horse with a unremarkable name will show up in a stall somewhere.

                            She wanted to get rid of her horse ... she has. (Sorry, I'm not feeling very sympathetic to her at this point. She wanted money and isn't even getting that. Poor horse...)
                            Nevertheless, she persisted.


                            • She has a check in hand. If I'm not mistaken, that is a form of contract. They agreed to buy the horse at the price on the check. Has she tried to cash the check? You can't send someone a check knowing it's not good or knowing you are going to put a stop payment.

                              She is being jerked around. I mean really! They sent her a check and are now negotiating? Deposit the check. When it comes back ISF, she can then sue them for the money. Unless, of course, she wants the horse back. But that check stamped ISF would hold up in court. She could also get her fees for the bounced check.


                              • I don't think she's actually ever received a check... even tho' she suggested to epona that she had. Didn't she later backtrack on that claim?

                                ETA ... post #373 from epona

                                (She did tell me she had a check in her hand... I guess she lied or they were going to wire it or whatever...)
                                Nevertheless, she persisted.


                                • Eponacowgirl, back when your friend was making negotiations, this exchange took place:



                                  First the buyer called (on Friday evening) and said they'd taken out insurance and shipper would be coming to pick up horse on Monday, they'd like to keep him until January 15 so daughter could show him and see how they do. And, oh, we DID agree on a price that is 3000 less than your asking price, right?

                                  She called back and said "No, I'm asking X, and there is NO WAY I can have this horse ready to ship on MONDAY. And NO, you cannot keep the horse for a month and half, ride it, show it, see how it places and then decide."

                                  Trainer calls "What do you mean you want X for the horse, you told me X-$3000 and you owe me a commission, BTW." Friend tells trainer "No, price I gave you was what I had to have when YOU were selling the horse and anything you added on was yours. Thank you, deal is off."

                                  Buyer calls back "Please, please, PLEASE let us try to work something out." Friend tells buyer that she'll take X-$1500, good middle of ground, is what she wanted for the horse originally. Buyer says "We'll pay that if you pay for half of shipping." Friend laughs and says "No way, deal is off." Friend contacts classmate who's parents are professional haulers and gets quoted shipping that is nearly half. Friend calls buyer and says "I found a shipper who is nearly half, here's the number, do what you'd like with it."


                                  Evidently, they always wanted the horse until January 15, and they got it. It would be interesting to know why that date is important.

                                  Also, in the above interchange, it looks like "buyer" called with very low price offer (friend refused), then "trainer" called to aggressively push friend on very low price, then "buyer" called, begging nicely for a less extreme low price, which buyer then accepted. That looks rather like an organized plan.

                                  Are "the buyers" paying (or did they pay with the check they sent) the low price that they originally said they would pay? I'm lost with the $(x-y) designations.

                                  It would be ironic if this same horse has been sold and resold more than once by this mother-daughter training team, since you say mother found horse for friend.

                                  Are they really mother and daughter?

                                  This being the Internet, we can't verify that anyone or anything is who or what they say they are. It may be that nothing in this story is as it sounds... but it sure is fun to read!

                                  If anyone from COTH gets involved IRL, though, they should be careful and keep their common sense about them... anyone getting involved in real life will not be acting in secret, their arrival on the scene will almost certainly be expected, since it is being discussed here.
                                  Last edited by Glenaerie; Jan. 5, 2008, 02:09 PM.


                                  • If anything, I think this thread should stick around with the title of "How NOT to sell your horse."

                                    This is stupid. I'll go pick him up myself.
                                    Adversity is the stone on which I sharpen my blade.


                                    • *Head-desk*

                                      I knew she was an IDIOT...but this just confirms it!

                                      God...poor horse!
                                      Only two emotions belong in the saddle: One is a sense of humor. The other is patience.


                                      • As everyone is, I'm horrified by this whole thing, and find I can hardly read it anymore. That said, I will share an experience I had selling a horse many years ago. I had a very nice event horse who I put with a trainer to sell. Said trainer was also a good friend. A trusted person came along, and trainer agreed to let the horse out on a trial, which I went along with. After a week, the person who had the horse on trial called and said they wanted the horse, had had him vetted, he had a little problem they wanted to negotiate about, and shared with me "oh by the way, they had stopped by a horse show on the way home with my horse and entered him in the place of a horse they had entered who went lame, and were just in love with him". I was just appalled, as that meant they had forged my signature as owner of the horse. I told them no, no negotiation and I was on my way to pick up the horse, that day. They wired me the full price that day, but I will never, ever send a horse out on a trial again.
                                        Mystic Owl Sporthorses


                                        • What a nightmare. Glad this isn't my problem
                                          Originally posted by barka.lounger
                                          u get big old crop and bust that nags ass the next time it even slow down.

                                          we see u in gp ring in no time.