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Baby Greenie Support Group now open: Share Your Pain!

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  • ...tell us more!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

    "Have You Hugged Your Trainer Today?"
    http://community.webshots.com/user/cotswoldjr
    http://temp.hillcresttrainingnet.off...m/default.aspx
    [url]
    Starman Babies

    Comment


    • Yes, Beezer, we want to hear about Hammie's show!

      Or Merry!??

      Robby, welcome to you and the lovely Kate.

      Comment


      • (...or is that assimilation....)

        [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

        but to be completely honest, the thread got too unweildy for me after the initial 10 pages or so. However, realizing that my resistance (to green horses [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]) is futile, I must seek the wisdom of the group.

        As some may recall, I ride a 5 y/o OTTB (Seven) after work. Very often, these rides are well after normal, sane folks are in bed, which invariably leaves me with no option but working in the indoor ring. Not very exciting stuff, but it WAS working out fine for all concerned until work (ick) interfered at the same time we moved the horses to the new barn (with its 35 minute drive time) and Seven ended up with an unscheduled and unsupervised extended holiday.

        Because he had some time off, everything is 'new' again. So, we have to work past the demons in the jump rail pile, the scary barn cats, and the spooky door... *sigh* But that's not really an issue.

        What is the problem is the length of time it takes him to settle and finally WORK each evening. Whenever I ride, he needs a certain amount to time to settle and 'get the bucks out'. I usually ride through this but my riding time is limited and our actual working time becomes fairly short. (E.g., it used to take 5 to 10 minutes of goofiness....now we are approaching 30 to 35 minutes of scooting, snorting, bucking, spinning, etc.) I know that eventually he'll come around but it's taking a lot of time and we're not making much progress. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] It doesn't help that I'm frequently more tired from the drive and my patience is dwindling (though I've managed to keep my composure while we're working together...or rather while I'm working and he's acting like an idiot [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]). It also doesn't help that I've noticed Seven has started not to find these sessions any more fun than I do. Our partnership is suffering as a result. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

        One solution (and something that worked when he first came off the track) is that he will settle into work much more quickly if I lunge first. I used this in the beginning not only to settle him but also because he had so much to learn so the lunge time was not really nutty time, it was 75% work and 25% goofiness. I'm worried that that ratio might reverse now because he simply does not have as much to learn and I'll end up with a fitter, disobedient horse who thinks that lunging is merely the time to act like a maniac.

        So, I'm not sure what to do....should I make him 'work' on the lunge (which then means that the lunging session becomes my whole ride time because I still have to make him settle before he can work)....or should I just give in, let him work some energy off on a short lunging session so that we can get the most progress out of our riding time?

        Thanks for letting me vent...sorry for the lengthy post....yet another drawback to riding late at night with no one else awake. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

        =^+^=

        [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] I just haven't been the same since that house fell on my sister. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

        Comment


        • We want details! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

          Serendipity, the first winter I had my TB mare, I always lunged her before getting on. This was not a work and learning lunge, it was simply a get-your-bucks-out-now kind of thing. I didn't lunge her long enough to make her fitter, usually five minutes or so in each direction did the trick. When she was ready to settle a bit and pay attention to me, I brought her right in and got on. (I tacked up first, then tied up my stirrups and put a halter over her bridle.) It seemed to really help her concentration level a lot.

          By the way, I recently reread an old article in Practical Horseman by Geoff Teall where he advocated use of what he called the "break all the rules lunge". Pretty much what I've described above. And since I spent a good deal of time last week watching him ride, I'm here to tell you, that man knows what he's doing (even if I often don't). [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]

          Good luck!
          www.laurienberenson.com

          Comment


          • I, too, am a late-night rider: I'm frequently pulling out my saddle at 8 p.m. or later. Being ridden under the lights at night -- oh my! -- was one of the tests Sam had to pass before he could take up permanent residence.

            I'm a big believer in the pre-ride lunge or turn-out. As in, just buck and squeal and get it all out of your system before I set foot in that stirrup. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] It just makes my life (and I'd like to think my horses' lives) easier. If the silliness (including seeing monsters in darkish corners) gets out of the way before I get on, we make much faster progress on real business. It just makes everyone happier all the way around than if I'm always dealing with the silly spooks.

            Now, as for those asking for details of Hammie's 2002 debut: I think Merry would like to put her on spin on it. I know Hammie did. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
            One thing that boy has to learn, though, is that objects on the ground are not going to magically morph into Hammie-eating dragons if he goes past them to jump the jump. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

            ***I see trees of green, red roses too. I watch 'em bloom for me and for you. And I think to myself ... what a wonderful world. Yes, what a wonderful world." -- Louie Armstrong.***
            Congratulate me! My CANTER cutie is an honor student at Goofball University!

            Comment


            • Although it irks me that Seven is outside ALL D@MN DAY, and stands around like a statue, saving all the bucking, spinning, squealing, and snorting for me, I'll go back to the pre-ride lunge for 5 minutes each way and see if that helps. I really do appreciate the input, because I was starting to worry that he might dump me off one of these nights and I would end up laying on the cold indoor floor until someone found my sorry carcass the next morning (no doubt wondering why I left all the lights on! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img])

              My only concern is that he can really tear around like an idiot when given the chance...any recommendations on how to keep him from injuring his body? He wears boots all around already...but ??? I wish we had a round pen...I'd rather see him burn off the energy in there then on the end of the line.

              Beezer! My virtual barn buddy! I will think of you when I ride now, since given my late hours, even WITH the time difference we are practically riding at the same time!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

              =^+^=

              [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] I just haven't been the same since that house fell on my sister. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

              Comment


              • Beezer, kick miss Merry into gear. We want details... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

                Serendipity how long must he lunge before being ridable? Any chance you can cut it in half, so you get some riding time? Also, sometimes feed can have those engines reving..Less protein maybe? Or anyone like a friend/buddy able to help you out just a little? Maybe give him a quick lunge during the day or put him in the round pen for you.

                Comment


                • Gee, Beezer. Thanks for the teaser!!! Ahem! Merry?!?!?! Get with the program here and give us all the juicy details!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

                  Serendipity - I second, third, etc. the suggestions of some play/romp/free time on the lunge - not enough to get him fitter, but enough that you aren't in fear of your life and limb, especially when riding alone.

                  Drum roll.....Here is an extremely UNFLATTERING picture of me and Gramento outside at The Barracks...You know - the one where he's doing the giraffe imitation. I can't believe how skinny he looks. I swear, he does lose weight at the shows - but not THAT much! He was only there one night! Note to self - need to get that jacket taken in... But, at least there is proof that I sat on my horse in rust breeches! Other note to self: get new boots - these are definitely too short...maybe when my investment account makes money again? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
                  \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

                  Comment


                  • Good Question, wtywmn4! (AND, as an added bonus, having to look up your name in the thread so I could spell it correctly, FINALLY clued me in as to what it probably means!! *feeling smart* A big day for Serendipity, all things considered. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img])

                    Anyway, I don't know how long it will take lunging time to 'get the bucks out' since I haven't really used lunging in that way with this horse. Seven's the kind of TB that will run himself into the ground rather then slow down (which is incidently how he was injured on the track and why I have him now). So, based on the input here, I'm going to try with 5-7 minutes in each direction and see how things go. (Worked late tonight, so no experimenting yet.)

                    Truly, when Seven was in consistent work last summer/fall, we didn't really have too many problems because the routine helped him settle. Now, I just have to get over the hump of the new place, the time off, etc. until hopefully we can get back into a routine where he's more settled.

                    Thanks again for the input, I'll try some lunging tomorrow (and tell my doubting inner voice to shut up when it taunts me that I'm making a nutty horse fitter [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]).

                    Duffy!! >> you and Gramento look magnificent!! What a handsome boy!! He looks a bit like Rex (especially with the skinny look)! How did the show go? Do you have other pictures from that show?

                    =^+^=

                    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] I just haven't been the same since that house fell on my sister. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

                    Comment


                    • I know, DUH!!! LOL
                      Elliot was a wee bit perturbed last night pre our lesson.
                      When I got on I was so tempted to get off and do a lunge, but it was lesson time and the ring had several horses going around. Elliot is not quite as bad as PPP with other horses around him, but I sometimes wonder....eeeek!!

                      So my most awesome Trainer told me to stay on and put Elliot to WORK. She had me push him on, sitting the trot if I felt safer, and start moving his head first out then in as we circled at the end of the arena [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
                      Of course she is so awesome and Elliot settled right down and thought about working instead of what everyone else was doing.
                      It also helps limber up a horse like him who tends to be stiff and stiff jawed at times.

                      We then worked at the canter doing a sitting canter and pushing and pushing on for three strides, then going into two point and coasting for three strides. Half the arena then the full arena.
                      This was quite a work out but lots of fun.
                      I really love these lessons.

                      We ended up the lesson trotting over a X rail then staying in canter over a small vertical at the end of the ring with a very loose rein and completeing the canter around the bend.
                      This really helped keep Elliot in the correct lead and helped me loosen up and let him take some initiative.
                      Now I could get some of these theories wrong in my translation here, haha I am 50 now....
                      But all in all this was a good lesson with some new tricks to try.
                      I like it when he is a bit naughty for me in a lesson because without my trainer there telling me what works for Elliot, I woudl prob just get off.
                      And then of course I am defeated... not good.

                      "Have You Hugged Your Trainer Today?"
                      http://community.webshots.com/user/cotswoldjr
                      http://temp.hillcresttrainingnet.off...m/default.aspx
                      [url]
                      Starman Babies

                      Comment


                      • Serendipity - another thing to consider is that you may be one of those unlucky owners of "not a winter horse"...

                        Not that any horse is stellar in the winter. After training my first greenie in winter (used to live in Ft. Lauderdale), I am starting to understand why people used to toss 'em out for the winter. It had NOTHING to do with giving the HORSE a mental and physical break, thank you very much!! I've come to the conclusion that training in winter is a whole lot about not losing ground.

                        Anyway, my old hunter Raven was so very NOT a fun horse in winter. Even in South Florida (it just didn't last as long down there). Even as a mature, thoroughly trained horse, he was never a lot of fun in the winter. There may have been some way to change it, but it didn't involve lunging or work. And it wasn't just freshness, it was like he was worried about life.

                        There was a thread on this topic not to long ago(probably on horse care) - may be worth checking out people's suggestions. I know we tried that Winter Companion supplement on a horse at the barn that seems to suffer from the same issues. Can't say it was a miracle cure, but it seemed to help a little...

                        Still waiting for Merry's version of the story... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]


                        "You can pretend to be serious; you can't pretend to be witty. "
                        - Sacha Guitry (1885-1957) *
                        Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

                        Comment


                        • I think Merry is going to come forth at the top of a new page, JMHO hahahaha [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

                          Also Duffy your photo was absolutely gorgeous dahling!!!

                          "Have You Hugged Your Trainer Today?"
                          http://community.webshots.com/user/cotswoldjr
                          http://temp.hillcresttrainingnet.off...m/default.aspx
                          [url]
                          Starman Babies

                          Comment


                          • I think Merry is gonna try using the old, "I've been busy!" excuse. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

                            Duffy, your boy is indeed gorgeous. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] And in other topics, I'd second the idea that there is such a thing as an "I don't do winters" horses. My cousin's horse, bless his soul, becomes a fire-breathing, snorting, impossible ditz-brain in winter; doesn't matter how much he's lunged/turned-out/ridden, he's a pain in the patootie. This is the same horse who will do long-stirrup/green rider classes all day long in the spring, summer and fall, but we've learned (the hard way) not to even bother in winter. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]

                            ***I see trees of green, red roses too. I watch 'em bloom for me and for you. And I think to myself ... what a wonderful world. Yes, what a wonderful world." -- Louie Armstrong.***
                            Congratulate me! My CANTER cutie is an honor student at Goofball University!

                            Comment


                            • Duffy, you and Gramento look wonderful. He certainly is a handsome horse, even if you feel he's a bit on the thin side - I'd call it winter fit. As soon as it warms up, I'd bet he'll start packing on the weight.

                              Then I love the rust breeches. They look so great that I can't understand the silly juniors who almost have a coronary at even a mention of them. It's their loss!

                              Merry, we're all waiting for your side of the story! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

                              Cheers, Maggi
                              Cheers, Maggi

                              Comment


                              • One solution, which works for SOME horses is to use lights to artificailly extend the day.

                                From 96 to 2000, Music couldn't canter from October to May. I put her under lights in August 2000, and she hasn't had a problem since.

                                She got 2 2nds and a 4th at Hazelwild in the Schooling Jumpers on Saturday, something that would have been impossible in February two years ago.

                                I don't know that this would work for a horse that gets hyper in the winter, but it is worth a try for one that gets grumpy in winter.
                                Janet

                                chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                                Comment


                                • Okay, I have a reasonably fast computer and a DSL line so I should be getting to the last page of the Baby Greenie thread pretty fast, but it does seem to take quite a while for Infopop to skim through the pages to get to that last one.

                                  Now, I wouldn't mind seeing multiple topics, but I'd like to see some sort of hint that they pertain to the Baby Green topic. Like, Baby Green - Starting Over Fences; Baby Green - Winter Exuberance; Baby Green - Showing Issues; Baby Green - Monsters in the Ring, etc. I think losing track of all the good stuff is the really main reason the posts stay on the one topic.

                                  Can anyone else think of ways to soothe Erin's nerves but keep the topic together - other than just continuing on through page 67 on the way to page 100 and even higher?
                                  Cheers, Maggi

                                  Comment


                                  • Merry and Beezer -

                                    You guys went to a horse show in that wind on Saturday?!?!?! And drove a horse trailer to get there? I got a call from the barn (in Riverside) that AM and was told to stay home (where, ironically, there was no wind whatsoever).
                                    The Evil Chem Prof

                                    Comment


                                    • That certainly is an interesting possibility. He's quite clearly lost his mind on some occasions, so that makes sense with DMK's 'worried about life' statement.

                                      This also is his first winter of work in the NE US. From what I understand about his history, he spent his racing winters in Florida, so he's never had to work through a northern winter. I got him last summer.

                                      Hopefully, we'll still be at the same barn next winter and I can see if there are any changes to his personality.

                                      I already feed Accel and have considered Winter Companion as a year 'round thing since these horses never see fresh grass except when traveling (dirt paddocks at the barn) but the everything in the Winter Companion was already in Accel (although not quite as much) so for the extra cost, I stopped considering it. For those who feed it, do you also feed Accel?

                                      I also thought about your posts, Janet, from the Lyme disease threads and the whole light issue. Because I get to the barn around 9-9:30 pm and keep the lights on until close to midnight, I'm sort of already doing that, just not as a true, structured program. I think it might be helping me some too, as I'm mildly afflicted with seasonal affective disorder.

                                      =^+^=

                                      [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] I just haven't been the same since that house fell on my sister. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

                                      [This message was edited by Serendipity on Feb. 12, 2002 at 05:47 PM.]

                                      Comment


                                      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JustaLurker:
                                        Okay, I have a reasonably fast computer and a DSL line so I should be getting to the last page of the Baby Greenie thread pretty fast, but it does seem to take quite a while for Infopop to skim through the pages to get to that last one.

                                        Now, I wouldn't mind seeing multiple topics, but I'd like to see some sort of hint that they pertain to the Baby Green topic. Like, Baby Green - Starting Over Fences; Baby Green - Winter Exuberance; Baby Green - Showing Issues; Baby Green - Monsters in the Ring, etc. I think losing track of all the good stuff is the really _main_ reason the posts stay on the one topic.

                                        Can anyone else think of ways to soothe Erin's nerves but keep the topic together - other than just continuing on through page 67 on the way to page 100 and even higher?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        Although I've only recently succumbed to the lure of the Support Group, I definitely think that there should be an 'identifier' in each heading. Since I'm most interested in reading any thread that deals with green horses, I'd rather know right off the bat that that's what they are about. It could be Baby Green...or even just BGSG.

                                        I have high speed connections (cable) both at work and home and this thread is a bit slower then all the rest, ESPECIALLY when I ask it to jump from page to page (I was trying to get a little history yesterday [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]).

                                        =^+^=

                                        [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] I just haven't been the same since that house fell on my sister. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

                                        Comment


                                        • Duffy you and Gramento are AWESOME and those rust breeches are to die for. Personally, can't fathom why they went out of vogue. But hey, what do I know. Have a pair hidden deep in the darkest part of my closet. They're being kept for posterity, and the possibility that they will come back!

                                          Serendipity, you do have your work cut out for you. Having no grass is something Calif. people deal with continually. We have a feed called All in One. An alfalfa meal, with molasses and several other hays ground up in it. Great for weight, less with energy boosters. This being feed in buckets, per horse, has helped with the lack of green plus seems to help the ones who are more tense.

                                          Comment

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