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Bush opens up a can of whoop a$$

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  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK:

    Our system of health care is clearly unhealthy in every possible aspect of the system. I doubt you will find too many people who are in the field to disagree with that statement. Nobody has any clue how to fix it to even the partial satisfaction of most of the parties, and most - myself included - are unsure about socialized medicine as a workable aspect for this nation. Still, Houston, we have a problem...

    As for rationing health care, it is indeed an uncomfortable thought, but to be quite honest, right now every American has their health care rationed. For the uninsured, the limits are obvious, for the insured, there are maximums on lifetime or annual coverage, limits on procedures and drugs, certain cutting edge care (experimental) is rarely covered, many optional procedures (cosmetic) are not covered and so on. They are just the limits we are familiar with, rather than the unknown limits.

    OK - back to the real subject before Erin comes and beats this post with a big stick [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    This link:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/10/business/10MEDI.html , does explain one reason why our system is unhealthy. Follow the money, but you already know that! I have not seen a system of socialized medicine that I could support. Do you have experience or links that would shed more light on the subject? I'm only familiar with the Canadian system.

    You are right on about rationed health care. It does already exist. My mother was lucky, her experimental chemotherapy was approved by the insurance company. Even with a generous health care plan my parents spent $60,000, out of pocket, for her treatment over a course of 3 years.

    SLW- dodging Erins stick! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]


    • Ahem...

      Can we get back to the original off-topic topic please? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]


      • It's become a ladies tea party and the conversation drifts. Wouldn't you rather we played nice than were calling each other awful things at war?

        There really is sort of a link because we're worried about all the anthrax costs related to the terrorist attacks. It also reflect the fact that since war has been declared the HMO can get off the hook with the act of war exemption, if they dare.

        And, how much more will insurance cost next year when they figure in all the costs from these terrorist attacks. Really it's not really off course, the horse is just wandering a little around the corners.
        http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org


        • Just a latteral drift---perhaps some intentional counter-bending has been added into the mix, but there is a logic to the progression...didn't I, in my original question to DMK about the health insurance issue, include the information that a band-aid from the ER in Ocala ended up costing well over $200, which my insurance company paid, and I am expected to pay a $50 co-pay on top of that??? Horse related because Anna cut her finger on a nameplate on a borrowed chain leadline at HITS-----! Such an off kilter price for a band aid, would certainly lead one to wonder how medication for anthrax might be viewed by the ins industry, and we all know how "perceived" risk (different in my mind than "actual, common-sense applied" risk) is viewed by ins companies as a license to raise rates through the roof....health insurance is hard to get in the horse industry---horse related, there you are bingo, on-topic! I rest my case.
          Inner Bay Equestrian


          • we ended up at the ER because the EMT at the show thought the end of my poor Anna's finger might have been crushed off, need stitches, etc....but the nurses just mushed it back together with gauze and a bandaid.
            Inner Bay Equestrian


            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snowbird:
              It's become a ladies tea party and the conversation drifts. Wouldn't you rather we played nice than were calling each other awful things at war?


              I don't know much about the Canadian health care system, but I'm betting that if I were poor, I'd prefer Canada's to the U.S.'s.

              Speaking of Canada, since the U.S. is SO scared of people smoking Hemp and getting tummy aches, why don't you Canadians, with your wonderful farmland and progressive ideas start developing Hemp oil cars! Hey you could make a lotta money too.

              I mean part of the U.S.'s problem is our dependence on foreign oil right??? Imagine if all our oil could be grown right here! Yeah, yeah yeah, I'm sure there could be some snags, but if we could put a man on the moon, then we can create hemp oil cars right?

              Betsy (in Md.) [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]
              The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde


              • Well, bgoosewood, that would only work if the oil companies do not currently hold the patents for hemp-oil fuel technology, as they do with clean fuel-cell patents, which they will not make available to industry.


                • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hobson:
                  Well, bgoosewood, that would only work if the oil companies do not currently hold the patents for hemp-oil fuel technology, as they do with clean fuel-cell patents, which they will not make available to industry.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                  I knew there was something I was missing!
                  BIG OIL
                  The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde


                  • bought and paid for the Bushes generations ago. The former chairman of Exxon and one of Senior's best friends is Ambassador to Great Britain. Both Bush and Cheney have been oilmen.

                    We've known about soy diesel for fifteen years, and corn gas. They are more expensive than oil but only because the technology is relatively new.

                    Big Oil probably owns Canada too.

                    We'll just have to wait for the Japanese to create the technology to free us from Big Oil.

                    Did you see Doonesbury Sunday?
                    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                    Thread killer Extraordinaire


                    • M.O'C - very clever - horse related AND related to the on-the-topic "Off topic" topic [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

                      Actually hospital billing is a creative sort of thing. All insurance carriers have contracted rates with their participating hospitals, and generally pay a flat rate, depending on severity of the case, for ER admissions, but it is unreasonable to expect a hospital to have a billing system that can handle hundreds of variations on billing (these case rates are a lot like snowflakes - you never see two the same [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] ). So they just bill something called "Reasonable & Customary" rates, which are generally derived from national rate tables (HIAA or MDR, in case you cared [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] ). Here's the thing though - since NOBODY pays 100% of R&C, that number is sort of artificially high. The insurer then calculates how much they are supposed to pay, and you end up with a statement that said you paid $50, the insurer paid $200 bucks and there is $58,067 left unpaid, which then confuses the hell out of you and makes you run for the family lawyer or stop answering your phones. In truth, nobody expects anyone to pay $58,067...

                      Now when you go to a hospital that the insurer does not have in its network, the hospital sends that full R&C bill to the insurer (or to you, and you promptly pass out), who generally only pays 70-80% of it, and generally the hospital accepts that amount. They then write off the 20-30% and the write off goes into calculating their DSH share of their Medicare payment. Basically that write off helps increase the payment from Medicare, which of course, comes out of our tax dollars. Fun, eh?

                      As for anthrax or other bioterrorism issues, if it became a widespread threat I do see a concerted effort by our (not strong) public health system to address that issue, simply because there are some things that you cannot let go unaddressed. Basically, it would be far more damaging to the economy to lose any portion of the workforce (see Dengue Fever in Central America, Carribean Islands), than it would be to cover the cost of treating the ill people. And of course, once the government says it will treat the uninsured population it's hard for them to a) not subsidize the insurers/doctors who are treating the insured folks or b) not treat them themselves.

                      Of course, you already knew that both increased our tax dollars and/or our premiums...
                      Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.


                      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> We've known about soy diesel for fifteen years, and corn gas <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        Heehee, that sounds like a vegetarian sickness!

                        "Doctor, I have a bad case of the corn gas." "Well, the only treatment your HMO covers is soy diesel"

                        The witchy witch witch of south central NC.
                        The witchy witch witch of south central NC.


                        • No way!!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]
                          Inner Bay Equestrian


                          • I needed some stitches when my dog accidentally slashed my wrist. I went to the ER since it was Saturday.

                            Very uncomplicated cut that needed eight stitches. The bill for ER and doctor was eleven hundred dollars. But I found that I could negotiate with the hospital and got the bill cut down by about 30%. The doctor bill goes through a different biller, and they won't talk about a reduction.

                            Remember that I'm uninsurable, so I don't have the options that insurance companies have to negotiate a reasonable charge for a fairly simple service.

                            Eleven hundred dollars for one cut needing eight stitches is absurd. What's funny is that the cut was on the back of my wrist, and the ER people were wondering if I had done it myself. On the back of the wrist? That would be dumb.

                            If biological warfare stays in the "homeland", the whole health provision system will be under a huge amount of stress, and the old ways of rationing care just won't work. IMHO, of course.
                            "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                            Thread killer Extraordinaire


                            • am only on page 16 and it is really spooky reading....
                              Inner Bay Equestrian


                              • I must tell you all that my final mission is this one. Did you know that you don't need oil at all? Did you know that there is a generator which will produce electricity for a community and it runs on manure?

                                Do you realize that if we all cooperated it is possible to have electric generators run by the manure from our horses and then have electricity to sell?

                                There were test generators built years ago, before you were born when we all stood in line at the gas stations because of the gas shortage. They ran a generator for a town of 1200 homes all fueled by cow manure, and horse manure has even more methane.

                                Now, if we converted the world into thinking manure we wouldn't need to buy any oil from anyone and all that black stuff would stay in the ground. If those middle east countries didn't feel they had money faucet to turn on whenever they wanted, they might be compelled to develop economic policies that would help their people.

                                And, just project the benfit to the horse world! No longer would a horse be valuable because of how high, or how wide or even how fast it was. Imagine a world where horses were valued by the amount of manure they produced per day. No more starving horses ever again! No more killing them for meat!

                                A simple solution to end the rule of big oil, make the horses happy and have free elctricity. Could you dream of more?
                                http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org


                                • Names, places, dates....*Which gas shortage? What town? Where can one obtain such a generator? (*The one in '73?-ish where I got to stay the weekends at my trainer's barn for upwards of a year because my parents could only fill the gas tank so often and no more? I kind of enjoyed that one....)
                                  Inner Bay Equestrian


                                  • There is an Australian company that created a generator to convert hog waste to electricity. They pump in manure from the lagoons of hog waste, which is inceinerated, and somehow produces energy. They are focusing on NC. I'm not sure how far along their technology is or how effcient it is, but anything that cleans up hog waste and produces power is OK with me!

                                    And it would be good to diversify our energy supply from being so based on fossil fuels. It isn't just environmental, it's an economic issue. I am very surprised our gas prices aren't thru the roof. We are just so dependent on one limited commodity that any kink in the line (ie, friction in the middle east) could darn near bankrupt us and our economy. If we had several viable sources (hemp, manure, solar) being worked on, we'd have a back up. I hear numbers regarding the war - a few billion to airports, a few billion for new vaccines, a few billion for this and that.... well, a few billion toward some research on alternative energies would be great to get us off of foreign oil - instead, (and Bill Clinton is as guilty as Bush) we continue to cut funding to alternative energy resource development, while giving way more money to fund oil exploration.

                                    Well, how does this relate to the war? We wouldn't have to depend on a volatile area for a large portion of our economy. I can't believe that OPEC hasn't jacked up the oil prices, and what's to say that if we spend a bit too much time over there or say the wrong thing or bomb the wrong village that they won't....

                                    The witchy witch witch of south central NC.
                                    The witchy witch witch of south central NC.


                                    • Danish plant converts hog waste into gas, water.(Brief Article)
                                      Issue: Feb 15, 2000

                                      A Danish firm is marketing a new "bio-plant" that can convert pig waste into water, gas and manure, saving farms from pollution problems and storage costs.

                                      "Our system filters and refines usable elements in pig slurry, changing the animals' stinking excreta into water, gas energy and fertilizer manure," says managing director Poul Ejnar Rasmussen of Bioscan, the firm manufacturing the slurry separator system.

                                      "The system does away with the need for slurry tanks and the smell they cause, piping off recyclable elements in the slurry for further use," Rasmussen says.

                                      Bioscan's slurry plant is currently undergoing tests in central Denmark, tapping excreta from some 20,000 pigs, providing energy to a local electricity works and heating to five farms, and water of drinking quality.

                                      Interest from abroad has been considerable, and plants are to be set up in Japan and the United States next year, Rasmussen says.

                                      --@griculture [Online.sup.TM]


                                      COPYRIGHT 2000 Meredith Corporation

                                      COPYRIGHT 2000 Gale Group

                                      "The optimist fell ten stories,
                                      And at each window bar,
                                      He shouted to the folks inside,
                                      'Doing alright so far!'"

                                      Age is a very high price to pay for maturity.


                                      • 100 Questions and Answers about Arab Americans

                                        [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] I need a keeper! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]
                                        "If you would have only one day to live, you should spend at least half of it in the saddle."


                                        • Thanks- I didn't know there were other manufacturers of this system. What a great idea. I hope it catches on in the US. Our tanks for hog waste are actually open "ponds" which lead to huge environmental problems... especially when they flood. ewe.

                                          The witchy witch witch of south central NC.
                                          The witchy witch witch of south central NC.