• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Bush opens up a can of whoop a$$

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Bush says "No"

    Re health insurance--

    Doesn't anyone think it's odd that we all know the private insurance system sucks, that we are the only Western/industrialized nation in the WORLD that doesn't guarantee health care to all its citizens, and yet we don't even consider the alternatives to what we have.

    On the same lines, we are the only industrialized nation in the West to cling to capital punishment. Yet we have one of the highest crime rates in the world.

    Is there some strange disconnect in our thinking processes?
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire

    Comment


    • Vineyridge - here's some stats you can noodle over...

      USA
      IMR is 7 (IMR = infant mortality rate)
      Life expectancy is 77
      Health Expenditure as % of GDP is 14
      Actual $$ per person is $4,090

      in contrast...

      Japan
      IMR is 4
      life expectancy is 80.3
      health expenditures as a % of GDP is 7.2
      Actual expenditure per person is $1,741

      and for giggles....

      Malaysia
      IMR is 10
      life expectency is 72
      health expenditures as a percent of GDP is Zippo

      So best as I can tell, we spend a lot more to die earlier than people who spend a lot less, and we get to live a little bit longer than those who have not even catagorized how little they spend on health care.

      Snowbird - you can self insure - MSA's are part of Medicare, and have been for a few years - part of the BBA '97 act...
      Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

      Comment


      • CNN says he died
        "If you would have only one day to live, you should spend at least half of it in the saddle."

        Comment


        • and thanks, DMK, for those stats - i think if more US citizens knew the numbers (especially those high infant mortality figures) compared with other countries in the "developed" and "undeveloped" world, attitudes might change.....maybe.

          Comment


          • More rates to look at. In the USA it appears we have made great progress DECREASING the IMR since the 1950's in spite of more drug and alcohol abuse by pregnant mothers. I left school district work as the second wave of crack baby's became "of age" so I was surprised to see the low number.

            http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/datawh/statab/pubd/hus98t23.htm

            Some Canadian proviences have very high IMR stats....

            http://www.statcan.ca/english/Pgdb/P...h/health21.htm

            And for country's IMR rankings look at this link. It puts things into perspective.

            http://www.bartleby.com/151/a28.html

            SLW

            Comment


            • But isn't one of the main hang-ups health care reform stalls in the U.S. is because any meaningful reform will have to include discussion of health care rationing? For example, we would have to talk about who could receive some of the more expensive procedures, like organ transplants. Or how much we were willing to spend when someone's fertility treatment results in the birth of 7 or 8 critically premature infants.

              Even liberal tree-hugging me has trouble with that one. In theory, I could set limits. But if it were my elderly parents being told "no", things would look a little different.

              Anyone know how the Japanese are able to control costs?

              Comment


              • or at world rates, of course they're not. But even with those stats (which does show a decline in us rates to 6.8), most western european countries are between 4 and 5, and canada is at 5 (yes, some provinces are higher but that is because of some regions being poorer than others, not because they have privatized medicine)...can the us really claim their medical system works better? are they satisfied with that rate of infant death?

                oh and by the way, Cuba is just over 7 despite the prolonged period of US embargo....

                Comment


                • that Japan spends less on health care because of the way they live. The traditional Japanese diet is mostly rice, vegetables and fish and they also use alternative medicine for chronic conditions. In the last 10 or 20 years, many Japanese have adopted a more "western" diet, which consists of lots of Montana steaks, and their rates of heart disease have risen quite a bit.
                  Betsy (in Md.) who also likes tofu ....not like a granola health girl, but like a Japanese snack. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
                  The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

                  Comment


                  • SLW - nobody is arguing that starving countries have a higher IMR than the US - that might possibly fall into the "no duh" category. And nobody - least of all me - is arguing that this is not a great country. In fact I would venture to suggest that our system of free market medicine has helped with a lot of great advances in research.

                    Conversely, I do not believe that anyone should hold our health stats up to the rest of the developed world as superior in any way, as that flies in the face of logic (never mind provinces in Canada, try suburbs in Detroit and the Ozarks - EVERY country has variations, but as long as the same sampling logic is applied universally, the variations are equal). Nor should we solely take claim for all the great advances in medicine as a result of our free market system (which if you understand health care delivery, is clearly not so free market).

                    Our system of health care is clearly unhealthy in every possible aspect of the system. I doubt you will find too many people who are in the field to disagree with that statement. Nobody has any clue how to fix it to even the partial satisfaction of most of the parties, and most - myself included - are unsure about socialized medicine as a workable aspect for this nation. Still, Houston, we have a problem...

                    Interestingly enough, that decline in IMR has been almost the sole reason the average age life expectancy has "increased". Take away IMR deaths and look at the life expectancy, and you will find that we do not live that much longer than we did 75 years ago. Interesting considering how much we spend on trying to live longer.

                    As for rationing health care, it is indeed an uncomfortable thought, but to be quite honest, right now every American has their health care rationed. For the uninsured, the limits are obvious, for the insured, there are maximums on lifetime or annual coverage, limits on procedures and drugs, certain cutting edge care (experimental) is rarely covered, many optional procedures (cosmetic) are not covered and so on. They are just the limits we are familiar with, rather than the unknown limits.

                    OK - back to the real subject before Erin comes and beats this post with a big stick [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
                    Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

                    Comment


                    • No one beats the U.S. when it comes to emergency care, trauma, etc., but when it comes to preventative care and chronic conditions....we need some improvement.

                      Betsy (in Md.)
                      The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

                      Comment


                      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Anyone know how the Japanese are able to control costs? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        Easy, they don't eat a double whopper with cheese, biggie fries, washed down with a 1/2 gallon of coke for lunch...

                        I am also amazed at how many people don't exercise in this country, especially young people. I'm an overweight person - mainly cause I wash my veggie burger down with a 1/2 gallon of coke... and I am shocked by how many "normal" people can't keep up with me on a hike, or a bike ride. Even the young people I'm in school with don't exercise - then they smoke and never eat veggies - a recipe for heart disease and diabetes.

                        The witchy witch witch of south central NC.
                        The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

                        Comment


                        • I'd be riding to the doctor.

                          How about health department clinics for most things, and universal single pay basic and preventative care, including mental, dental and vision, paid for out of employment (SS type) tax dollars, with government funding for the working poor and the unemployed and retired? With an annual maximum per individual?

                          Private catastrophic insurance (like current cancer and nursing home insurance) for those who can afford it? So we can continue to ride our horses, ski, and play sports.

                          Home health care for the aged. Hospice care for the dying.

                          Education, so we can all understand that one human life is not worth infinite cost--that death is a part of life, not to be feared. That humans don't have the right to life at the expense of the community. Courses in death and dying, parenting, and basic health in all high schools. This can be paid for by de-emphasizing contact sports.

                          Health care is already rationed for many Americans simply because of the cost.

                          I have a bone to pick with the system because I'm personally uninsurable except in the State's high risk pool--and that would cost 4 grand or so a year.

                          Saw last night on the news projections of a 15 percent increase in insurance costs for large companies, and up to doubling for small employers.

                          The system really is broke,just like the USET.

                          (Notice horses mentioned thrice in this post)
                          "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                          Thread killer Extraordinaire

                          Comment


                          • SLW...

                            Thank you!

                            But, it's hard to keep your head up when you know the people involved. And they just shut down all of capitol hill... all House and Senate offices.

                            Sirens are wizzing around every two seconds.

                            I'm not panicked... I can't be when there's not a single thing I can do. But I am damn concerned and scared.

                            Comment


                            • It's 3.5, almost half of the US rate. That's impressive.

                              Comment


                              • I think the reason that the US has high infant mortality rates compared to Sweden etc. is because it has some high poverty rates, and even if you aren't impoverished, it doesn't necessarily mean you can afford health care.
                                If you don't have insurance and can barely afford food, rent and transportation, you may not be able to afford prenatal care. There are many many people in this country barely getting by, but not so poor as to qualify for medicare. They work in stores, restaurants, clean houses and motels and work other low paying jobs. In Sweden, the govt. provides them health care, but in the US, it comes out of their pocket (if they can afford it).

                                There really aren't easy solutions - we either need to stay status quo, and hope people will move up the latter, require employers to pay a living wage, or we need to cover these "social" costs as a society. Basically, we are getting away with paying people less than they need to survive, and sooner or later, we need to make that up, be it thru higher medical costs because of high numbers of people not being able to pay bills, higher taxes, or higher prices for goods and services that underpaid people provide (or we just need to accept the social problems like high rates of infant mortality as a cost of our "system").

                                The witchy witch witch of south central NC.
                                The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

                                Comment


                                • Karen Armstrong is on the NPR show Fresh Air RIGHT NOW! She is a completely brilliant scholar of religion, and is talking about Qutb and the rise of Islamic fundamentalism. Very good! To tune in on your 'puter, go to WHYY here:

                                  http://www.whyy.org/91FM/live.html

                                  Some public radio stations air Fresh Air twice a day - try to catch it later if you can't listen now, or check out the archived NPR shows on their web site for other Armstrong appearances on Fresh Air.

                                  Whoops, just realized that this might be an old show that WHYY is airing now - they are doing a membership drive, so if you are not in the Philly area, you may be getting a different Fresh Air.

                                  Comment


                                  • ...but, how will our "system" of health care function if such exposures become commonplace? It's pretty clear that early treatment is very desirable...but the way the system is set up, waiting till a condition is advanced and then seeking ER care is the common practice for the uninsured, and for the insured, "unnecessary" care is discouraged by most HMO plans, where "better safe than sorry" type logic does not seem to apply! Also, I'm wondering if that pesky formulary of mine includes Cipro on its list...
                                    Inner Bay Equestrian
                                    Facebook
                                    KERx

                                    Comment


                                    • Our NPR station in Charlotte is doing a fund drive right now. Every morning this week I am awakened by "If we can just get 10 pledges in the next 10 minutes, we'll be so happy!" "OOOOOOOooooo, now we only need 8 more, keep calling in!" "Only 3 minutes left, that's 2 calls a minute, c'mon, you can do it".

                                      Maybe we can have NPR take over the afghan radio station. They'll surrender after listening to one day of the fund drive....

                                      The witchy witch witch of south central NC.
                                      The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

                                      Comment


                                      • you're right, poverty does prevent people from getting adequate prenatal care - canada is a poorer country than the usa but we have a lower rate because we don't have private medical insurance. So it puzzles me why the us hangs on to that system, despite the evidence of the harm it does - not to the rich, but to the poor. It's not because private medical insurance is cheaper, because it's not....

                                        Comment


                                        • I think it is the whole free market thing. I think most americans feel our government is very incompetant and inefficient at providing services, and would rather rely on competition between corporations to ensure quality service than the government... and there is a lot of fear of "socialism" in this country. Any attempt to help the poor - living wages, gvt healthcare etc. is seen as socialism, which is a threat to the free market, and hence, democracy. Which I think stinks, but then again, I complain about taxes being too high....

                                          The witchy witch witch of south central NC.
                                          The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X