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  • Ideas can be very dynamic things, when people start to think for themselves they stop being sheep. We are watching an awakening, who knows where it will take us?
    http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org


    • So how many pages is it to print this thread?
      I keep being late to work 'cause I have to read "just one more reply"... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]I wish I had been able to read this thread whenI was a teenager - though I had heard that "all the hunter/jumper guys are gay" I hadn't heard a peep about the possibility of women riders being gay, or event riders - and when I came out in college my school was building a beautiful new barn, but hadn't yet funded a women's studies department, so the campus political lesbians were pissed, and it sealed my belief that it was an either/or thing. Sigh. Now - 15 years later- I have a wonderful partner - and we're thinking of taking up my Vermont justice-of-the-peace aunts' offer to civil union us- and am back into riding (more eventing than showing, but y'all have far cooler discussions here, even aside from this one [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] )But I still don't know where all the lesbians are - esp since so many women with horses have sensible hair, look other women in the eye when conversing, and kick butt with basic physical labor competencies - all tendencies I learned long ago to associate with lesbians. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] So much for my alleged gaydar. Hope my smilies are showing up - guess I need to check out the tutorial on them instead of going to work now...



      • Really, now. Everyone knows the t.p. should fall over the roll. How else can the cleaning lady fold the end into the nice little "V"?


        • Original Poster

          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ponygyrl:
          [But I still don't know where all the lesbians are - esp since so many women with horses have sensible hair, look other women in the eye when conversing, and kick butt with basic physical labor competencies - all tendencies I learned long ago to associate with lesbians. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] So much for my alleged gaydar. [/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

          LOL!!! That is SOOOO funny, ponygrl and is a lesson for all. Prejudice stinks no matter where it is. The horse world has been one of the few places where a woman (not a 'strong' woman, but a woman d**mmit)can be herself, not play games, just be her own forthright, strong self and not be labelled by insecure others as gay or anti-male or a **itch. Because I am just myself, a strong PERSON who happens to be female, I fit very well in the horse world. My ex, who is gay, when he is angry with me likes to imply that the horse world women are all gay because of the very things ponygrl said, and therefore what is that saying about me???? Oh, please. Some people are so clueless about females. Sorry, pal, we're just women, gay and straight and bi and having a blast and to us IT DOESN'T MATTER what the others of us are. We can all be friends and admirers of each other. He thinks since I'm straight these implications will hurt me and my daughter - NOT! Real women understand that there's room for the dainty feminine types, the curvaceous bombshells, the stick-figured, the stocky, the plain, the pretty, the strong; long hair, 'sensible' hair, no hair - women come in all shapes and sizes and don't accept the stereotypes that if we look one way or another our sexual orientation must therefore be one way or another. What does it matter if she can ride, can train, takes good care of her horses? I don't need to fit in anyone's box or be what they think a woman should be. I am a woman - get over it. Same goes for the guys: they come in all styles, too. In our world it should be the horsemanship that counts, and I think the horse world has done better than most others in letting that be the final judge of a person's worth and we should all be mighty proud of that.


          • Ponygrl, I sure liked your last post. The "where are the lesbians" question is sort of a head-scratcher, but personally that's one of the things I love about riding. The traits many folks associate with the lesbian stereotype lend themselves to the horse world -- physical strength, sensible hair/attire, tendency to face things head-on. Maybe lesbians blend in to the horse world because its the environment where their less-than-"feminine" traits don't stand out, and are assets instead. It's nice when such traits stand for competence, not just for sexual orientation and politics. The horse world is one place where women get to be themselves, without attracting labels for it, other than "horsewoman."
            Some of you may have seen an amusing anecdote that was published a couple months ago -- I think it was the Chron, but I'm not certain. A local reporter covering a dressage show observed that men and women compete on equal footing in most equestrian sports. Indeed, it was noted, men and women riders wear the same clothes. The editor added a quip about busy changing rooms between rides.
            This really is a special sport. In how many other sports could we look forward to seeing which women AND men will represent us on the Olympic team?


            • Hi PonyGyrl - Welcome to the BB! and thanks for joining in on this discussion.

              You and Anne have brought up some good points about women in horses. Funny, I too have noticed how strong-minded horsey-women are. Many seem to be very practical - probably because they have learned to rely on themselves as the main caregiver of their horse. Not to mention that most of the grooms are girls too! LOL - Girls and horses: that should be a thread unto itself!

              Anne, I think your ex and I need to sit down to have a little chat! Can't believe he has those ideas about how your relationships with your female friends could affect your daughter! OMG - I mean, what gender does he think most of your daughters friends will be?
              You Strike Me Still


              • Original Poster

                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jair:

                Anne, I think your ex and I need to sit down to have a little chat!


                Ahhh, well, actually, he's a pretty great guy. We all have our less-than-stellar moments, though, myself included. It's just that he made a crack last time we talked about how the women & men who ride hunters are all gay, hoping to get to me. I left him but spend almost all my time with h/j & eventing folk and yes, a number of the guys are gay, which he has extrapolated to then everybody's gay. He doesn't understand.

                I have a 14 yr old son who is not crazy about the persnickety-ness of hunter riders and a 16-yr old daughter who is big-time into horses - the crack was made to get to me about my daughter and her strong-willed, confident female horse buddies who don't give a hoot about what the guys think of them, so he was implying that meant that it's not just the guys in hunters, but the girls, too. He's so clueless sometimes. He hates when others make stereotypes about being gay but he does it himself by what he just said! And lots of people do this. Sometimes I think gay people I know are more prejudiced and full of stereotypes against straight people than straight people are against them, but I guess it's the same both ways.

                For instance, back when AIDS was first being discussed he was so furious that it was being labelled a gay disease and would shower me with statistics to show that wasn't true. Then when poor Magic Johnson got AIDS the first thing my ex said to me was, see? so many pro athletes that you all think are so macho are really gay--there have been rumours about Magic for years. I said, but AIDS isn't just a gay disease. Magic says he's straight and he got it heterosexually...my ex laughed and said, oh, come on, that's so rare (this was years ago, remember)that transmission is rare, of course he's a closet gay if he turns up with AIDS.

                Aaarrrrghhh! He never saw his own double standard in those statements. Until I pointed it out of course!

                Anyway, he could tell you worse stories about me, I suppose, and I could tell a hundred nice ones about him when all is said and done.

                [This message has been edited by Anne FS (edited 08-01-2000).]

                [This message has been edited by Anne FS (edited 08-01-2000).]


                • Hey, thanks for clarifying that for me Anne.

                  I totally understand about the double standards. Its funny how sometimes we manage to confuse even ourselves about what we think about an issue. I am sure I have contradicted myself more than once in some of my posts. We always know what we mean on the inside, but somehow it doesn't always transfer to the written form very well.

                  Its like some of my university essays, I knew exactly what I was talking about - its too bad the professor didn't! LOL!
                  You Strike Me Still


                  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Moesha:
                    ... in Washington. Our medical, travel, educational,and financial benefits have always included domestic partners whether gay or straight.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    The health insurance benefit coverage for domestic partners is mandated by city law (and I have no idea how they got that past Congress). Any couple who have been together 6 months or longer may apply for coverage.
                    Proud adopter of Win
                    Days End Farm Horse Rescue
                    Protection for Horses - Education for People


                    • Hey Jair,

                      We must have been in the same classes!! Damn those professors - what were they thinking?

                      Maybe Im totally out of touch, but I dont see too much difference in tolerance levels of the city versus the country. I tend to like being in the country, but went to school in the city. Best I can tell, it depends on what the person looking WANTS to think. Maybe in the city, there is more to look at so no one is really paying too much attention to what orientation a person might be.

                      Im straight, but at times (especially in scary, goon infested bars) it was far wiser to seem "with" one of my girl friends. Damn if we didnt have the hardest time convincing some of those ex-con looking sorts that we were NOT interested. Maybe I dont play a good lesbian, but they wanted to believe we were hot for them. ICCKKK.

                      Then, on the other hand, sometimes when shopping with a girl friend, some of the older ladies will eyeball us like we are lesbians (do you know what look Im talking about?). That's why I guess it is mostly determined by what the other person wants to think.

                      Same thing with some of the hate crimes. The criminal wants to think those bad, criminal-motivating thoughts. I wonder how many crimes have taken place that were motivated by the thought that a person was gay and in fact they were not? Never the less, I think you cant say tolerance is more prevelant in one area or another. I think the tolerance comes with the level of education and horse people tend to be more highly educated (because we are all so very smart!!) then society in general. What does everyone else think?


                      • Aiiee. I just had composed a cogent, incisive, dare I say brilliant post on hate crimes, men in skirts, and how 'bout them disciples washing each others feet all the time, and when I went to find out how to make a wink IE [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] - I lost it. Sigh. But my truck was due for July inspection, so I've got to go cope with that now.
                        Printed most of this thread last night (around 50 pages) to share with my sweetie what I was sitting here chortling about, and now she's laughing too. Which reminded me how I grew up completely completely indoctrinated in toilet paper over the top. There was only one way, and the other one was wrong. Then- a year or so ago- I discovered that out the back was easier to find in the dark. But that not knowing which way it would be was terribly terribly frustrating. Parable? You tell me [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]