• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

The "NO REINSTATEMENT" thread.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • LMAO!!! I think I saw him in a tutu at The Nutcracker Suite last week. Anyway, another way around things, a ploy CK used for years, is to lease a farm abutting WPB, or any other permanent venue that hosts a steady stream of horse shows for that matter, and set up shop. I can't see a way for the powers that be to do much about this. Although, in animal cruelty cases, even on a local level, an offender can be barred from any association with animals. Much as a sex offender with children..Oh yeah, we have one of those too..I forgot!!
    http://community.webshots.com/user/racetb

    *Save The Prairie Dog*
    \"Jean Louise, stand up. Your father\'s passing.\"

    Comment


    • Oh! Harry I wasn't there but I would imagine he could be duded up without having to look like a fairy princess, don't you think? Especially when no one seems to care if these suspensions are enforced or not. Maybe he was the guy selling hot dogs and pop?

      I mean really, it was just bad judgment and it was just a horse. Cash flow is what really matters don't you think? We've heard all the same kind things said about Barney that we've heard about PV. What the heck they did their time.
      http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

      Comment


      • I wonder if PV were to be "disguised" he would be as easily outted as Barney. The powers that be seem to have more disdain for BW than for PV, and in this old goats mind, which is the more offensive?
        POYBGP, member in good standing.

        Comment


        • Having waded through the entirety of this thread, the thing that I find most disgusting and embarrassing as a horse person is not the length of PV's ban, but that he was allowed to continue owning / training and being in other ways involved with animals. I can only imagine what a person can do if they view a horse as a commodity and not an animal - if someone is able to dissociate themselves from all feelings of morality enough to electrocute a horse or smash its legs, are they not just as likely to employ cruel training methods? Here in New Zealand I would expect to see the SPCA or ILPH becoming involved in similar cases. A situation like this would almost definitely come to court (whether because of the insurance fraud or the cruelty aspect). I believe any right-minded judge would enforce a life ban on both owning and being involved in the training of horses.
          Chief Irrelevant Poster and member of the Broken Leg Brigade.

          I wouldn't event at all, but it feels SO GOOD when you complete in one piece...

          Comment


          • Well, I can tell you that to me anyone who disposes of a horse for money can't be trusted. And, if this sport is going that route then it will indeed be a very small power base.

            Will the elite folks stay when it all shrinks down so there are so few to beat?
            http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

            Comment


            • There's more of us here. Not only would I sign the petition I would also pledge to get 200 more signatures to help.
              http://www.petitiononline.com/valliere/petition.html

              Comment


              • Ya just never know HJ.

                Comment


                • Help me with this. I thought PV horses were banned from shows yet they do show:

                  http://community.webshots.com/photo/...09906482pPSkeX
                  http://www.petitiononline.com/valliere/petition.html

                  Comment


                  • Only if he owns them outright. He can be a partial owner and if the other owner is permitted the horse or pony can compete.

                    Enforcement of the rules depends on whether people are willing to respect those rules. I'm not certain that as a Non-Member if he assisted and was not the trainer of record there is anyway to prevent his presence at a show; or that of any Non-Member.

                    I think he is courteous to be technically legal with a view to re-instatement.
                    http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                    Comment


                    • and is found not in good standing and he and all horses owned, leased, or of any partnership, corporation or stable of his are found not in good standing and are suspended from competing or taking any part whatsoever in Recognized competitions and he is excluded from all competition grounds during Recognized competitions

                      doesn't "any partnership" include this horse...PV isn't even being technically legal and thus looses his re-instatement
                      http://www.petitiononline.com/valliere/petition.html

                      Comment


                      • But we are licensed now and I specifically asked that question when Legal Council was present at our meeting. I would be pleased if it is not so except for the extra work chasing down who all owns a horse. Besides they would just sell the horse for a $1.00 or call it a Lease.
                        http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          Hey y'all, sorry I was MIA yesterday. We had a dressage clinic at our barn & the schedule got royally FUBAR'ed owing to recent monsoons and freezes wrecking the footing, so, having expected to be there for 15 minutes, I was there all day!

                          I loff, loff, LOFF the idea of wristbands or some other visible form of support. I wonder if rather than wristbands, little badges or buttons might be more visible? But whichever way y'all want to go is fine by me. If anybody is good at design, or has suggestions for designs, let me know. I'd think http://www.cafepress.com would be the best way to get the job done...???

                          Another aspect of the letter-writing campaign is that we probably need to start writing to USEF's corporate sponsors and telling them we will boycott their products/services if any of the horse killers are reinstated. The Marketing/PR VPs are the ones who will really wig when 800 letters land on their desks. Anyone care to volunteer to draft that letter??

                          So, do I take it correctly that y'all would rather have this be in the form of a letter-writing/e-mailing campaign than an online petition?

                          The only thing really in favor of an online petition is that I'd like to see pressure brought to bear from outside the USA, as well as within the USEF membership.

                          Anyhoo, here's another draft. Unfortunately it makes it even longer but I hope it takes into account Jetsmom's well-stated and IMO very important concern that we make it clear Mr. Valliere has pretty much blatantly flaunted the terms of his suspension.
                          I've bolded the additional language - or I hope I have!

                          Oh and BTW, Harryjohnson, you've got mail.

                          ************************

                          TO: The United States Equestrian Federation ("USEF"), the United States Olympic Committee ("USOC"), and the Fédération Equestre Internationale ("FEI"):

                          Purpose: This petition is in opposition to the reinstatement of Mr. Paul Valliere to full membership rights and privileges in the United States Equestrian Federation ("USEF").

                          Background: On March 12, 1996, a meeting of the Hearings Committee of the American Horse Shows Association (predecessor in interest to USEF) was held and the following resolution was adopted:

                          "Mr. Paul Valliere, of North Smithfield, RI, violated Rule III, Article 302.6 and Rule VII, Article 702(a), (d), and (f) of this association, in that he was convicted of having participated in a plan or conspiracy to commit acts of cruelty or abuse to a horse and the conduct underlying his conviction is deemed improper, unethical, dishonest, unsportsmanlike or intemperate, or prejudicial to the best interests of the Association.

                          In considering an appropriate penalty for the violation by MR. VALLIERE, the committee members weighed in his favor that he had cooperated with the government; however, the panel also took into consideration that he hired a killer for the horse Roseau Platiere, owned by him, which was electrocuted as part of a scheme to defraud an insurance company, and that the evidence presented at the hearing established that death by electrocution causes pain to the horse.

                          For his violation of the rules as charged, the committee determined pursuant to the provisions of Rule III, Article 302.6 and Rule VII, Article 703.1 (b), (c) and (f), that effective immediately and until further notice, MR. VALLIERE is hereby expelled from membership in the AHSA and denied all the privileges of membership including the ability to hold or exercise office in the association, attend or participate in association meetings, hold license(s) as an AHSA or FEI official, compete in international competitions or receive AHSA automatic insurance coverages or participate in AHSA group insurance programs and is found not in good standing and he and all horses owned, leased, or of any partnership, corporation or stable of his are found not in good standing and are suspended from competing or taking any part whatsoever in Recognized competitions and he is excluded from all competition grounds during Recognized competitions as an exhibitor, participant, or spectator. The panel members also directed that the Hearing Committee retains jurisdiction over this matter, and MR. VALLIERE may not apply to the Association for reinstatement any sooner than 10 years from the date he first became suspended by the Association on account of his indictment for the crime in question and then only based upon affirmative proof of total rehabilitation, including proof that he has taken steps to reform himself and has performed community service to benefit the welfare of horses."

                          We, the undersigned, do not believe that Mr. Valliere has presented sufficient proof of total rehabilitation as required by USEF. While we acknowledge that Mr. Valliere has taken some steps to be seen to adhere to the terms of his suspension, we believe that he has demonstrated flagrant disregard for the spirit and intent of the suspension in the following ways:

                          (1) He has arranged for advertisements in equestrian publications touting his support for charitable activities.

                          (2) He has routinely coached and trained horses and riders on the grounds of USEF rated shows on "off days".

                          (3) He has judged non-rated classes on the grounds of USEF rated shows on "off days".

                          (3) He has routinely coached and trained horses and riders just outside the physical boundaries of the grounds of USEF rated horse shows when those shows are in session.

                          (4) He has coached and trained horses and riders on the show grounds of USEF rated horse shows via walkie-talkie, while he physically remained just outside the boundaries of the grounds.


                          We further believe that the reinstatement of Mr. Valliere would be in direct contravention of the USEF's own Vision Statement, contained in the USEF Bylaws, which states, in part:

                          "Bylaw 102: The vision of the Federation is to provide leadership for equestrian sport in the United States of America, promoting the pursuit of excellence from the grass roots to the Olympic Games, based on a foundation of fair, safe competition and the welfare of its human and equine athletes...."

                          The killing of the equine athlete Roseau Platiere flies in the face of USEF Bylaws. It is also in direct contravention of the FEI Code of Conduct, which states in part:

                          "The Fédération Equestre Internationale (FEI) expects all those involved in international equestrian sport to adhere to the FEI’s Code of Conduct and to acknowledge and accept that at all times the welfare of the horse must be paramount and must never be subordinated to competitive or commercial influences.

                          At all stages during the preparation and training of competition horses, welfare must take precedence over all other demands. This includes good horse management, training methods, farriery and tack, and transportation."

                          In killing the equine athlete Roseau Platiere, Mr. Valliere directly violated the FEI Code. The reinstatement of Roseau Platiere's admitted killer is not in the best interests of equestrian sport, USEF, the United States of America, or the FEI, and does not promote the welfare of our equine athletes.

                          Respectfully submitted,
                          "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

                          Comment


                          • WA -
                            I vote for both. Letters to sponsers and a petition. Get them from both sides. Can't ignore us then, or at least it will be much more difficult.

                            Lynda

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              Works for me, if it works for y'all!!

                              Anybody want to help compile the list of e-mail addies?? We need: the USEF officers/directors, USEF Executive Committee, Hearings Committee, Ethics Committee. And so on. Of course, you can also get them all at http://www.usef.org, but from the last time we got together & did this, it seemed people were more likely to actually send e-mails if there was a list right in front of them on their puter screens.

                              We also need contact names at the USOC and FEI.

                              If no one else can, I'll do it tonight or tomorrow. But I find myself in dire need of a horse hug, so I'm going out to take Avery for a nice little drive with his new jingle bells now.
                              "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

                              Comment


                              • Okay, I have printed off War Admiral's petition and will get this ball rolling. It will go to four show barns in NoVa this week and I will get signatures. Just an FYI: for the signatures. Have people sign, print their name and address. If they know their USEF # it should be included as well. Or, just a check off Member/non-member. Signatures need to be somewhat "verifiable."

                                I urge everyone to do the same: take them to your barns, give copies to friends who ride at other barns, and set a date to collect them.

                                Now: who is going to the USEF convention who can deliver the petitions to the powers that be? Unfortunately, I am not going to be able to go. But we need a central "collection point" Volunteers?
                                "Socrates was a very wise man who went around giving good advice. They poisoned him." Anonymous...

                                Comment


                                • I have not read enough to know if these people should be reinstated or not, but I do know I did not see this many posts about people convicted or proved to be guilty of crimes against people and are still allowed to go to shows. Just find that fact interesting.

                                  Comment


                                  • LeesaM. These people were convicted of crimes against people.

                                    http://www.animalpeoplenews.org/94/7/horse_killers.html
                                    http://www.petitiononline.com/valliere/petition.html

                                    Comment


                                    • don't forget these guys...

                                      http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=...navby=case&no=982665
                                      http://www.petitiononline.com/valliere/petition.html

                                      Comment


                                      • War Admiral's petition is impressive, and she has an excellent point with making certain the sport's sponsors also get contacted. The wristbands happen to be a popular show of support right now, you can see the Lance Armstrong Livestrong ones here: http://www.store-laf.org/wristbands.html I have seen them for other causes as well, but the particular ones escape me at the moment. How to market them does remain a mystery - any ideas?
                                        POYBGP, member in good standing.

                                        Comment


                                        • You need a fundraising reason for people to buy. There's no legal fund so the only thing would be to donate to a horse charity. Maybe a scholarship for a young rider.
                                          http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X