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The "NO REINSTATEMENT" thread.

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  • To the contrary Serah, I find that non-horsepeople are quite quick to understand and support the no-reinstatement position.

    It's not very difficult to grasp what happened, or why some horsepeople don't like it.

    "Negativity"? I believe many people supporting no-reinstatement are quite positive human beings. This isn't gossip, etc.

    Just about *every* horseperson wants to see more coverage of the wide variety of equestrian sports and activities on tv and in the general media. I think it is a measure of the strength of feeling of the supporters of no-reinstatement that they are *even* considering using the series as a chance for publicity.

    As far as "appearances" go--IMO, it appears *far* worse if horsepeople are not *seen* to acknowledge and address these sorts of issues. Silence can well be perceived as tacit acceptance. More media attention will mean more exposure of such problems. It won't just go away if we all smile brightly.

    I hardly think the no-reinstatement petition is comparable to PETA activity.

    Jane, must you people always enter this discussion with an off-putting remark rather than initiating a polite dialog?
    Tinwhistle Farm

    Comment


    • Uberetc, please. On the one hand, no-reinstatement can be portrayed as a positive thing. On TV, even.

      On the other--if you see the horse-killings as such a black eye on the sport, why not take a stand?

      And believe me, if I had a child in this sport, I would be QUITE a great deal more proactive about such matters. And not on the lets-pretend-this-isn't-happening side, either.

      Edited to add, the Palm Beach Post recently ran a short and well-balanced front page story about the petition AND continues to run interesting articles about WEF and the NHS.
      Tinwhistle Farm

      Comment


      • What do you think the TV critics are going to write? "There is a show on TV today about horses, and by the way somebody else got in trouble 10 years ago. Also, Mike Tyson is not a nice guy."

        Comment


        • What do you think, Sheila....you don't think everytime there's a baseball game they bring up Pete Rose?

          BTW N&B&T, does your face hurt after so many grins in your posts?

          Comment


          • Edited to add, the Palm Beach Post recently ran a short and well-balanced front page story about the petition AND continues to run interesting articles about WEF and the NHS.
            It would be nice if they would fact check their stories before they run them.....how I can trust the validity of a story when it referred to War Admiral as a amateur show jumper rider?

            Comment


            • BTW N&B&T, does your face hurt after so many grins in your posts?
              See, I *said* smiling brightly doesn't make stuff go away.
              Tinwhistle Farm

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                Ãœberraschung, I await with a fascination I may truly describe as "boundless" your explanation as to how anyone's marital status/number of offspring are relevant to the instant discussion.
                "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

                Comment


                • There's finally going to be a show (series) on a major network on the sport, which will be an introduction to the h/j world to a good percentage of its viewers. It's not bad enough that we're hoping the show will focus more on the sport itself, the love of horses, without making it appear to be too much of an elitist sport, but you want to go and bring more negativity to it?
                  Agreed, Jane. There IS such a thing as bad publicity.
                  A major network is promoting our sport. A family-friendly network.
                  The WEF public relations department has spent YEARS getting the local papers to provide any coverage. The Post has been fabulous for the last couple of seasons, showcasing the athleticism of the sport and its *family-friendly* appeal.
                  Why, in light of the recent progress made in those areas, is it necessary to drag 10-year-old dirty laundry out into the public view?
                  Do you honestly think that people with little knowledge of the sport want to see people on the inside bringing controversy forward? It doesn't create the impression that the community is concerned with its image. It creates the impression that the community is inherently controversial.
                  It certainly doesn't promote the sport as a good environment for people's children.
                  I really think, whatever your feelings on this issue, that everyone needs to take a step back and look at this type of publicity from the view of the general public. I don't think it's doing our sport and industry any favors.

                  Comment


                  • This issue as always, will bring out both the best and worst in people. You can make a valid point with what Serah and C.Boylen are saying, yet you can look at competitive figure skating, which has only grown since the Nancy Kerrigan/Tanya Harding incident. There is no right or wrong in bringing the issue public at this time.
                    POYBGP, member in good standing.

                    Comment


                    • On a more pertinent issue. Here is the link to a page which has photos of the two types of bracelets with order information and links to the petition as well as a copy of the Petition Verbage. And a link to a pdf version for printing out to circulate at shows and stables.

                      http://www.usahsa.org/Bracelets-No-Reinstatement.htm

                      You can add this link to your signature as well War Admiral
                      http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                      Comment


                      • I do so agree with you Harry, it was Tanya Harding who actually gave the boost to skating that they needed to take it out of the "ballet" stage onto the sports pages.

                        It is the players about to kill each other in major sports that brings in the crowds, the hope they will see a crash at the NASCAR and that one day the Bull will win in the Bull Riding.

                        There is nothing more boring that 30 perfect trips of hunters. But in jumpers there could be a crash or a rail comes down and ends the competition.

                        I cannot imagine any harm would come from the fact that we want to protect this sport for those generations yet to be born from these evil people who would ruin a wonderful receational sport for the children. It can be written in an affirmative way to build an audience and the ratings while at the same time giving us the attention badly needed.

                        This frames it for both sides of the argument and if the ratings are good could gain us a lot of public support. If we could show that we need help to depose the B******* who would corrupt our horses and our children it could be a great asset.
                        http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          It certainly doesn't promote the sport as a good environment for people's children....
                          Certainly seems to me to provide information that an interested incoming parent would care to know, though.

                          I really think, whatever your feelings on this issue, that everyone needs to take a step back and look at this type of publicity from the view of the general public. I don't think it's doing our sport and industry any favors.
                          What I fail to understand is why sweeping the issue under the carpet at the very time these people are becoming eligible for reinstatement is perceived as "in the best interest of equestrian sport".

                          We'll just have to agree to disagree on this, Chanda, sorry.

                          Snowbird, cool, thanks, I'll add that. I just e-mailed you BTW.
                          "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by War Admiral:
                            Ãœberraschung, I await with a fascination I may truly describe as "boundless" your explanation as to how anyone's marital status/number of offspring are relevant to the instant discussion.
                            Nobody said anything about marital status nor number of offspring. Uber said you dont have a kid that shows. Is that inaccurate?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by War Admiral:
                              Ãœberraschung, I await with a fascination I may truly describe as "boundless" your explanation as to how anyone's marital status/number of offspring are relevant to the instant discussion.
                              And that's exactly my point. A television show about some riding teenagers has nothing to do with 10 year old news (the kids in the program were what...8 years old max at the time of this news?) for an organization people outside of horses have never heard of.

                              Comment


                              • I have tried to stay away from this thread, because it seems to me that what the "No Reinstatement" faction really is about is to discredit the "A" Circuit competitors and unilaterally assuming that anyone who competes on the "A: level of showing condones killing horses for insurance money. So now, you are seeking to piggy-back your cause onto the upcoming Animal Planet series on the Maclay Finals by implying that the kids who are the stars of this series, and who have expended the work and dedication that goes into preparing for this national championship, are the budding young horse killers of the future. I'm sorry, but I find this type of "Yellow Journalism" extremely distasteful and yes, harmful to the sport.

                                I know of no-one who supports the actions of Messrs Lindeman, Ward, Valliere, et al that occured ten years ago. I certainly am apalled by what they did to those horses. But, I am also outraged when I read the vicious verbiage that this mob visits upon anyone who says, "Hey, I have faith that the USEF Hearing Committee will listen to the reinstatement arguments fairly and dispassionately, and will come to a just decision as to when or whether the miscreants may be reinstated as members of our Federation.

                                And,by the way, the whole notion of the petition flies in the face of a fair judicial procedure. Juries in criminal trials are often sequestered so that they can't be tainted by public emotions and swayed by lynch mob histrionics. Your actions, despite what you say, amounts to an attempt at "jury tampering", and last time I heard, that is against the law!

                                As someone mentioned earlier, "Get Over It!" And, by the way, the letter that was sent to Animal Planet stated ( as fact) that the USEF was "one by one reinstating" those who had been found guilty of insurance fraud". That just isn't true...the USEF is beginning to conduct hearings on reinstatement...which is not the same thing as granting reinstatement. Please...when you set out to ruin a sport that others have worked very hard to develop...at least, get your facts straight!

                                Comment


                                • Well said Fairview! It is not PR that matters it is principles.
                                  http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                                  Comment


                                  • I have tried to stay away from this thread, because it seems to me that what the "No Reinstatement" faction really is about is to discredit the "A" Circuit competitors and unilaterally assuming that anyone who competes on the "A: level of showing condones killing horses for insurance money.
                                    You couldn't be more wrong saddlebag. We are against those who who committed offenses against your community of A Circuit people and yet you seem to tolerate PV's lack of remorse by stretching the rules to accomodate his needs as more important than our value as a "sport". These are convicted self confessed felons who admit they killed horses to pacify the ego of either the trainer or the client without regard for what was good for the horse.

                                    Do you seriously believe that convicted felons should be a welcome part of our horse community? Whether it is a convicted sexual offender; or a confessed murderer of a client like Helen Brach; or theives who steal horses from rightful owners without fair compensation these are felons and they have no plavce in the world of sports.

                                    So now, you are seeking to piggy-back your cause onto the upcoming Animal Planet series on the Maclay Finals by implying that the kids who are the stars of this series, and who have expended the work and dedication that goes into preparing for this national championship, are the budding young horse killers of the future. I'm sorry, but I find this type of "Yellow Journalism" extremely distasteful and yes, harmful to the sport.
                                    No we are saying that these children deserve a better horse world for all their efforts. They deserve the opportunity to accept the Olympic challenge based on how good they are and not ho they know. They deserve to find a place in this horse world where they can win fairly with rules equally enforced. Saddlebag are you not embarrassed that the Court has ruled that these felons can be eliminated from our sport and should be for their transgressions.

                                    Are you not ashamed that we have existing rules that say that PV violated the spirit of his parole? Are you not incensed that in your favorite environment you rub elbows with the man who publicly admitted he killed Helen Brach, with the people who admitted they killed horses for the insurance money and they fraudulently killed healthy horses? With other trainers who may have cheated you of prizes by having drugged horses? By knowing that rightful owners have been penalized with financial loss from conmen who are as I write Members in good standing of the Federation?

                                    I know of no-one who supports the actions of Messrs Lindeman, Ward, Valliere, et al that occured ten years ago. I certainly am apalled by what they did to those horses. But, I am also outraged when I read the vicious verbiage that this mob visits upon anyone who says, "Hey, I have faith that the USEF Hearing Committee will listen to the reinstatement arguments fairly and dispassionately, and will come to a just decision as to when or whether the miscreants may be reinstated as members of our Federation.
                                    Why would anyone have faith in a Hearing Committee that is accountable to no one? A self contained revolving circle which has the final decision and does not feel impelled to make sure that all the rules are equally enforced on all levels of competition. There is no accountability and no responsibility as the punishment is dealt out to be a less painful as possible on those VIP and as strict as possible on the "nobodies".

                                    And,by the way, the whole notion of the petition flies in the face of a fair judicial procedure. Juries in criminal trials are often sequestered so that they can't be tainted by public emotions and swayed by lynch mob histrionics. Your actions, despite what you say, amounts to an attempt at "jury tampering", and last time I heard, that is against the law!
                                    It is not because because we don't expect a fair hearing on this issue. No one is attempting jury tampering we are preparing a case to present to higher authority.

                                    As someone mentioned earlier, "Get Over It!" And, by the way, the letter that was sent to Animal Planet stated ( as fact) that the USEF was "one by one reinstating" those who had been found guilty of insurance fraud". That just isn't true...the USEF is beginning to conduct hearings on reinstatement...which is not the same thing as granting reinstatement. Please...when you set out to ruin a sport that others have worked very hard to develop...at least, get your facts straight!
                                    Are you sayng that you don't know of the current re-instatement of two already that were convicted and are felons. Do you agree with us that PV should not be re-instated? I submitted a request to the CEO that Joe Plemmons after his public confession that he shot Helen Brach in the head twice should be suspended and have a Hearing. I never received the courtesy of an answer.
                                    http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Saddlebag:
                                      I have tried to stay away from this thread, because it seems to me that what the "No Reinstatement" faction really is about is to discredit the "A" Circuit competitors and unilaterally assuming that anyone who competes on the "A: level of showing condones killing horses for insurance money. So now, you are seeking to piggy-back your cause onto the upcoming Animal Planet series on the Maclay Finals by implying that the kids who are the stars of this series, and who have expended the work and dedication that goes into preparing for this national championship, are the budding young horse killers of the future. I'm sorry, but I find this type of "Yellow Journalism" extremely distasteful and yes, harmful to the sport.

                                      I know of no-one who supports the actions of Messrs Lindeman, Ward, Valliere, et al that occured ten years ago. I certainly am apalled by what they did to those horses. But, I am also outraged when I read the vicious verbiage that this mob visits upon anyone who says, "Hey, I have faith that the USEF Hearing Committee will listen to the reinstatement arguments fairly and dispassionately, and will come to a just decision as to when or whether the miscreants may be reinstated as members of our Federation.

                                      And,by the way, the whole notion of the petition flies in the face of a fair judicial procedure. Juries in criminal trials are often sequestered so that they can't be tainted by public emotions and swayed by lynch mob histrionics. Your actions, despite what you say, amounts to an attempt at "jury tampering", and last time I heard, that is against the law!

                                      As someone mentioned earlier, "Get Over It!" And, by the way, the letter that was sent to Animal Planet stated ( as fact) that the USEF was "one by one reinstating" those who had been found guilty of insurance fraud". That just isn't true...the USEF is beginning to conduct hearings on reinstatement...which is not the same thing as granting reinstatement. Please...when you set out to ruin a sport that others have worked very hard to develop...at least, get your facts straight!
                                      Well said, Saddelbag, and please know that unlike members of the lynch mob, there are people reading this thread who can actually read for comprehension and not put words in your mouth.

                                      Comment


                                      • I'm pretty sure the AMA isnt a club.

                                        Comment


                                        • I do not think that there is any sort of movement against those who compete at A level shows.
                                          POYBGP, member in good standing.

                                          Comment

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