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The "NO REINSTATEMENT" thread.

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  • I don't think you want to get into discussing training methods, PV's or anyone else's, now or 30 years ago. Suffice it to say, when a trainer/rider wants to win, the horse will be "trained" by whatever method is deemed useful. What is considered actually "cruel" is a judgement call, but the methods used are most certainly not classical horsemanship. So, since PV wouldn't be unique in this. Some of the most worshiped trainers mentioned on this BB all use the same methods...
    Laurie

    Comment


    • i've asked before, what makes everyone think that he will even apply for reinstatement? you are all so convinced that he has been coaching/training/schooling/whatever from the parking lot (i've never seen it, so who knows if it's true) so he's proven that he doesn't need his membership, so why should he bother to aplly? anyone know? i mean, if he's gotten around it for this long, then why not keep avoiding it, and avoiding having to pay the $$$ that everyone complains about having to shell out every year?
      Different Times Equestrian Ventures at Hidden Spring Ranch
      www.DifferentTimesEquestrianVentures.com

      Comment


      • [quote]Originally posted by scout33:
        Originally posted by Perfect Pony:


        Funny that, we could say the same thing about you? It appears you joined 2 days ago only to defend PV - who exactly are YOU?

        First I don't think it's any of your business who I am. But since you choose to attack me and my reasons for joining I will respond.

        I had been a member on these forums previously but forgot all my information as I had my laptop stolen when my car was broken into. The authorities told me to create all new screen names passwords etc on anything that was on my computer since identity theft is a big issus. SO, no I did not just join to defend PV and how dare you question me and my intentions on this forum. I am doing what everyone else does on this forum, which is express an opinion which I, as are you are entitled to, regardless if we agree or disagree.

        I also am an active member in the H/J community and have been for over 20 years. SO sorry I haven't been able to post over 3000 times like you have.
        I'm not questioning your intentions, merely pointing out that you are in fact hiding behind your anonymity. And I do believe your intentions were to join to defend PV, why else have you just joined 2 days ago and have 18 posts in 2 days only on these 2 threads?

        I don't care if you defend him or not, voice your opinion or not. I was just pointing out that what you are accusing others of doing you are doing yourself.

        And fwiw I may have a lot of posts...that would be because I am busy supporting myself with a job sitting in front of a computer 10+ hours a day and multi-task which includes convesing with people so I don't go brain dead.
        On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog

        Comment


        • I agree in that I'm sure there's a grey area regarding different training techniques by many famous and not-so-famous trainers. But, for those who resorted to killing unsuccessful horses, it does beg the question, imo. Did, or how much did, these horses suffer before being murdered? Actually, maybe I don't want to know.
          \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

          Comment


          • [quote]Originally posted by Perfect Pony:
            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by scout33:
            Originally posted by Perfect Pony:


            Funny that, we could say the same thing about you? It appears you joined 2 days ago only to defend PV - who exactly are YOU?

            First I don't think it's any of your business who I am. But since you choose to attack me and my reasons for joining I will respond.

            I had been a member on these forums previously but forgot all my information as I had my laptop stolen when my car was broken into. The authorities told me to create all new screen names passwords etc on anything that was on my computer since identity theft is a big issus. SO, no I did not just join to defend PV and how dare you question me and my intentions on this forum. I am doing what everyone else does on this forum, which is express an opinion which I, as are you are entitled to, regardless if we agree or disagree.

            I also am an active member in the H/J community and have been for over 20 years. SO sorry I haven't been able to post over 3000 times like you have.
            I'm not questioning your intentions, merely pointing out that you are in fact hiding behind your anonymity. And I do believe your intentions were to join to defend PV, why else have you just joined 2 days ago and have 18 posts in 2 days only on these 2 threads?

            I don't care if you defend him or not, voice your opinion or not. I was just pointing out that what you are accusing others of doing you are doing yourself.

            And fwiw I may have a lot of posts...that would be because I am busy supporting myself with a job sitting in front of a computer 10+ hours a day and multi-task which includes convesing with people so I don't go brain dead. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

            Is this a BB a meritocracy based on the number of posts? Is your opinion weighted more consideribly with each 1,000 posts?

            What personal statisitics qualifies ones opinion?
            Do we all need to file our names, DOB's and SS#'s in order for our voice to count?

            I respect anyone who has joined the BB to be heard, whether they are, or not, in favor of reinstatement or tack nosebands...everyone is entitled to their own opinion, regardless of the lenght and basis of their membership.

            Let people's personal security be just that-personal.
            http://community.webshots.com/user/LZNPT

            Comment


            • [quote]Originally posted by anthem35:
              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Perfect Pony:
              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by scout33:
              Originally posted by Perfect Pony:


              Funny that, we could say the same thing about you? It appears you joined 2 days ago only to defend PV - who exactly are YOU?

              First I don't think it's any of your business who I am. But since you choose to attack me and my reasons for joining I will respond.

              I had been a member on these forums previously but forgot all my information as I had my laptop stolen when my car was broken into. The authorities told me to create all new screen names passwords etc on anything that was on my computer since identity theft is a big issus. SO, no I did not just join to defend PV and how dare you question me and my intentions on this forum. I am doing what everyone else does on this forum, which is express an opinion which I, as are you are entitled to, regardless if we agree or disagree.

              I also am an active member in the H/J community and have been for over 20 years. SO sorry I haven't been able to post over 3000 times like you have.
              I'm not questioning your intentions, merely pointing out that you are in fact hiding behind your anonymity. And I do believe your intentions were to join to defend PV, why else have you just joined 2 days ago and have 18 posts in 2 days only on these 2 threads?

              I don't care if you defend him or not, voice your opinion or not. I was just pointing out that what you are accusing others of doing you are doing yourself.

              And fwiw I may have a lot of posts...that would be because I am busy supporting myself with a job sitting in front of a computer 10+ hours a day and multi-task which includes convesing with people so I don't go brain dead. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

              Is this a BB a meritocracy based on the number of posts? Is your opinion weighted more consideribly with each 1,000 posts?

              What personal statisitics qualifies ones opinion?
              Do we all need to file our names, DOB's and SS#'s in order for our voice to count?

              I respect anyone who has joined the BB to be heard, whether they are, or not, in favor of reinstatement or tack nosebands...everyone is entitled to their own opinion, regardless of the lenght and basis of their membership.

              Let people's personal security be just that-personal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

              AGAIN for the last time, I was responding to the poster accusing someone else of hiding behind their anonymity while he/she is in fact doing the exact same thing, 10 posts, 100 posts or 1 million posts, I don't care. It's just hypocritical.
              On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog

              Comment


              • Anthem, just to bring you up to speed, this is the post to which Pocket Pony was referring.

                Originally posted by scout33:I had thought this was a forum to discuss things whether we shared the same opinions or not without being patronized or attacked verbally at all turns. Maybe that was my mistake, amazing how people respond when there is the element of anonymity.
                I suppose I could have saved us all this little brou ha ha if I had just responded, 'Hello, Pot? It's me, kettle!'

                But, I was wearing my civility cape and just let it go.
                *****
                You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Midge:
                  Anthem, just to bring you up to speed, this is the post to which Pocket Pony was referring.

                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by scout33:I had thought this was a forum to discuss things whether we shared the same opinions or not without being patronized or attacked verbally at all turns. Maybe that was my mistake, amazing how people respond when there is the element of anonymity.
                  </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                  Midge, It's Perfect Pony, Pocket Pony wouldn't want to be confused for me, she's a much better communicator than I I actually thought of changing my username at one point since we often get confused, but then I would be one of those people... can't win!
                  On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog

                  Comment


                  • and who are those people?...
                    No hour of life is wasted that is spent in the saddle. ~Winston Churchill

                    Comment


                    • I apologize that my comments made those feel I am hiding beneath a cloak of anonymity. Midge, I was merely responding to PP questioning my motives and although I did not have to give my reasons for having less than 3000 posts I did respond.

                      Although after reading how some respond on these posts to a difference of opinion I am not sure I would want my identity broadcast across the message boards.
                      No hour of life is wasted that is spent in the saddle. ~Winston Churchill

                      Comment


                      • Absolutely, scout! I once had someone tell me something to the effect of, for my sake they hoped we'd never meet.
                        *****
                        You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

                        Comment


                        • Oh! Come on Cowboy it up! It doesn't matter who you are if you're not one of them then you're nobody; whoever you might be!

                          I wish the number of posts mattered as to whether or not you're believable or even immune to abuse. It doesn't!

                          I have only dropped in once or twice because you all were doing very well with a high tone dialog. Those who want to believe that a trainer who kills for money is still a horseman aren't going to change their mind. Ignore them because for whatever benefit they imagine they will earn they have their own purposes.

                          I signed your petition and my identity has never been a secret. The problem seems to be that this is a whole new generation that has been isolated from the crimes we know have happened. I strongly doubt that anyone has any doubt that snowbird is Vikki Siegel. The chronic whiner and complainer asking questions and raising issues of democracy and fair play for the "little people".

                          You did raise an interesting question and I doubt we would eb notified that an applicant has requested reinstatement. Communication is not the strong characteristic of the current administration. We would only be notified when they had been forgiven their sins. As to those who may have been reinstated without our notice well as they all say one flaw does not make a culprit.

                          I suggest that for next year you propose a rule change that requires public notification before the fact and just after the decisions.
                          http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Snowbird:
                            You did raise an interesting question and I doubt we would eb notified that an applicant has requested reinstatement. Communication is not the strong characteristic of the current administration. We would only be notified when they had been forgiven their sins. As to those who may have been reinstated without our notice well as they all say one flaw does not make a culprit.

                            I suggest that for next year you propose a rule change that requires public notification before the fact and just after the decisions.
                            I am amazed by this. In the dog world when you are suspended or stripped of your privileges it is published for all to see in the AKC Gazette. If you are eligible for re-instatement and you apply...that is also published for all to see. Along with a notice asking all members in good standing with information to contact the AKC.
                            Suspension also includes much more than showing.....ALL of your dog activities in the purebred dog world are over....done.
                            I have always felt that the horse world doesn't take violations seriously....the sanctions within the horse world are not serious.
                            (the legal penalties are a different set of standards)
                            Nina's Story
                            Epona Comm on FB

                            Comment


                            • In poor taste; I apologize

                              [Deleted by moderator - sorry, that sort of allegation is not allowed]

                              Comment


                              • Oxer, the practice of overcharging is not uncommon in the circles PV deals in. How else did he get contacts for the Sandman? Does he ever talk about it? Did he tell you 15 years ago, "Hey I'm under federal investigation for insurance fraud". Because it was the same time you met him?
                                http://www.petitiononline.com/valliere/petition.html

                                Comment


                                • horserider133

                                  if you were that concerned about oxer being ripped off, maybe you could have called her 2 years ago when the deal was actually going through.

                                  also, there's a small thing called COMISSION on the A Circuit. To sign up on COTH to PUBLICLY annouce these things is absolutely classless.

                                  Oxer walks, talks, and breathes nothing but pure class. This thread is really making me sick.

                                  Also, on this petition I would love for each person to mention if they personally know each "horse killer" or not. Would be interesting!

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by slainte!:
                                    horserider133

                                    if you were that concerned about oxer being ripped off, maybe you could have called her 2 years ago when the deal was actually going through.

                                    also, there's a small thing called COMISSION on the A Circuit. To sign up on COTH to PUBLICLY annouce these things is absolutely classless.

                                    Oxer walks, talks, and breathes nothing but pure class. This thread is really making me sick.

                                    Also, on this petition I would love for each person to mention if they personally know each "horse killer" or not. Would be interesting!
                                    I did not know about the prices during the transaction. I also feel as though it is pertinent due to the nature of this thread, as well as in response to particular remarks by Oxer.

                                    [deleted by moderator]

                                    I have not stated anything regarding the character of Oxer. It is a pleasure to watch her compete her horses. I have nothing against her, and I respect her right, and yours, to post here. I am merely pointing out a discrepancy. I did not comment on her class. I imagine that she is a lovely individual.

                                    BTW, I know the trainer in question. I have also lessoned with him.

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      93 signatures in 24 hours, nice job y'all!!

                                      If we keep it up at that level until April 06, that will be.... a LOT of signatures. Keep circulating this thing.

                                      We are having an ice storm here and I expect to lose power very shortly (it's already flickering, and my puter has rebooted twice!) so I may not be around today as much as I would like. But you can still PM me w/ any questions/comments & I'll pick 'em back up when I can...
                                      "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

                                      Comment


                                      • I forgot about this happening. I didn't know they got to keep showing. Thanks for coming up with the petition.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by slainte!:

                                          Also, on this petition I would love for each person to mention if they personally know each "horse killer" or not. Would be interesting!

                                          AAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH! !!

                                          Why would that be interesting???? Why does it matter!??? Like it or not, PV COMMITTED AND CONFESSED TO TERRIBLE CRIMES!!! And, NOTHING any of us says or does here will change that.

                                          Sadly, we seem to live in a culture where no one seems to believe that there should be consequences for one's actions any more... Especially if that someone is rich and/or famous. Well, I for one, refuse to cave to that trend.

                                          And, trust me, I'm not saying anything here that I would not GLADLY say to their faces.

                                          Seb
                                          Aca-Believe it!!

                                          Comment

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