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  • Anthem35: please post a link or reference to the correction. For once, I'd like to see the factual proof that a quoted article clearly indicating a current rules violation by PV was in fact an error and was corrected.

    If you cannot provide proof, as far as I am concerned, the PR document, as quoted on this thread, is the fact of the matter. If there is a rule violation, the USEF should be taking action.

    Your statement that is was corrected is simply not enough. Cite where the correction can be read.

    As to your continued postings arguing that PV is truly sorry and has or can change, unless you can prove the correction, I think you have an uphill battle (and I hope the USEF views that HE has an uphill battle) to clearly demonstrate his regret; current rules violations really don't support regret or changed behavior.


    • Yes! WEF would be in jeopardy but the reall guilty party is the person who signed the entry form. The waiver from USEF which is under New York State Law says that the person who completes the entry form has given an oath that all the information as suppiled is true.

      It is then signed by the parent and the trainer of record. If there is reasonable doubt that the trainer is an employee (whether paid in money or compensated in kind) that person is also a violator. All parties are culpable a assessories.

      That's my point all these innocent people who have been beguiled are actually guilty of lying under oath on each waiver for each show where those circumstances occur.

      That's my point I didn't put those children in jeopardy but I am sorry they are at risk. If I were present I would most likely have not said a word either for the sake of the innocent riders who do not understand the rules.

      However, to me that PV puts them in that position proves he is not remorseful and still believes he is so wonderful he is above the rules.
      http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org


      • Originally posted by Coreene:
        At this point, I think nothing short of the PR peeps who got the British to accept Camilla Parker Bowles would work.
        Very likely, true dat
        *Faune D'Helby*


        • This article was published as Results from a show. Mason Plelps Agency should have had the actual list off the entry forms. If not he was sadly guilty of improper reporting and his whole little empire could collpase if no one believed his PR Releases any more.

          A Media Agency has only two legitmate sources of information the Entry Form information given to each ring and the Announcers notes submitted from that list. It can hardly be a typo.
          http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org


          • Training Level
            Posted Feb. 20, 2006 01:44 PM
            The perfect "cure" for ego and greed is simple...a lifetime ban.
            Posts: 44 | Registered: Feb. 04, 2006
            Agree 110%
            Aefvue Farm Ft.Lauderdale


            • Folks, it is certainly not unheard of for a press release to be in error. Lay off. This is not an inquisition, it is a DISCUSSION... although I fear some of you don't know the difference.


              • Originally posted by Snowbird:
                anthem 35 for exactly the same reasons that you opt to discredit us for our choices in many malicious and manipulative ways.
                I have in NOW way discredited anyone.

                I have continued to respect YOUR choice to not train with Paul.

                I have merely asked that you stop throwing stones for one second and LISTEN.


                • Originally posted by Zorro:
                  Anthem35: please post a link or reference to the correction. For once, I'd like to see the factual proof that a quoted article clearly indicating a current rules violation by PV was in fact an error and was corrected.

                  If you cannot provide proof, as far as I am concerned, the PR document, as quoted on this thread, is the fact of the matter. If there is a rule violation, the USEF should be taking action.

                  Your statement that is was corrected is simply not enough. Cite where the correction can be read.

                  As to your continued postings arguing that PV is truly sorry and has or can change, unless you can prove the correction, I think you have an uphill battle (and I hope the USEF views that HE has an uphill battle) to clearly demonstrate his regret; current rules violations really don't support regret or changed behavior.
                  If you would like to see who owns the horse, look it up.

                  As far as believing every Press Release that comes your way, I'd love to sell you some penny stocks.


                  • Then tell us where to find the published correction which you say was made. I haven't received that my mail must have been lost.

                    Actually, Snowbird-Suppose my analysis of you comes from not only reading your bitter and cynical posts, but from what I have heard about you personally? That you are a bitter old woman who sits by the computer all day with a bottle of booze and whose daughter decided she could no longer work with due to the same? Might not be pretty, but as I said, I have never spoken to you. Only heard things from the rumor mill. Much like your assumptions about Paul.
                    I have in NOW way discredited anyone.
                    Am I to assume the above was a compliment?
                    http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org


                    • Why is the rider putting a pic of Aristocrat in her webshots with the caption "this is the horse Paul Valliere asked me to show in the EQ. We were 8th in the Maclay and got 2 80's in the washington"

                      I tried to link the pic, but it didn't work...

                      Google "aristocrat paul valliere" and it shows up.


                      • Try this....


                        Aefvue Farm....where everyone knows your name


                        • Snowbird, jetsmom... DROP IT!!!!

                          I have no doubt the horse belongs to Paul. However, there are a million and one ways for it to "belong" to Paul and still legally show. Until anyone can prove otherwise, we're going to assume that's the case.

                          Now, if you want to debate whether or not it's honoring the "spirit" of the suspension, that's fine. But the inquisition ends here. Got it?


                          • Here's another


                            Aefvue Farm....where everyone knows your name


                            • At your service the link takes you to some lovely pictures of Aristocrat being shown as owned by Paul Valliere. With Shows at which it was shown. So this was not a one time thing at all.

                              I would say that posting these pictures proves the intention was definitely to the benefit and credit of a suspended person "trainer". Shown by a Junior rider believing it was legally entered. If so this is a valid illustration of ways in which the spirit and intent of the rules is being evaded.
                              http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org


                              • Let me attempt to impress something upon you people.

                                Those of you who are anti-reinstatement are seriously, seriously, SERIOUSLY jeopardizing your privilege to post about this topic here. It is not my job to sit by my computer 24/7 and make sure that you all are behaving like rational adults. If this topic cannot continue in an adult manner -- i.e. in a respectful tone that adults would use when sitting across a table from each other -- it WILL NOT CONTINUE.

                                Exactly how much good are you going to do the no-reinstatement cause by getting the thread closed and getting the subject permanently banned from the COTH BB? Hmm?

                                A select few of you are going to ruin it for everyone if you keep it up. If you're not capable of posting on this thread without being catty and overly dramatic, don't post. Leave it to the more level-headed people to argue the case, because otherwise, NO ONE will be allowed to argue it.

                                I am getting very tired of constantly issuing the same warnings to the same people.


                                • Original Poster


                                  Come on peeps, let's be careful and stick to the real issues.

                                  The reality is that while the horse PROBABLY IS owned by a suspended party, there is NO WAY for USEF to prove that. Unfortunately.

                                  And, being strictly fair, this is hardly the first instance of such razzle-dazzle with paperwork in the history of the horse biz, either. It's one of those things "everyone" does, though "everyone" definitely shouldn't. As such, frankly, the topic doesn't hold a great deal of interest to me.
                                  "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief


                                  • Hi

                                    Im pretty new at posting here, mostly just a lurker.
                                    What Id like to know is just good reason Why this PV character should be reinstated.
                                    Because some are in awe of his training abilties???
                                    If so then all the more reason not to let him in. Sorry Anthem, you seem like a reasonable person, but this is NOT good enough.
                                    Belonging to an organization is not a right, like eating, breathing, working. It is a privilege.
                                    If the guy has an ounce of class at all he will not ever ask to be reinstated.

                                    The more I hear about PVs brilliance as a trainer the bigger a brute I think.


                                    • Since some people aren't getting the hint, I'm just going to delete every post from here on out that is not polite, respectful, nice, and actually contributing to the discussion. Got it?


                                      • Originally posted by Boston Chicken:
                                        If it were me and I needed to communicate about changes I had made in my life to change someone's opinion of me I would consider a couple of things:

                                        1. Consider writing an open letter to the Chronicle
                                        2. Work with one reputable reporter (not in the Palm Beach area but a solid daily paper - think Boston Globe or similar) to tell my story.

                                        He would have to be willing to let it all hang out as it were. The good, bad and the ugly. It won't end up being a glowing piece but it should be truthful and balanced. A powerful resulting story would be hard for him to read in the end.

                                        As for its content, I, personally, would want to hear less about all his good deeds (I know he's done some great things for animals recently) and more about the flawed decisions that led him to making the final decision in the first place. Then I would want some expression of understanding that he knows it's going to take a leap for many people in the community to trust him again. That he intends to earn that trust every day in real, meaningful ways.

                                        I absolutely believe in forgiveness though it's hard for me to look at my horse (who is perfect in my eyes - and hey, you've met him, he's pretty cute ) and understand the As, Bs and Cs that led to the kind of decision that Paul made. But, forgiveness is possible - at least in my mind.
                                        Thank You for your open mind and excellent suggestions.

                                        I truly respct someone who is willing to open up about what THEY need to see, and what they think might be a good place to start.

                                        I will pass on your ideas...Thank You.


                                        • Racetb, I'm not going to spend hours going back through this thread and deleting every out-of-line comment. I'd be here for days.

                                          I am, however, stuck at my computer for the next several hours, and so help me God, my finger is staying poised directly over the delete button. I will not hesitate to delete anything even remotely snarky, and if people keep pushing it, I'll simply give them a nice two-week posting vacation.

                                          You've got two strikes. Wanna go for three?

                                          If you all are going to insist on acting like kindergarteners, you're going to be treated like kindergarteners.