Can you truly afford horses???

[CamdenLab]

In a spinoff of this thread, I am sitting here wondering if I am the only one who, at the end of the month, is pinching pennies until the next paycheck, thanks to my horse?

I have a good job, own a house that I actually have positive equity in, my car is nearly paid off and I have equity in that, too (got a great deal!). I can pay all of my bills on time each month, put food on the table and purchase gifts when needed for birthdays, holidays, etc. So, I'm not really money stupid . . . except when it comes to horses.

I have about $15k in credit card debt (edit: $9k of which is mine personally, the rest I am responsible for, but that was house-related), thanks to my last horse, who had everything wrong with him you can think of right off the bat. I spent my savings purchasing him and all of the tack/equipment needed for a horse since I was a re-rider and kept nothing from my prior time with horses. Stupid, I know, but I didn't think I'd not be able to quickly pay off the debt at the time -- I didn't keep in mind the monthly maintenance expenses or realize he was going to be so difficult to care for. When I finally realized I was in over my head, and was miserable, I sent him back to his previous owner over a year later and he is now pretty much retired and out to pasture for life (he's 11). I ate the cost, but it saved me $600 per month, if we had a very good month (board -- with some worked off -- , shoes, grain/supplements). The stress disappeared and I started putting the money toward my debt.

My plan was to pay off my debt, sell our house and purchase a place with land, then I'd get another horse. I had a three-year plan! Well, my step-daughter caught the horse bug more than I realized and, four months later (once the vet bill from the last horse was paid off and I saved up a little money), there's a new horse on my payroll. She was going to be a freshman and I just could not deny her a horse at this late stage and she is such a great kid -- she deserved it. She loves dressage and she and her mare are good at it. So, now there's lessons and shows. Thank goodness I already had all of the tack and it fits them both! We don't have a trailer, despite the debt, so I pay my two friends $20 to haul us to lessons and shows with them. At least this time I was smart and got an easy-keeper.

Whenever there is a vet visit on the horizon, I get stressed. If there is an emergency, I would have to use my credit card and pray they will accept a payment plan if it's beyond my line of credit. My husband does not know of my debt (edit: the $9k -- Why? We take responsibility for our personal debt, so we don't discuss it unless we need to and we haven't needed to. I don't lie to him, but he would be disappointed I allowed this to happen.) I over-pay each month on time, but if I lost my job . . . oh boy! My daughter is starting to show and schooling shows are well over $100. I'm not sure what I'm going to do when she starts going to recognized shows next year. My girlfriend with more horses than her husband is aware of (one is at her sister's, one is leased, some at their farm he thinks are boarders') tells me that she has sold her soul to the devil more times than she can count over her love of horses. I know what she means.

My husband helps out, but not directly. He pays for things at home so that I don't have to worry about that, which makes life easier on me. My daughter and I do work at the barn to save money on board, and that money goes toward lessons and showing. We were offered to work even more and could potentially pay off all of our board, but I also work 50 hours per week and she has a large work-load at school as she is in several honors classes, so we can't cut into her homework/study or sleep time. We'll do what we can, of course . . . As much as we want to, we don't buy new designer saddle pads and riding clothes all the time. We look for the best value all the time -- often buying used.

We all complain a little about the cost of horses but I'm at my limit financially. I make ends meet, I don't bounce checks, and I'm not starving, but rarely have anything left over at the end of the month. What I do have ends up getting spent eventually, usually on vet bills for the horse or one of my three elderly dogs. When I see people who board at very expensive facilities, take weekly lessons or more, show constantly and have the best of everything, I often wonder if they are at their limit, too?

I sometimes feel like because I don't have a trailer or because I can't afford this, that or the other thing, people are thinking that I shouldn't have a horse. Admittedly, when I know someone is broke (because they tell me) but I also know they smoke cigarettes or spend a lot of money on take-out or they have a new car that they don't need (a souped-up Excursion for a single guy who lives in the city, for instance), I feel a little judgmental and suggest -- sometimes in my head -- cutting out the ciggies and the drive-throughs and trading the truck in for a Kia.

Question is, is it just me? Am I a bad person? Irresponsible? Or is this the norm, no matter if you have your pet horse at the most basic self-care situation or board at the most expensive facility and show every weekend? Besides the very rich, do any horsepeople have money left at the end of the month?

[Jo]

Originally Posted by CamdenLab

My husband does not know of my debt.

IMHO - this is not fair to be carrying such a sizable debt in a marriage without the other partner knowing. I'd suggest having a sit-down chat with hubby ASAP.

[2bee]

Since you asked; continuing to lesson/show (and possibly horse ownership to begin with) while having such a considerable cc debt is living beyond your means and I would consider it irresponsible. I will refrain from comment about your husband not knowing of the debt, and your girlfriend.....

Is this the norm? I certainly hope not, although I suspect it is far more common than it should be. To answer your question, yes I can truly afford my horses/lifestyle at this point. I have money left over every month, and have savings in place for unexpected expenses to include (in theory) loss of a job for a year. Granted, shit can hit the fan at any time and I could be living in a cardboard box........but you're sort of throwing shit in the fan just waiting for someone to turn it on.

I will be curious to see what direction this "poll" takes.

[King's Ransom]

I have come to the conclusion that, despite my self-delusions, with the turn of the economy, I truly cannot afford horses. Not in the luxury-item sense of the word.

But I would not be a wealthier person without them -- I would be infinitely poorer. They have enriched my life in ways I could never tally on a spreadsheet. And they continue to do so every day. If I were to suddenly be without them, I would be heartbroken beyond words.

Someday I may regret the money I spent to enjoy them, when my retirement fund is non-existent and I am struggling to find somebody to pay me for the words I write ... but then, maybe I will have something to write about because of them??? At any rate, people spend $$ on many things they can't afford, some of them destructive, like alcohol, tobacco, or other drugs-of-choice.

These horses are my family, and as long as I can, I will support them as best I can -- and they support me as best they can, too.

P.S. - I have a dear friend who always scrimped and saved and put $$ away for retirement instead of doing foolish things like buying horses. She lost a HUGE chunk of that last year and will not be able to retire "on time" as she had planned. In fact, she is almost as destitute as me. The big difference, as I see it, is that the pirates on Wall Street did not take my money. I chose to spend it on my three best friends instead. Sorta pricelss, eh?

[Duckz]

Short answer? Yes, it is irresponsible to carry sizable debt without your spouse's knowledge, and yes it is irresponsible to fund your daughter's involvement in the sport if it puts you in the red every month.

Think of it this way - how is your daughter going to feel down the road when you realize you're too old to work, can't afford retirement, are in debt up to your eyeballs, and she has to support you for the next 20+ years? I bet it would put those childhood lessons and shows in perspective.

Hiding it from hubby is a whole 'nuther ball of wax. Bad plan.

Sorry for all the negativity, but it's better to hear this now when you can do something about it!

[Carrera]

I feel your pain. Right now, for me, its tight. I work off board on one horse, but I have 6 more at home. I just got a new job after my last contract was up (and they still owe me $$), but the in-between time where there wasn't a pay check, really hurt.

I don't know how your friend can keep extra horses a secret from her hubby. I have ALWAYS been very upfront on the costs of my horses, and my SO is very willing to help me out when I am in too deep.

If there was an emergency I know that he would step up and help out, but most if the horses are insured, so I'm not too worried about it.

And really, you are a family and she is his daughter, he should know what everything costs.

[saultgirl]

Can I truly afford horses? Yes. I pay my bills + put away savings + make extra mortgage payments every month, and I have no debt except for the mortgage.

I would be able to retire a lot sooner without the horse, but this is what I choose to do with my time and money while I am young, healthy, and have no children.

Can you truly afford horses? Maybe you will get by until your husband finds out you're hiding things? Sounds like you're on a slipperly slope. If you're looking for someone to say what you are doing is fine and normal, it won't be me.

[ddashaq]

I am with KR on this. That said, there is no way that I would carry that much horse debt without my husband knowing. I also do not put horse stuff like shows and equipment on my credit cards. It is either paid in cash or it is not purchased. I try to keep the horse thing paid in full, not something that I carry debt on, if that makes any sense at all. That would completely freak me out.

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

[quote=King's Ransom;4655305] I have a dear friend who always scrimped and saved and put $$ away for retirement instead of doing foolish things like buying horses. She lost a HUGE chunk of that last year and will not be able to retire "on time" as she had planned. In fact, she is almost as destitute as me. The big difference, as I see it, is that the pirates on Wall Street did not take my money. I chose to spend it on my three best friends instead. Sorta pricelss, eh?[/QUOTE]

Well said.

[InWhyCee Redux]

Originally Posted by Duckz

Think of it this way - how is your daughter going to feel down the road when you realize you're too old to work, can't afford retirement, are in debt up to your eyeballs, and she has to support you for the next 20+ years? I bet it would put those childhood lessons and shows in perspective.

She HAS TO support you for the next 20+ years? It would be nice, sure, but there is no law saying your offspring has to support you in your old age!

OP, I think you should make a strict budget for yourself and PAY OFF THE DEBT ASAP. And don't just tell your SO about your new budget, tell your daugher. She may need to step up and start addressing some of her riding expenses NOW, whether that means a PT job or fewer shows.

[olympicprincess]

I "can" afford horses, but is it my best decision at this time? No.
I have school & CC debt; I'm just working towards it at a slower pace b/c of the horses.

I worked so hard to be able to afford my 2 horses (1 show, 1 retiree) while I was in college that there's no way I would give them up now after going through all that- having to budget like mad, work (office job & barn worker 6 days/wk), study (FT student), no sleep, etc.

I'm not married (have no interest in being tied down and won't give up horses for marriage ) and I am not having kids.

It's my money, my life, my decision.

There are all kinds of threads on here about little ways to save money that really ADD UP. Try a search. You may get some good ideas.

[Tif_Ann]

I agree with King's Ransom - truly, I probably can't afford horses. In fact, I've just recently "retired" my QH to my mother's because he is really only suited to be a trail horse (15 with wobbles) and I really can't justify spending about $400 a month on him to ride once or twice a month. That money goes towards paying off debt and savings towards my next horse. I still have my pinto - my show horse - but he thrives in pasture and is an easy keeper, costs me about $200 a month including his yearly shots. I *am* still paying off his vet bill from his squamous cell carcinoma last year though.

That said - first and foremost - you need to come clean with your husband on the debt. You don't need that stress too should something happen. I also agree that paying off the debt should be your first priority. It's tough choices. Like right now, the vet bill has to be paid off before spring shots, that's one of my "musts." I also can't justify shows if I have an outstanding vet bill. Last year I had to put many plans on hold to pay off vet bills (two horses with major issues) and couldn't show when I lost my job. It hurt like heck - especially to cancel a planned trip to Colorado to spend a week in intensive training with my trainers AND do my first eventing show... but the vet bills and care of the horses was more important.

It's taken a lot of time but I have finally got to a point where there is "money left over" every month. BUT that money is going to paying off debt mostly ... I'm paying extra on my car payment, for example, because it's my highest interest rate. I also have roommates now, to help with living expenses, carpool with my sister, follow The Grocery Game to save money on groceries and such, and try to eat at home and bring lunch as much as I can. I haven't taken a vacation in five years. I'd like to travel again ... but ... I chose horses instead.

It sucks to not be able to buy the cool stuff, spend what I want on my horses, etc., but responsibility is in how you handle the money and not over extending - which only you can define. Maybe $15k in credit card debt isn't that big of a deal to you - it would be devastating to me. I wouldn't be able to justify ANY spending on horses other than the care of the one I have, no shows, no lessons, no new tack, nothing but the basics, until I paid that off. Heck, I'm struggling justifying $20 on a pair of sport medicine boots for my pinto who apparently bowed a tendon last year (missed it in all the treatments for his eye) because they are only a convenience - I can continue just wrapping him. And my vet bill isn't atrocious - it's around $1000 - but for me that's about $800 more than I'm willing to have sitting at the vet (I prefer it paid off).

Only you can sit down and figure out what you can afford and what you can't. It might mean only doing a couple shows this year while you pay things off and get more comfortable. I urge you to look into The Grocery Game - the savings is crazy. There's a free trial - PM me for my email if you are willing to give me a referral credit if you do it

Good luck ... and when it comes down to it we all have our vices. Like you said - it could be smoking, or eating out, or whatever. But with horses - animals of any kind - we have a bigger responsibility to be a little more money savvy and planning ahead, since they are completely dependent on us.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

[quote=pAin't_Misbehavin';4655330]

Originally Posted by King's Ransom

I have a dear friend who always scrimped and saved and put $$ away for retirement instead of doing foolish things like buying horses. She lost a HUGE chunk of that last year and will not be able to retire "on time" as she had planned. In fact, she is almost as destitute as me. The big difference, as I see it, is that the pirates on Wall Street did not take my money. I chose to spend it on my three best friends instead. Sorta pricelss, eh?[/QUOTE]

Well said.

Can I afford horses--yes, but it took several years!

Re the above--That's unfortunate--I feel bad for your friend. My account went down to some degree like everyone elses, but I'm back to whole at this point--so I don't think that everyone who put away for retirement is really regretting that, assuming they didn't cash out at the low, etc.? I guess I wouldn't avoid retirement savings to own a horse is my point. I'm not counting on social security either though.

OP, I would figure out what interest you pay every month on that $15k and make paying that off a huge priority. You will have sooooo much more breathing room! I'm guessing interest and minimum payments eat up at least $400 a month? You will be so happy when that is gone. Maybe pick up a copy of the "Total Money Makeover" if you feel so moved.

Re telling the spouse, if I found out my spouse (and I can only speak for me) had accumulated $15k in credit card debt that I didn't know about, I would probably file for divorce--and we've been married for 8 years. I crave financial security though--my debt tolerance level is low. But the kicker would be the hiding/secret. So no idea what to tell you to do on that one, or for your overall question--I don't know what it's like in your shoes or how you and your spouse view your relationship.

Good luck.

[furlong47]

No, I can't afford horses, so I don't have any right now. Is it hard? Absolutely. When everyone else is out for a trail ride or off to a show, I can't participate in the same way. I love to go watch my friends, cheer for them, take photos, etc, but of course I wish I could be out there enjoying the activity too. For now I have to be happy with lessons, in-barn fun shows, and bumming the occasional ride from a friend. Sometimes I wish I could just cut loose and go crazy, put everything on the credit cards, wipe out the savings account, and have what I want... but I wasn't raised that way. I was brought up to be financially responsible and I'm not going to go deep into debt or build myself a financial house of cards over what is really a leisure activity and a want, not a need.

[Trixie]

Yes, if I didn't want a house.

No, if I want to save any money.

But I’m fortunate that I am able to ride other people’s horses, and pay for showing and training – which I can afford and still have some left at the end of the month. I’m hoping to eventually buy a farm.

There is no "deserves to show" when the finances aren't there. Horses are a privilege, not a right.

I did not have a horse growing up either. The finances weren't there. My parents were amazingly supportive and did the best that they could, and supported lessons and some (even "A") showing - and even once a lease - but the month to month costs of boarding in Washington DC were astronomical even then and it wasn't in their financial plan.

Guess what? I didn't wither and die. Yes, it was harder than it is for some, but I'm now quite a bit older and still loving riding. I've also learned that it's possible to ride and show and keep horses on a shoestring.

Use this as an opportunity to clean up your finances and teach your daughter about money.

[twohotponies]

No, I cant really afford the 4 we currently have. I pay the bills on time, buy food, gas for the vehicles, and feed/bedding for the horses. Then we are out of money.

The thing that holds us up financially isn't the horses though. Its the credit cards. I have closed all but 3 and am working on paying them down but its slow going on one income. A major veterinary expense would be disastrous right now if I didn't have such a great vet, who would let me pay in installments.

Our situation is far from ideal but we are happy, our horses are happy, and things are going to get better for us soon.

I also would never keep anything a secret from my husband. Its his money we live on. Most of the time he doesn't want to know, so I only tell him when things have changed from the usual routine.

[BuddyRoo]

If I didn't walk into my current situation already HAVING horses, I would not buy one now as I cannot COMFORTABLY afford them. In order to be putting anything towards savings/retirement, I have to cover my horse expense with a second "job". Instead, to keep horses in my life, I would try to half lease.

When I moved up here in 2003 I had 3 horses. My BuddyRoo is now deceased. I've had my mare Cheyenne since the day she was born...nearly 20 years..I'll do just about anything to keep her til her last day on this planet. I recently rehomed my other horse to a great new owner because I simply could not afford it anymore due to some changes.

I have no credit card debt. I have a mortgage, a car payment (didn't have one of those for 11 years! Was sad to see that car die last year!) and student loans. I make decent money and have job security unlike a lot of people...but my expenses are rather large. Had I known the area better when I was looking to buy a home, I would've gone about 30 min north and bought an acreage for what I ended up spending in town. C'est la vie.

Anyway.

I'm not a shopper...I renew my work wardrobe once every few years with very classic pieces of good quality that do not have to be replaced every season. I don't have extra tack. I don't show. I don't go out to dinner often. I don't eat fast food. My house is pretty bare bones with the furniture I had when I moved here in 03. About two years ago my absolute SAINT of a farrier taught me to trim so I do my own. My horse is relatively healthy and she's for SURE very happy....and thank GOODNESS because I'm spending a lot in board compared to what I could've EVER imagined when I left Texas!

I'm OKAY with all of that. I honestly don't WANT to shop, I don't WANT to have a bunch of extra stuff, I don't need my house to be fancy. And I WANT my horse to be well cared for.

BUT. I'm probably one of those you'd say "can't afford a horse".

Thing is, I can and a I DO. I couldn't afford to live like some of my friends AND have a horse....ya know, the 50k car and dropping 1k a month on clothes, and taking 2 week vacations to tropical islands each February. But I tutor college bio/nursing/pre med classes and make decent money doing that--enough to cover my monthly planned horse expenses.

Would my financial life be EASIER without my horse? Yes. Absolutely.

But I'd probably have to pay about 75 bucks a week on therapy and 30/mo on meds and frankly, that's break even point.

So I'll keep my horse and my sanity, thank you.....and I'll make it work.

Just to reiterate though...I would NOT choose this again. I would half lease. And I certainly would not hide it from my spouse if I had one. That seems like a good way to drive yourself nuts AND end up divorced.

Wish you the best OP!

[QHDQ]

I'm not going to comment on whether you are irresponsible or not. However, what you do from here is important.

Regarding your daughter showing...if you really can't afford it, and it sounds like you can't, you are going to need to have a sit-down with daughter (and hubby). I would suggest that if she wants to show, she needs to pay for it. Period. You are a family in this together. You would be teaching her a valuable life lesson too. She can get a part-time job, she could babysit, etc.

Good luck.

[Huntertwo]

Being married, I could never imagine hiding my debt or a horse from my husband. That is just plain wrong....

How would you feel if he did the same?

Can I afford my horse? Yes and no...
Fortunately at the moment DH can handle all the house hold bills with his income and his side business.

I work at a barn and earn just enough to pay for my horse, personal expenses and credit card bill which is also "up there". But, I'm never late on any bills.

I hope to move to a less expensive place shortly which will save me $150.00 a month. I'll have to forgo the indoor, but so be it.

If I were in your shoes, I'd cut out any expenses deemed not necessary.
Shows, schooling shows etc.
Use that extra $$$ to pay down your debt.

Good luck.

[King's Ransom]

I want to add... the OP's question was "Can you truly afford horses?" not "Do you think I can afford my horse habit?"

I chose not to comment on whether or not I thought SHE could afford horses ... I sorta think that's none of my business. Having said that, however, I would add that I don't think anyone should hide debt from their spouse.

Also, there are many ways to enjoy horses, some of them perhaps within one's budget and some -- not so much. Right now, I am not taking lessons because the budget is tight. I don't own a truck & trailer because the budget doesn't accommodate that. My barn is not the spectacular, well-organized place I wish it were ... so you find compromises. Sometimes, other horse folks scorn your compromises ... well, until they step up to pay your bills, they are just clanging cymbals to me!