Appaloosa Pattern question...

[amdfarm]

I'm wondering if anyone has had a foal go from solid w/ a blanket to varnish roan and then to leopard?

I have a 3yo that I bred that appears to be doing just that, but I won't be 100% positive until he sheds out his winter coat completely. It's a work in progress right now and he's FILTHY!

The reason I'm wondering is that I've been noticing black spots under his winter white/roan coat and he has spots on his sides that weren't part of his blanket before (they've migrated down much lower on the side of his belly.) And those that have "migrated" have no white at all, they are black and clearly visible. The others are definitely under there.

So is it very possible that I'm actually going to end up w/ my dream leopard? I'm about tempted to break out the clippers and just clip those "spots" where I'm seeing the black underneath to find out for sure. I almost can't stand the thought of waiting until he sheds.

TIA

[Halt At X]

I hav never heard of that, but my horse did the same thing, minus the leopard part.

When he was born he looked like this:

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...ntage022-1.jpg

And he is 10 now and looks like this:

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...neral015-2.jpg

I NEVER would have guessed he would turn out the way he did, but I think he is super handsome

[appychik]

Gringo did. Started as a bay with a blanket, then went to a bay leopard with varnishings (legs never changed once they got "varnished"). He's pretty.

Got any pictures of your boy?

FWIW, I don't have pictures of Gringo from his 2-3 year old. I got him as a late three year old (purchased in fall '06, he's a '03 baby) and the coloring change had already happened. The photos I have of him as a long yearling (I think) still show the full blanket. Amazing how fast those Appys change.

Long yearling (I think): http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink and http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink

Now, at six: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink and http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink.

I don't have any foal photos, sorry.

[MistyBlue]

Not to leopard that I can think of...but I have seen Apps do some pretty unexplainable things with their coat patterns!
Craziest one was an App cross little colt I knew as a teen. He started out a bright bay, hip blanket/snow cap, no spots. In the years I knew him...one spring he was dark bay, blanket twice it's size with spots now. Next spring he was black/black bay, snowcap/blanket to withers, peacock spots everywhere and flashing on his legs that year. nest year he was roany pinkish purple almost all over and a couple years after that he was back to darker colored with blanket. Never ever saw one go back to dark before or have spots come and go. That was one odd little horse.
I've seen them go leopard with more spots, but I don't think ever from a roan/varnish. And I've seen them lose spots.
At least the fun thing about appies besides their senses of humors is every spring you never know what you'll have for color until they finish shedding!

[amdfarm]

Thanks gals.

Halt At X... that's what my boy did, too. I was VERY SHOCKED. He roaned as a 2yo. His dam did the same thing and she's still very much varnished, but she has ZERO spots.

He looked like this LAST winter.
http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...asnow1229b.jpg

And when he shed out last spring, this is what I got. This is him last fall. Not the most flattering pic as he took his tail, mane and foretop w/ him. If you note his blanket in the first pic, it was very uniform like that on BOTH sides. Now you can see how he has black spots where he didn't have spots before. Further down the sides and girth area. So odd.
http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...orgt102808.jpg

I know they can do odd things and I'll end up w/ a new horse maybe every spring, but his dam hasn't changed since I got her and his full brother doesn't have a lick of white on him anywhere!!

[Daydream Believer]

amd...I think he is roan. Some darker apps do roan out like that. Roans change seasonally anyway...about this time of the year, mine get an awful motheaten light color all over and they darken up a bit when they shed out. They darken again in Fall.

[amdfarm]

DB... I know he's roan now, but I'm not sure if he'll stay that way, but I guess I'll find out when all that winter coat comes out.

His varnish dam changes w/ the seasons, too. She's darker in the winter, as fairly typical for classic roans (not just app roans) and lighter in the summer.

Here is his dam a couple winters ago. Pic taken from video so not the best, but shows her winter color and fabulous movement. She's very light "grey" in the summer and her varnish stands out a lot more.
http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...nowvid1207.jpg

If he changes again my dad will ask if I got another new horse, like he did last spring after he changed the first time. And here I thought he never paid attention.

[BeaSting]

When I was stationed in Georgia, my friend sent me her yearling filly to "play" with. She started out solid bay with a little splash of white on her rump. A year later when my friend came to take her home, the filly had roaned out so much my friend walked right by her without recognizing her. She didn't believe me when I insisted that it was indeed her girl. By the time she was five, she had gone completely white with varnish and a few spots on her rump.

[Proud To Be Spotted]

Since he is so dark, the spots were likely there, but you never noticed. My dk. bay mare if you catch her in the right light, right after she finishes shedding, under a full moon....... you can see more spots on her barrel up to her withers, even where her blanket is not. She is very, very, very (thankfully) roaning, so Im sure in her later years she will look more like your guy.

[Woodland]

You never know what or how many spots you'll get season to season year to year!

I have had numerous nearly solids go leopard viola` The key is the coloration around the eyes - when you see color on the hind end AND color around the eyes on a youngster be prepared for a BIG change come spring! It's like "is that MY horse"?

[amdfarm]

Thanks again guys.

PTBS... I wondered that, as well, but I swear I never saw them all last spring, summer, fall and winter!! Some little horse coloring gremlin is out there holding up his coat and using a sharpie at night, then sometimes forgets to hold up his coat.

Woodland... How do you mean color around the eyes? Sclera or like a horse that's going to go grey? He has a ton of sclera around his eyes and his rearend, but then it took two years for the varnish roan to come out. His eyes have never looked like a horse going to go grey. He has very typical appy eyes.

I certainly don't mind the roan and if he has more spots after he sheds, that's a bonus to me. I think he's quite handsome. I need to get some new pics of him, but now that it's mud season, he's so dirty, that spots are hard to mistake as dirt marks. He's been leaving white hair patches all over from rolling his itchies.

I'm glad to know that it can happen, too. Leopards from solid that is. I've always wanted a black and white leopard.

[Seven-up]

Originally Posted by amdfarm

Thanks gals.

Halt At X... that's what my boy did, too. I was VERY SHOCKED. He roaned as a 2yo. His dam did the same thing and she's still very much varnished, but she has ZERO spots.

He looked like this LAST winter.
http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...asnow1229b.jpg

And when he shed out last spring, this is what I got. This is him last fall. Not the most flattering pic as he took his tail, mane and foretop w/ him. If you note his blanket in the first pic, it was very uniform like that on BOTH sides. Now you can see how he has black spots where he didn't have spots before. Further down the sides and girth area. So odd.
http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...orgt102808.jpg

I know they can do odd things and I'll end up w/ a new horse maybe every spring, but his dam hasn't changed since I got her and his full brother doesn't have a lick of white on him anywhere!!

Ok, wow. That's a bit of a change. Are you sure somebody didn't sneak into your pasture and switch horses?

I had a horse who looked a lot like Halt at X's 10 yr old shot, and she changed from summer to winter. Summer coat was very coppery, and winter coat was much whiter. But man, no change like your guy!

[amdfarm]

Originally Posted by Seven-up

Ok, wow. That's a bit of a change. Are you sure somebody didn't sneak into your pasture and switch horses?

I had a horse who looked a lot like Halt at X's 10 yr old shot, and she changed from summer to winter. Summer coat was very coppery, and winter coat was much whiter. But man, no change like your guy!

Yeah, you could say that! My best friend and fellow horse breeder and lover was almost disappointed that he didn't stay dark bay w/ his blankie. I told her he's still the same horse only a different color. I would have liked him to stay non-roan also, but his genes had other plans.

And that's about the comment my dad made after his "change". Cause he asked where that one came from, but where did the other one go. But then he thinks his dam is new every year and she doesn't change much. That's my dad though.

Here's one of my favorite pics of him as a baby. His full out blanket shot while napping.
http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...coltnap801.jpg

And here's a pic of his dam w/ her summer coat (note how much lighter she is and more varnished) and her '04 colt. This is my boys full brother... the more typical plain bay I'm used to getting.
http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...onsara602b.jpg

[Alagirl]

cool, me thinks an Appy is the must have horse....

If you don't like the color, wait a year...

[sa11yb]

My horse did the same thing (I was told by the seller). He stated out being a bay with a blanket and is now a leopard with black legs.

[TikiSoo]

I board at an appy breeders, so I've seen every color/pattern imaginable grow up & change. It seems that any solid dark areas can roan out, but any large spots stay the same.
We have one tri color leopard youngster who has not changed a bit as he's aged, while one with brown/black/gray brindle body with a white blanket has roaned out to be almost totally white with only fleabit spots of color.

I also recall our now retired vet told the owner that the gene that produces a really full mane and tail on an appy will also produce a solid appy with very few spots & changes. The gene that promotes spotting/roaning/changing also gives a thinner mane and tail, which appys are known for. Sounds kind of like an old wive's tale, but it holds true for all appys on our farm!

[Sdhaurmsmom]

I have a horse who started as dark liver chestnut with a rump blanket. By the time I bought him, at nine, he was mostly white, with scattered solid spots, peacock spots, and lacing all over his body. The spots are liver chestnut, his base color is silver white, and from the knees down his coat is golden - he has some liver chestnut varnish roaning on the knees and hocks.

When I bought him both his mane and tail were solid white, and quite shockingly full, especially for an Appy. Since then, liver chestnut has gradually migrated into both his mane and tail, causing a loss of fullness. Someone explained to me that asAppy mane/tail color shifts, the hair becomes especially brittle and just breaks off, and that this accounts for the thin hair in many Appys. Sigh.

No feed supplement, no conditioner, seems to help stop this brittleness, and I've finally given up and roached his mane...because only the top half grows enough to braid...the lower half is white and chestnut and VERY thin. Too thin to grab over a jump, either! I have to use a neck strap, LOL!

[Mr. Jig]

This is such an interesting topic to me since I just recently bought two young apps and I am noticing color changes. One is solid, no characteristics but I am still seeing white hairs in his winter coat, he just turned three. The other, just turned two, is a blanket app who doesn't seem to be roaning in his winter coat but I have noticed the change around his eyes, the skin is becoming mottled. Should I expect him to roan out this year? I know he has darker spots under his bay because in the summer you can see them. I can't wait to see what happens, I do love his blanket pattern and coat color but I also like the varnishing too. I will post pictures once the winter coats shed.

[Seven-up]

I'm not super crazy about appys, even though my first horse was one. But I was looking at the wap threads, and thinking I could really go for one of those pretty moving, blanket appys. But this thread is making me wonder if I would (hypothetically- I'm not buying) get one of those pretty little foals and then end up with something that didn't remotely look like what I thought it would. Hmmm.

[2DogsFarm]

apologize for minor hijack:

Are Apps the only breed to do this?
I boarded with a guy whose older horse was a fleabitten gray including a light-colored mane & tail.
He showed me a picture of a bay horse and when I asked what horse it was he told me it was his boy 20 years earlier!
I don't recall if his horse was an Appaloosa or not.