Needed-A shift in thinking about horse falls

[denny]

For as long as I can remember there`s been a tacit acceptance of horses falling during the xc phase of eventing.

If you go to any big event, almost certainly at least one horse will fall, and often several.
We know this before we go, which means even though we don`t like it, we accept the strong posibility of it.

And when those falls result in the injury or death of some nice horse, there`s a flood of sympathy for the rider and the owner of the horse.

But I believe it`s time for eventing to create a paradigm shift, so that falling horses are simply not acceptable in modern eventing.

I can think of any number of fairly Draconian measures to help bring about such a shift, including automatic suspensions for riders who have a horse fall, up to, and including fines and longer suspensions when the fall or death is determined to be the "fault" of the rider.

But since those who make the rules are frequently the same people having the falls, or their connections, I doubt my ideas would fly.

Way too many nice horses pay eventing`s price each year. In just the last several weeks, 2 of England`s very best riders have lost advanced horses, adding to a long list of horses who died in 2008 alone.

Isn`t it time to finally say "enough?"

But if so, how?

[poltroon]

So Denny, are you thinking that riders aren't careful enough, and so hard sanctions against them would make horse falls less common, or are you thinking that if the riders faced hard sanction that they would be more active in finding a solution for the sport?

[denny]

Poltroon---A bit of both.
If we could make our top riders TRUE advocates for horse safety, it would eventually impact all manner of things, like xc design, speeds, pressing tired horses, entering events a horse or rider isn`t really ready for, etc, etc.

[kookicat]

Which other rider lost a top horse? I'm behind on all the news

I'm not sure what can be done to stop horse falls IMO. There will always be riders out there who are willing to take risks.

[denny]

Zara Phillips.

[kookicat]

Originally Posted by denny

Zara Phillips.

Damn, I'd forgotten that

[Toadie's mom]

Hasn't the short format been around long enough to get bottom line statistics on injuries, deaths, falls (of all horses and riders) compared to the long format? I'd include this latest debacle (the 1/2 day event that Mary King was in) in the short format category. Just compare the last 3 yrs of long format, with the 1st 3yrs of short, or is that not considered statistically viable yet?

I think I know where Denny stands, and I'm on his side.

[Classic Melody]

Denny, I agree with you that absolutely no horse falls should be acceptable. But in Mary King's case, to take that example, we lauded her (or at least I did) for a gutsy, inspiring Hong Kong ride in the rain; while I don't know what happened today, I'm sure she rode with the same bravado and poise. Only this time, either she or her horse made an error in judgment, and he paid for it. It could have happened in Hong Kong. But luck was on her side then.

For no more horse falls to be acceptable, I am finally thinking that we need to radically change what eventing is. I used to be against the idea of collapsable XC jumps. I thought it ended the essence of eventing. But you know what? If the essence of eventing is that horses pay for mistakes with their lives, then I not only reject horse falls as unacceptable - I reject eventing.

They say that converts are the most fervent believers - and as a hunter rider turned eventer, I think it's true. But the last year has really shaken me. I don't think I can continue to support a sport where horses die as a matter of course - at the upper levels, no less, where the pros are supposed to be better and know more than little old me. I can't defend it to my fellow horsemen in different disciplines, even when I think the training and horsemanship I have witnessed in eventers is singularly without peer - but generally it is a massive fail.

Collapsable jumps. Made of rugs stuffed with ping pong balls, I don't care. Just don't want to see any more horses dying.

[Gnep]

I think we see far greater risk taking since the short format came on line, less preservation

[RunForIt]

Y'know, the reality is, that this sport can kill a horse as well as a rider. Several threads ago, someone posted the fact that eventing as a sport seems to accept that if a horse loses its life during an event - that's ok because its simply the way of eventing (I've paraphrased here but know that I've kept the true gist of the statement), and horse died doing what it loves.

I may walk away today.

[poltroon]

The way I see it, this sport cannot continue unless the fatalities stop. And I'm a devoted eventing fan.

It seems to me that that's about as draconian a consequence as they get.

[magnolia73]

It's just really sad and really takes the enjoyment out of the sport. I guess it is fun to watch a NASCAR crash, but with horses it is just sad. I hope that courses are not being designed with the hope of tripping up horses and riders.

Hopefully there will be change from within or soon there will be change from the outside. But as someone who is a nobody, I don't feel like there is anything I can do. I certainly don't have any solutions beyond make it easier if the best are struggling to come out with neck and horse intact. It's still impressive even if the difficulty gets knocked back a few rungs.....

[magnolia73]

It seems to me that that's about as draconian a consequence as they get.

And I find it disturbing that at least 2 riders suffered near fatal falls this year and are already back in the saddle competing at challenging (for anyone) levels. I'm not so sure they appreciate or understand the risk enough to be charged with the determination of acceptable risk for their horses.

[kdow]

Originally Posted by kookicat

I'm not sure what can be done to stop horse falls IMO. There will always be riders out there who are willing to take risks.

Then there needs to be some kind of system to penalize stupid risk-taking. Maybe just that jump judges need to be more aggressive in terms of identifying dangerous riding?

I think an element of this is also to do more to encourage people to withdraw if there's any question as to the well-being of the horse. (I don't just mean if the horse takes a bad step, I mean also in cases where the horse just feels NQR or isn't riding the way he usually does.) If you read the threads addressing upper level riders who've had horse problems, there's often a lot of talk excusing them from responsibility due to competitiveness or adrenaline, and I think we need to STOP thinking that's acceptable. At any level, the rider's number 1 priority MUST be the welfare of the horse.

If you are someone who gets so caught up in competing that you're unable to remove yourself from competition when it's best for the horse that you do so, then so sorry, so sad, I don't care how good you are at riding, you are not qualified to be an upper level rider. There's more to responsibly competing than being able to stay in the saddle and get the horse from A to B.

(I should add that I know there will still be relatively random incidents where a horse is going fine and takes a bad step and suddenly is very injured- that happens. That happens with horses turned out, with no rider at all. We'll never have a perfect record with ANY equestrian sport. But it could be a heck of a lot better than it is.)

[poltroon]

I think that if a horse or rider had died at Hong Kong, (given the string of earlier fatalities) that eventing would be finished as an Olympic sport. I think everyone who loves this sport, but especially the ULR who depend on its inclusion in the Olympics, needs to understand that deep in their hearts.

I have tickets for the WEG. I'm not pulling my daughter out of school and spending all that money to see ANYONE die.

We have to do whatever we can to make sure that the horses and riders come home safe, even if it's an overreaction. (And somehow we have to make sure our changes don't make things worse.) If it means cross country is dramatically simpler, then so be it. If it means fences break away, so be it. If it means the entire cross country course is made of brush-type steeplechase jumps, then so be it. Clean rounds for everyone is fine for a year or two while we figure this out.

[denny]

As I said, this idea that falling horses is simply an integral by-product of eventing cross country is nothing new, and can`t/shouldn`t be blamed on the short format.

Probably this somewhat callous attitude derives in part from our cavalry heritage, when horses were simply expendable commodities. I read that one common denominator of most Civil War battles was the sight of hundreds of dead horses on the battlefield.

No other non-racing horse sport that I`m aware of condones horse falls, and maybe we can learn from them.

Certainly this instant communication/internet phenomenon brings what was formerly more hidden directly to front page news.

Another positive side to a paradigm shift re. horse falls is that this would also greatly lessen the chance of human fatalities and crippling injuries. Everybody falls off. It`s when we get fallen ON that the worst things so often happen.

But this would be a BIG shift, going against a long history, and I`m not sure how it could be accomplished.

Thoughts??

[kookicat]

Flame suit firmly on.

I don't think it ever will happen. Or at least without changing eventing beyond recognition. I could be wrong. I hope that I am.

There's just so many factors that can cause a fall. I can't see a way to remove or minimise all of them.

[snoopy]

Originally Posted by kookicat

Damn, I'd forgotten that

Not to pick on you at all but rather using this staement as an example. Fatalities are becoming common place so much so that we "forget" some of those that have happened fairly recently. Not a good sign for our sport when we are willing to forget so soon.

[starboard]

Do you think that Mary King is feeling indifferent about the loss of her beautiful horse this evening?

The generalization that top riders are not advocates for their horses safety and well-being is disturbingly untrue and unfair.

[flyingchange]

I watched Oliver Townsend's "XC" at the Express Eventing show .... That is not eventing to me. To call that eventing XC is actually insulting at best. Probably more accurately described as disturbing. I read that the footing was grass on a thin layer of topsoil placed on moveable pallets and that this little "issue" was causing horses to be nervous. DOYATHINK???

What makes me sad and a little disgusted is all the riders who think it's such a great idea. WTF.

The worst part for me is that when I saw the headline for Call Again Cavalier's death, I basically shrugged/felt nothing. I'm used to it at this point.