USDF DSHB showing fees

[gabriellemg]

This might be a stupid question, but why is showing
USDF DBHB classes so expensive? I wanted to take my yearling to one show last year and when I added up USDF fees, show fees, stabling,
professional handler, and professional braider it was over $300.00 for one class. I can be a handler and can braid, but I am not a professional in either area. My braiding skills are not the best, and I have been told that if you don't have a professional you don't have a chance. I don't live close enough to the facility to haul in.

Plus in our area it looks like the same people present horses each show.
They are very nice, but if the pool of candidates are small then it skews
the results of who are the up and coming horses. It also skews who are breeding what in America.

GG
Texas

[patch work farm]

This is the cost of competition, dressage classes are quite costly as well. I agree the costs may seem high but when you break down why there are costs, think about the judge needs to be paid, the facility needs to deal with facility upkeep, the USDF/USEF track this information (imho, not necessarily as well as we would like, but that is another thread for another day...).
I would think that what you said about "the same repeat competitors" may be due to a few things:
1) Cost
2) Interest in showing

I know that I have to put x aside for my fees (as you listed: entry fees, braider, handler, etc.) if I can't afford it, I don't do it but I have to weigh WHY I am showing that youngster. Is it for sale and possibly showing it, might sell it? Am I trying to give it show experience? (this is my main reason for taking youngsters to shows so they are used to shows by the time they are u/s).

It also is not for the feign of heart! I have shown my horses at DSHB shows for about 14 years, I find that the younger the horse, the more are in the classes with the exception of foals. For example, my yearling filly was in very large classes this year (21+) the two year old classes were much smaller, the three year olds-even smaller classes. My theory is that the typical owner feels more comfortable handling their smaller/younger horses at a high "electric" environment, but the bigger the horse, the more we don't feel comfortable at the end of the reins when something might happen (loose horses, etc.). Your handler is exactly that, a handler. You must have the horse at the ring to hand over to them to take into the ring, it should never be expected that they would come to the stall to get them, unless this is already agreed upon prior to the show. Most of our local handlers are EXTREMELY busy and it is hard enough to work around which ring they are in at the appropriate time and how to "spell" them in between rounds.

You lost me on your comment that you don't live close enough to haul in, did you mean just for the day, therefore you need a stall?

If that is the case, I do live within 20 minutes of our most often used facility and I take my youngsters the night before and they stay until the show is over, although expensive-again, they are there to get the whole show experience-being away from home for a night or two will be something they will need to deal with as competition horses and NO MATTER WHAT, if you preferred to load up and go on the day of the show, it NEVER FAILS that is the day your horse just will not load (they know)!

I would also ask why you think this skews who is breeding what? It might just be our area (loaded with large breeders!) but most of us have known each other for years and have a good idea of who is breeding what. Now, if you are talking about trainers knowing what we breed, that again is a whole other thread. For the most part, trainers are not attending these shows (except for DAD) unless they are looking at a specific prospect that one of their clients may be interested in.

[not again]

We often go to unrated in hand shows because for us these shows are to teach the young horses that showing is boring, no big deal. In-hand year end-awards? Not a high priority for us. We look forward to riding our young stock, and don't necessarily utilize bloodlines that are pretty as babies. If fact, some of ours are downright yak-like until five, but become wonderful FEI dressage horses, winning jumpers, event horses and hunters.

[showjumpers66]

We just hosted our first show in 2007 and luckily, with the help of sponsors, we stayed in the black by about $100. Certainly isn't a money earning venture for a host! We did go first class with the trophies and ribbons and were able to do this through the generosity of the sponsors.

So here were our expenses -

Videographer & Photographer - hotel, travel, day fees
Stall rentals (charged at cost)
Programs (covered by sponsors)
Fees paid to USEF & USDF (paid by exhibitor & then paid by host)
Show licensing fees to USEF & USDF
Concession stand supplies (most were recouped)
Ribbons & trophies (covered by sponsors)
Show secretary day fee (covered by office fee)
Show secretary - hotel, travel
Drinks & snacks for everyone working the show
Judges & Technical Delegate - hotel, travel, day fees
Rentals for bleachers & PA system
Medic - day fee
Handlers & braiders (paid by exhibitors)

[lorik]

Showjumpers,
You PAY your photographer, videographer? Don't let that get out they'll all be expecting it. The first two years of my little show, we paid travel expenses and hotel for the photographer. I stopped doing it after that. I figured that they were there to make money (just like my concessions guy) and I shouldn't have to foot the bill for them. I also started getting more local people involved so they didn't have to travel as far.

Other expenses that SJ didn't have include:
Facility rental
Office supplies
Postage
Ring dragging
Trash removal
Competitors' party

You can see how the cost to produce one of these shows really mounts up

[PineTreeFarm]

Originally Posted by lorik

Showjumpers,
You PAY your photographer, videographer? Don't let that get out they'll all be expecting it. The first two years of my little show, we paid travel expenses and hotel for the photographer. I stopped doing it after that. I figured that they were there to make money (just like my concessions guy) and I shouldn't have to foot the bill for them. I also started getting more local people involved so they didn't have to travel as far.

Just my experience from H/J shows but sometimes the video, photo PAY the show a fee to be allowed to run their business on the show grounds. Treated like a vendor fee. In return they can set up a booth and take orders at the competition. The show usually provides a landscaped area for 'photo ops' for Championship awards.

To the OP, sounds like your costs aren't really entry expenses but stabling, handling stuff. Yes, that can add up quickly but isn't always under control of the show. They may be renting a facility and the stabling is managed by someone else.

[sporthorsefilly]

I have a professional handle my horse, as I can not run fast enough...but if you can, that will save you $$ per class. If you do your own braiding, which I do, that also saves $$. DSHB classes are great for youngsters to get used to showing, and all that goes on. Plus it is fun...go for it!

[Tiki]

It only takes a good video and a bit of practice to become good at braiding and save money there. The classes - even for DAD - are only $35. It is all the other costs that make up the $300 - $500 per show. I always hire a professional handler. I can train them, I can set them up, I can walk them 'til the cows come home to get them used to the bluster and walk the kinks out, I can NOT run period, never mind fast enough. I basically call it training money and if they get a ribbon, that's frosting on the cake. It is training - if it is handled properly - that will set them up for life and for a stress free and easy show career.

[WBLover]

Geez, you guys are scaring me. I'm a do-it-yourself type person and I was going to do the handling myself. My guy has already been taught to trot in hand and I was just going to practice it at home first to make sure I can do it.

Well, at least I'm doing a schooling show first to see how it goes, maybe after that I'll consider hiring a handler for the rated show.

I definitely think you can do the braiding yourself, you can always do the euro-style braids that are wider and fatter so there's not so many to do. That's what I always do. I learned from a book and then practiced it a few times before doing it for a show. Now it's gotten to the point where my friends ask me to braid their horses, too!

[gabriellemg]

Thanks for replying.

I understand management costs are high because I have been on show committees. For hauling in costs, I like to have a stall. Yet if I have to stay overnight, I must consider a hotel, someone to care for my horses at home, etc.

What I meant by skewing results of what is bred. The USDF publishes very detailed results, bloodlines of what is being show for in hand and ridden classes. What is being shown isn't necessarily what is being bred nation wide or region wide. We all know that.

Just seems odd when I was looking up USDF year ends awards that only 9 or 11 horses in the two year old gelding/colt category had qualifying scores for in hand in 2007. This was nation wide.

Just seems odd that so few can or do qualify for year end awards.

GG
Texas USA

[lorik]

Cost may very well be part of the reason that you see so few horses listed in the HOY standings. A horse needs three scores to qualify. That means at least 3 shows with 3 judges. Some people can't justify that kind of expense.

I also know of some who only want to go to 1 certain show a year regardless of the cost.

[Oldenburg Mom]

Ok ... well my boss is at the dentist, so I took a look at what the costs would be to show a weaner, yearling, and two-year old, including all USEF and USDF fees for three years, including braiders and handlers. Here are the results!!! In a spreadsheet, of course!! Now, I'll admit, I may have messed up the USEF & USDF annual fees. And I'm not sure which are strictly required... but take a look.

[MagicRoseFarm]

I spent close to 10K last year showing 6 shows in our USDF region. I took 5 to Fair Hill and DAD, the other shows 3 or 4 horses. It came out to about 2000 per horse for the season.
We showed:

1 Weanling (4 shows total over two weekends,Fair Hill, DAD)IBC when available
1 Broodmare ( 2 shows total over one weekend ,plus Fair Hill, DAD) , EC Championships
1 4 year old ( ( 4 shows total over two weekends ,plus Fair Hill, DAD)IBC when available EC Championships
1 stallion (2 shows total over one weekend ,plus Fair Hill, DAD)open, under saddle classes, IBC when available, EC Championships
1 yearling (Fair Hill , DAD) IBC both shows
1 2 yo (2 shows total over one weekend )

This included all the stabling, entry and office fees, food. Also I had extra help but it was worth every penny, and we stayed in a hotel only one weekend, and mostly we camped out to save the money. I also trained my help at home to help with the handling to save money( they did wonderful- even in the championship classes), ( I used Pros at DAD), and we did the braiding.

[sporthorsefilly]

I did two back to back shows for a total of 4 shows, this year. Total: 18 classes... So $900 in handler fees :0) Then add in the entries of total 18 classes at $35 plus grounds fee; office fee; etc

Thank God I can braid myself... I did have a blast

[showjumpers66]

This is because they need to attend 3 shows. We showed 5 in two shows, but were not able to attend a third show so none of ours are listed in the year end awards.

Originally Posted by gabriellemg

Thanks for replying.
Just seems odd when I was looking up USDF year ends awards that only 9 or 11 horses in the two year old gelding/colt category had qualifying scores for in hand in 2007. This was nation wide.

Just seems odd that so few can or do qualify for year end awards.

GG
Texas USA

[showjumpers66]

I spoke with about 20 photographers and none of them would consider coming with out expenses paid plus a day fee. They say that no one buys photos and they can not sell enough photos to make it worth their time. I did find a photographer would said that they needed to make $xxxx for the weekend and if I could guarantee that plus expenses, then they would come. The photographer did sell enough photos to cover the day fee, so we were just out the cost of airfare as we had them stay on the farm. It would be nice if we had local options to choose from.

We were unable to find anyone to set up a concessions stand either, so did one with volunteers. It is tough guessing how much food/drinks to purchase as many of the items are perishable.

Originally Posted by lorik

Showjumpers,
You PAY your photographer, videographer? Don't let that get out they'll all be expecting it. The first two years of my little show, we paid travel expenses and hotel for the photographer. I stopped doing it after that. I figured that they were there to make money (just like my concessions guy) and I shouldn't have to foot the bill for them. I also started getting more local people involved so they didn't have to travel as far.

[Oldenburg Mom]

That's amazing, sj66. I had two different photographers lined up for Lori's show. The one I finally chose arrived with his own trailer ...just out of curiosity, how many entries did you have?

[lorik]

Showjumpers66,

Do you have any idea how many photos your photographer sold? While I realize that photographers must make a living, if they weren't taking pictures at your show, what would they be doing?

As OMOM intimated, maybe the size of the show is an issue. We get roughly 100 entries (includes Get of Sire and Produce of Dam). That should be enough for someone to make a few bucks taking pictures.

That being said, my company was hired to do a small start up show who didn't even have a photographer. Their entries were very low, and they didn't have a photographer, but other amenities at that show will have people coming back, and the show will grow.

[Fairview Horse Center]

Just an idea for those with small shows, some amateur photographers are VERY good. You may ask around for one of those to do your show. With digital cameras, they can take a lot of photos, and some are bound to come out nice.

[Hillside H Ranch]

Originally Posted by WBLover

Geez, you guys are scaring me. I'm a do-it-yourself type person and I was going to do the handling myself. My guy has already been taught to trot in hand and I was just going to practice it at home first to make sure I can do it.

Well, at least I'm doing a schooling show first to see how it goes, maybe after that I'll consider hiring a handler for the rated show.

I definitely think you can do the braiding yourself, you can always do the euro-style braids that are wider and fatter so there's not so many to do. That's what I always do. I learned from a book and then practiced it a few times before doing it for a show. Now it's gotten to the point where my friends ask me to braid their horses, too!

Don't be scared! I'm in the minority, but I do handle my own horses (and do my own braiding). It doesn't seem to have hurt my placings, either. But, I don't do DAD, as I'm in Missouri and I haven't been able to justify that trip. If I were going to do a show of that level I would probably hire a professional. That being said, you do have to be able to RUN. I'm kind of neurotic, but I do run sprints at home in preparation for showing my horses in hand LOL!

BTW, I went to the show that SJ66 put on and it was fantastic; I don't mind paying the fees for a show that is so well organized and had awesome awards.