Chrome or no chrome

[Madeline]

I know it's anathema to the color genetics folk, but the more threads like this that I see, the more I think that the Jockey Club has it right: "Dark bay or brown" is a registerable color. So is "grey or roan".
I have 3 brownish ones and a greyish one who rolls in the mud so he can look brownish like his buddies.

[JB]

Originally Posted by onelanerode

The bay/brown discussion makes me laugh. I have a bay/brown Appendix mare. She's out of a bay mare by a chestnut stallion, and she's registered bay.

I suspect she's bay, but she's another one, like my mare, like another posted here, where a test would be the only way to know for sure.

Originally Posted by RugBug

No kidding. Gotta say that the way some people feel about the term "chrome" is the same way I feel about "sabino" and "rabicano" and "sooty", etc. .

Except that those other terms are MUCH more descriptive, and in some cases are also genetically identified, with fairly reliable phenotypically identified presentations It's the same thing as using "overo" as a catch-all term - it's generic, and doesn't tell you anything other than there is white on the horse

It's no different than incorrectly calling a liver chestnut horse "brown" - he's not, even if his color is, by the Crayon book, "brown".

[JB]

Originally Posted by Madeline

I know it's anathema to the color genetics folk, but the more threads like this that I see, the more I think that the Jockey Club has it right: "Dark bay or brown" is a registerable color. So is "grey or roan".

I fully understand folks not caring about the genetics and just calling it how they see it. "dark bay or brown" is entirely accurate from their point of view, as it accurately describes the horse's color.

Roan, however, doesn't exist in the TB, so that is just silly to have it listed there. And to list a horse as "gray" when he's a Dominant White horse like Puchilinqui is just altogether wrong since he's not gray, can't sire gray horses. The JC called, for eons, all palomino horses "chestnut". Buckskins were bay. At some point it does need to be cleaned up and call the horse what he is

[Madeline]

Originally Posted by JB

At some point it does need to be cleaned up and call the horse what he is

Why? TB's are a performance breed, not a color breed.

[JB]

Because at some point it's just WRONG. The JC is just so far behind the times and doesn't even entertain any reason to change. Continuing to do it "like it's always been done" isn't a good excuse, but it's what they do. Why do they still only allow AI? Because that's what they've always done. Thankfully they DO now recognize palomino as a color, but it took a European breeder and their JC to tell our JC how to do things correctly and still not be that big of a deal.

Palomino is not chestnut, buckskin is not bay. Looking at a palomino, and seeing chestnut on his papers, helps in identification how?

[Thanatos]

Originally Posted by S1969

Even here she looks more brown than black.

Brown or Black?

Hmm... maybe I'll have to do the test just so I don't feel like I'm neglecting her when she gets so bleached out in the summer!

I'd call her seal brown. She's cute!

[Madeline]

Originally Posted by JB

Because at some point it's just WRONG. The JC is just so far behind the times and doesn't even entertain any reason to change. Continuing to do it "like it's always been done" isn't a good excuse, but it's what they do. Why do they still only allow AI?

Actually, I don't believe they do allow AI unless the mare and stallion are in the same room. With the contraction of the TB gene pool, I think that that is a good thing. Imagine if Storm Cat or Mr. Prospector was able to sire 400 per year... ( or even worse, Puchilingui)...

Hunter land is fashion and fad driven, but so is racing land. But there, the fashion is bloodlines.

[DandyMatiz]

I don't think the JC allows AI at all.. I thought it was LC only, even if in the same room. And don't they have to be video'd/photographed. I remember hearing that once.

JB, I totally agree with you. Bay/brown doesn't bother me as much... but Grey/Roan drives me insane. And calling any horse with Rabicano markings roan drives me equally batty. A horse's color is a very important indentifying tool for them, so it's good, imo, to be as accurate as possible. (and don't get me started on sorrel/chesnut) lol.

[DMK]

Originally Posted by JB

Your bright chestnut with "black" in his mane/tail is very common from sooty affecting the red tones. It can really confuse people and think they are bay

No that one is easy - no black legs, ergo NOT a bay (but the reallybrightred+sooting+roaning is a weird mix of colors for a TB, and just more fodder for all my friends who insist a QH slipped in with his mom...)

I will say that the color genetics threads did help me identify that the bay in the profile is a "primitive" bay because he really has more black "anklets" than full black socks - lots of brown on the cannons. I used to just tell people he only got a D (barely passing) the "bay test" Now I know its just that he hasn't fully evolved. <BEG>

ETA - I think JB meant to type "still NOT allow AI" cuz I know that she knows they don't allow anything but live cover. Damned heat fries the brain cell to finger connections.

[JB]

DMK, yes, SO sorry, that was supposed to be NOT allow AI! It's not even supposed to be "unless you're in the same room". No. AI. Period. I KNOW it's done though - mare and stallion in the same room, semen goes from stallion to container straight into mare, for the safety of everyone involved. But that's "behind closed doors" and is still essentially live cover as far as everyone is concerned.

Damned heat is right. Heat index 104* today - blah.

DMK, the "primitive" bay is really called Wild Bay, but yes, same concept LOL So, you could call him your Wild Child

[Peggy]

Here is the promised scanned photo of Jive (the standing bay horse in Post 88 (

Originally Posted by Peggy

Star's papers say dunkelbraun which I think translates to dark brown. Sometimes I call him bay, sometimes brown (first photo).

Cool and Jive (bay horse in second photo) were a red bay. The photo's kind of dark, but his head looks like the right color. Note that my mom had just handed me her horse, the chestnut, before the photo was snapped and I am NOT responsible for the stirrups not being run up.

)

Again I apologize for the infraction, this time of holding a small helmet-less child with inappropriate footwear on a horse. It was a different time--said child just finished his first year of college. As far as Jive is concerned, the larger infraction is that he's tacked up as a dressage horse.

Interestingly, his black leg points didn't go up much past the lower part of his cannons.

As a side note, I am rather pleased with the new scanner/printer/copier, especially as this was scanned wirelessly.

[Foxtrot's]

Our big bald faced horse was often ridiculed for his darling face. However, once a judge had seen him once and liked him enough to pin him, he could be spotted for the rest of the show and his placings just got better. (The reverse is true if the judge had not liked him, he would remember him, too.)

I can't see a bald faced horse and not love it.

This boy was such a gem, that, in my circles, if one is looking for such a rare horse, we describe them looking for a Cody-horse.

[alliekat]

Originally Posted by JB

It's no different than incorrectly calling a liver chestnut horse "brown" - he's not, even if his color is, by the Crayon book, "brown".

I love my Liver chestnut Broodmare. I think it is on of my favorites!!! You wont hear me complaining that she has "chrome". I think it is striking with the contrast. Her filly from this year that we are keeping for my daughters next prospect is shedding out dark. She is marked almost identical to her mom.

[Equilibrium]

Originally Posted by JB

I fully understand folks not caring about the genetics and just calling it how they see it. "dark bay or brown" is entirely accurate from their point of view, as it accurately describes the horse's color.

Roan, however, doesn't exist in the TB, so that is just silly to have it listed there. And to list a horse as "gray" when he's a Dominant White horse like Puchilinqui is just altogether wrong since he's not gray, can't sire gray horses. The JC called, for eons, all palomino horses "chestnut". Buckskins were bay. At some point it does need to be cleaned up and call the horse what he is

I'm sorry, I really can't stand gray horses being called roan. It really is a pet peeve of mine.

I have a heavy bay rabicano TB yearling going to the sales in September. She is flecked heavy everywhere except her head and legs and she also has 2 belly spots connected by a stripe. Everyone who sees her says she is roan or "she will end up gray." That really gets me considering with no gray parents it's not going to happen. That's when I have to launch into my speil about the difference between roan and gray and that TB's do not have the roan gene.

She was born a lovely solid bay with a white blaze and we had no clue that she would turn out the color she is. When she first started shedding out I called the reg office to make sure the DNA tests were indeed correct.

Terri

[JB]

Terri, any pics of her? I would LOVE to see such a heavy rabicano! I've seen several, but it's just not all that common to see SO much white

alliekat - LOVE your girl!!!

[Equilibrium]

Originally Posted by JB

Terri, any pics of her? I would LOVE to see such a heavy rabicano! I've seen several, but it's just not all that common to see SO much white

alliekat - LOVE your girl!!!

JB,

She comes in Sunday night to sales prep. Taking any pictures of her right now would be unfair as she's been out on grass all summer growing and so she has a scraggly mane and tail! She's in great health but just let me get her cleaned up first! I really am fet up with her being called roan though! But it is indeed a strange color as I have seen rabicano's that are nearly white on their flanks and torso, but yet with other parts of their bodies minimal.. This girl is flecked everywhere bar head and legs. She has more flecking to her than my friends actual bay roan connemara.

Terri

[JB]

*pout* fine, I'll wait

Actually, since you say (again, I didn't pick up before) that there is ticking everywhere, not just the flank/barrel, it's more than likely Sabino picking up where Rabicano left off

Here's a very heavily ticked Rabicano Arab - flank/barrel area
Here's another extreme Rabicano Arab
Here's a Rab TB

[Equilibrium]

Yeah, it would have to be the sabino picking up what with those weird belly spots and stripe on her belly. She has a blaze and just a little white on one fetlock.

I must add in a PSA about her tail. She apparently is allergic to cribox. I only found this out after putting it in her tail to deter a very annoying tail chewer. We noticed it looked like she had some twigs in her tail one evening so we went to wash it. Next thing I know tail was coming out in my hand - egads! We had to scrub it up and treat it, but like it fell away from the bone. Good news is what came out is growing back in earnest but it will be a couple of years before she has a good tail. I may even have to add some tail hair in for the sale. I hate when I accidently ugly my horses!

Terri

[doublesstable]

I'm bringing this thread back because color was discussed (and I took a cute picture today)

It makes some sense and is interesting to me. I think now I dont' have two bays, I have a bay and a brown.

Here is my (what I think is a brown):

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...ids6-10013.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...ids6-10014.jpg

He's the 18 hand one.... lol

[ride29]

LOVE me some chrome!