What the heck? H/J vs dressage....

[see u at x]

Originally Posted by MyGiantPony

Please don't paint the entire hunter world with that idiot's paintbrush.

Most of us understand the value of good dressage basics, even if we don't need the skills to move up the levels.

Thank you. I took dressage lessons before I ever took hunter lessons and one of the things drilled into me is that dressage is good for EVERY discipline. And for as awful as some of the hunter riders are that I've run into (I know of one trainer who rides horses in draw reins EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. and only takes them off for horse shows ), from some of the comments recently on this forum, I'd rather deal with a lot of the hunter people than some of people who've posted the downright rude, insulting, patronizing, demeaning, and know-it-all comments that I've read here.

On topic, the woman sounds like an idiot. No wonder she hasn't found a horse, and frankly, I'd be surprised if there was an owner out there who wanted to sell her a horse based upon her crappy, insulting, and combative attitude.

[Timex]

What mygiantpony said. Lord knows, I've met my fair share of nasty, know-it-all dressage riders too. Heck, look at some of the 'conversations' that go on here. She is obviously a kook!

[partlycloudy]

I've had a woman trying to get me to take her horse in to sell on consignment. I'm not really interested in taking her, (too small, too old and way over priced) and I was trying to politely extract myself from her phone call, when she starts dissing dressage riders. Excuse me? why are you trying to get a dressage barn to take your horse then???
Some people are just absolute dolts.

[FlyingHorse2]

Your account of this annoying phone call is probably one that a few sellers have heard. I agree with esdressage that it could have been a prelude to negotiating down the price. Glad you didn't 'buy' into it!

[slc2]

So....when someone is being an a**hole, you stay on the line and listen to them being an a**hole?

Doesn't sound like a very effective use of your time.

[dressappy]

I use to ride hunters in high school and college before switching to dressage past year. I have to say even when I rode hunters I hated hunter riders. lol. My hunter trainers encouraged us to branch out in dressage. When I went to my first dressage show I thought dressage riders would be all stuck up and snooty, but I was totally surprised at how easy going most dressage folks are.

The fact that she saying your horse is dreadful and still wants to look at it, tells me she's insane. Or she's trying to coerce you into dropping your price so she can nab him for a good price.

[danceronice]

Wow. While I do have issues with some aspects of top-level modern dressage (I AM NOT STARTING NOR WILL I ENGAGE IN AN RK DEBATE SO NO ONE BOTHER), I've also got issues with certain hunter styles and training methods. And I wasn't aware that back when I had my TB who went hunt seat I was destroying the very foundations of the universe by also doing training-level with him.

I also wasn't aware it was a great negotiating practice, even in a bad market, to call the seller and then trash the item you want to purchase. Was I supposed to go into each house I looked at and rip the owner's decorating sceme and say what a piece of crap it all was and how much work I was going to have to do and then ask where to send the offer? I'd have hung up on this nutter halfway into the call.

[slc2]

Now there's some good advice.

Or you can do what a friend of mine does, just start shouting, 'That's GRAAAAAAAYT!' at intervals during the conversation.

[Coppers mom]

Some people are just crazy.

We had one guy looking at an event mare who was packing kids around in the jumpers. We sent him a video of her doing a course set at 4'6", and he actually had the nerve to babble on about how we were selling her because she didn't have the quality we were looking for, he didn't know if she'd have the scope to go Advanced eventing (nevermind that she was jumping 6" over anything she'd ever see in eventing), etc etc. He just kept saying "Oh, so she doesn't have the quality to event", "she doesn't have the scope, right?" and on and on. It's like someone seeing an I1 horse and saying "oh, he probably can't go past 3rd, can he?". It was ridiculous, and after a few more over the top rude questions, he asked for another video, which he never got.

Another person came out, and hated every single thing about the horse. He could half pass, shoulder/haunches in/out, great simple changes, everything, but she would have needed to do "a lot of retraining". She didn't like the bridle he was wearing, the bit he used, that he needed a wither pad, or that we put boots on him (because horses are expensive to fix, you know). As soon as she pulled out and insisted using the 500 year old saddle (it was literally falling apart, there were only a few stitches holding it together. I was appalled) that clearly didn't fit him, I put the block on it.

Another woman came out, and it was the weirdest thing. The horse went around beautifully for my trainer, and she just loved him. When she got on though, she held the reins almost on the buckle, opened her hands wide, pulled back, wiggled the bit around and got him way too deep and overbent, scooted around on a 5 meter circle kicking like she was in pony club the whole time, and declared "Well, he feels honest with his hind end but he's not". Whaaat?

We sell horses on a regular basis, so we get our fair share of whackadoos. Be glad you've only met one so far!

[4xhoof]

That person sounds like they were just trying to stir up trouble and to let you ( or anyone that would listen) that they are anti-dressage. What these type of people end up doing is just proving they are idiots.

I ride hunter, jumper, and dressage. Just started eventing and think I have found a new love! Dressage is involved in all warm ups for my hunter and jumper. I prefer jumpers over hunters but I like hunters since there is more opportunties to show. I do not show dressage since due to $$ have to pick my events but I think dressage is neccessary for all training. Makes me crazy when I hear other disciplines say how terrible it is. Dressage is a fundamental for all horses IMO.

[Thoroughbred1201]

Um . . . Wow. On so many levels. First off, I'm shocked by the caller to the original poster. Rudeness is rudeness, where ever it is found. Good for you for taking your horse off the market to that buyer.

Secondly, I actually left the dressage world for the Hunters because of having to listen to a lot of the comments by the responders to the OP on this thread.

A good hunter is produced with dressage principles. Period. And like dressage, there are the problem trainers who take short cuts. But a nice hunters is truly the ultimate in self-carriage. Frankly, I call it applied dressage, because it is for a reason, not just for perfection. But frankly, to develop a horse to jump athletically, stylish, and in order to be able to put him where you need to at the base, he's better be broke correctly on the flat!

But the responses I've put up with from dressage riders has been appalling. I had one who told me to my face that she was shocked that my horse 'actually went on the bit'. But my favorite, was the dressage rider who turned her nose up at me while I was hacking my horse, only to have the well known clinician she was riding with point out my thoroughbred hunter as the exact example of what he was looking for: forward, light to the hand, supple and relaxed.

So please, just remember that there are bad apples in every disipline (no more so than at the top levels!), and if you begin to turn your nose up at a disipline, you'd better look to yourself first.

[Catalina]

That buyer sounds exactly like one that has been pestering my trainer (heck, it might be the same one- does her first name start with a D?). This woman has been calling my trainer all week asking about two of the horses she has for sale- one eventer and one jumper prospect that has done some local stuff. The buyer has told my trainer the horses were overpriced, too old, too young, too big, too small, didn't have enough show experience, she didn't want something that had evented because it made the horse crazy, etc. And when can she come see them?
According to the buyer, she has been looking for a year and has seen over 100 horses and maybe only 10 were worth it (of course, she didn't buy any of them). My trainer, porbably being far nicer then she should have been, has the woman coming out this morning to see the horses- I am looking forward to the phone call from her after the buyer leaves, it should be entertaining .

[Sandy M]

Originally Posted by see u at x

And for as awful as some of the hunter riders are that I've run into (I know of one trainer who rides horses in draw reins EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. and only takes them off for horse shows )

This was many years ago, but I once took my event horse to an H/J show to get some "stadium" fences at 3'6" (Preliminary) a few weeks prior to an event. There was only one 3'6" - 3'9" jumper class, so I put him in a few 3'6"/3'9" hunter classes (Ammy Owner, 2nd Year Green) just to get more fences. While I was trotting around the warm-up, one gal trotted up next to me and asked me "How in the world do you get and keep his head down without a martingale and/or drawreins?" EEk! indeed. I just said, "dressage," and cantered off.

[winfieldfarm]

HAhahahahahaha! Stupid should hurt, shouldn't it?

I for when would have so stayed on the phone and totally f'ed with her. I enjoy a good laugh, why stop the chuckles when it's so EASY!!

[AnotherRound]

Winfield, I like that, can I use that for a signature? "Stupid should hurt, shouldn't it?"

I have to say, I think she was trolling you, I think she actually just wanted to rag to a dressage person about the horse. It doesn't make sense that she should really want your horse, with that attitude, and certainly wasn't trying to get the horse, talking to the owner like that. I think she just wanted to sound off and ifyou listened, she got your attention and what she was after.

She's a messed up individual, and I know you've let it go. Thanks for sharing, there sure are some whackadoos out there. Horses seem to attract them!