Eventing prospect, what do you think?

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Personally....if he is a roarer...I would be looking elsewhere unless he really knocked my socks off in person. It could be that he is a roarer and that is WHY he is cheap. Because roaring is a problem even from a show horse and without the surgery...his uses are limited. But you need a vet's advice.

As for the free jumping...I loved his attitude. But don't be too impressed with the size of the fence. Just because they can free jump well doesn't mean they will jump as well with a rider on their back. So while I do like to see free schooling to get a sense about a horse....that isn't how I judge their scope or ability to jump as a competition horse.

ETA: Based on the video...I wouldn't rule him out and would go look at him. If he is 5K because his roaring is bad (otherwise he WOULD be more expensive)...then I'd want a vet's advice on him (and I'd want a PPE regardless....the purchase price is the least expensive part of owning a horse). As Jlee said...your can possibly do a fairly inexpensive procedure to fix the roaring....but you need a vet's advice on that and the cost and risk need to be factored into your purchase.

[Meredith Clark]

Originally Posted by badawg

Hey...you know who I am! Rowan's mom! Anyway, look. Not impressed by this horse at all. There is so much better out here for less than this and I think that M. would agree. The challenge with you is finding something tall enough.

Wait who's Rowan?

What is the challenge with height? This isn't hunters and people show ponies all the time. I def. don't think the OP should buy this horse because he's tall

[Jleegriffith]

We are only getting a snapshot of this horse with this video. I don't think his form is that bad but my opinion is based on the thinking that we are seeing an unfit horse in the middle of winter. Sure it could be much worse with a rider up or he would continue to jump everything with enough height that a bit of a drapey front end wouldn't matter. The OP doesn't have a lot of money to spend and needs a big horse. If you are going to buy a big sound tb off the track you are looking at 1-2yrs to get it to the level that this horse currently is. I love my ottb's but we all know buying straight from the track is a gamble. That doesn't always matter but when it comes to finances and being in pony club it would be something I would consider. Sounds like she needs something that is guaranteed to do the job intended. It is quite possible he truly does have the record they say he does. A throat surgery is something that is relatively cheap to do and if the vet thinks he has a good chance of fixing the issue the horse should recover quickly and be ready to go to work before spring.

OP- if you get another video please share. I would be interested in seeing what he looks like now. I have many horses come in that started out looking like this and a year later you wouldn't even recognize them.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[quote=Jleegriffith;4480933]We are only getting a snapshot of this horse with this video. I don't think his form is that bad but my opinion is based on the thinking that we are seeing an unfit horse in the middle of winter. Sure it could be much worse with a rider up or he would continue to jump everything with enough height that a bit of a drapey front end wouldn't matter. [quote]


Edited my response to be more clear Jlee. My point wasn't to rule him out or in. I just think some people put too much weight on the free jump...good or bad. I don't. I use it just to see their attitude. He seems brave and willing...good traits. But don't count the size of the jump as an indication that he will be an Advanced horse or even that he is a good or bad jumper. With a rider on board...his whole jump could be different....and as you said...fit and in work...he is going to look a lot different.

To me...the big risk with this guy is his roaring. The OP should go look at him and try him. If she likes him...get a good PPE and scope him. It isn't a ton to fix roaring...if it is fixable...but it does cost $$$ and has some risk so that needs to be factored into his price. It may also be leverage to get his price lowered....unless it is already lowered because he has an issue (which is what I just suspect).

[Meredith Clark]

Originally Posted by Jleegriffith

The OP doesn't have a lot of money to spend and needs a big horse. .

Neville Bardos is 16.1 and i'm sure Boyd Martin is taller than the OP. I don't see why height is really an issue.

There are tons of 15'3 to 16'2 horses out there that are going in the Upper Levels, not to mention some amazing ponies and honies!

I told Rowan's mom via PM that although I get the height issue (after horse shopping with my 5'10ish sister) that a rider doesn't want to look silly on a short horse.. if you really want an upper level horse it shouldn't matter (as long as the horse can preform)

[JER]

I agree with Jleegriffith on this one.

If he's doing what they say he's doing -- and you should get some video/documented evidence of this -- he's worth looking at.

I thought the horse's free jumping was fine. The 'dropping his knees' comments are irrelevant because he was clearing the fence will with his shoulder and jumping economically. This is a good thing in an eventer -- an extravagant, knee-snapping jump doesn't mean much outside the young horse auction.

'Roaring' can mean all kinds of things. You'd need to get the specifics. I hunted/evented a horse with an airway 'issue' for many years. His trachea tightens when he starts to work but then it relaxes and he's fine. (My PPE vet galloped him on a track to identify the issue.) He competed to Prelim till age 19 and retired due to a skin condition. If I posted a photo of him here asking for feedback on his conformation, I'd be laughed off the board. But he's quite sound and still jumping at 25/26.

I had another horse who competed at P for years without incident. He's a 17+hh TB will all kinds of structural funkiness. But he gets around just fine and is lovely in dressage. You'd never guess by looking at him and no vet in the world would recommend buying him. But he's very functional and that's what really matters if you want to get out and ride.

However, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that he's an Advanced prospect. More like Prelim -- after that the demands rule out a lot of horses.

[Jleegriffith]

Meredith- you will never have to convince me that people don't need that big of a horse but many people are so set in their ways you will never change their minds in regards to height. Just try to sell that 15.2 h-15.3 h that is way more talented than the 16.2 h horse in your barn and let me know what you discover about why height matters in selling horses.

I had someone shopping recently who told me they were looking for anything under 16 h. I was shocked..it almost never happens no matter how tall the person is.

I think professionals are often a lot more open minded on height but then again those pro's who are buying for potential resale down the road still need to keep in mind what the general market supports.

[Bobthehorse]

Originally Posted by Jagged

I'm not a huge fan of his form over fences. He really seems to drop his knees. And you don't think its a bit soon to be claiming him as an advanced prospect?

This. Its too son to be calling the horse an advanced prospect, and too soon for the rider to be claiming she has that kind of talent as well. The reality is, no one really knows how far a horse or rider will go until they get there.

[badawg]

FWIW, I don't believe the OP ever claimed that she had the *talent* to go to the UL, just the drive and determination. Which, (although I've never been there either) I can tell you, the girl is seriously committed. I can't speak to the Upper Levels, but she would certainly give it her all if someone gave her the chance.

[TB or not TB?]

Originally Posted by JER

I agree with Jleegriffith on this one.

If he's doing what they say he's doing -- and you should get some video/documented evidence of this -- he's worth looking at.

I thought the horse's free jumping was fine. The 'dropping his knees' comments are irrelevant because he was clearing the fence will with his shoulder and jumping economically. This is a good thing in an eventer -- an extravagant, knee-snapping jump doesn't mean much outside the young horse auction.

'Roaring' can mean all kinds of things. You'd need to get the specifics. I hunted/evented a horse with an airway 'issue' for many years. His trachea tightens when he starts to work but then it relaxes and he's fine. (My PPE vet galloped him on a track to identify the issue.) He competed to Prelim till age 19 and retired due to a skin condition. If I posted a photo of him here asking for feedback on his conformation, I'd be laughed off the board. But he's quite sound and still jumping at 25/26.

I had another horse who competed at P for years without incident. He's a 17+hh TB will all kinds of structural funkiness. But he gets around just fine and is lovely in dressage. You'd never guess by looking at him and no vet in the world would recommend buying him. But he's very functional and that's what really matters if you want to get out and ride.

However, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that he's an Advanced prospect. More like Prelim -- after that the demands rule out a lot of horses.

If it were an adult or person with means to own multiple horses, I probably would be more encouraging. Of anyone, I am totally all about the underdog wonderhorse! However, given the OP's age and circumstance, I would want for her the very best chance to succeed, which to me means decent conformation and medical history for the required job. For folks with their own farm, a bargain or a longshot is a chance maybe worth taking, but I've known too many young folks for whom it doesn't work out. Since the OP has already lost one horse tragically, I would like to see her with something that can really help her succeed. Maybe see a little too much of myself there but what can you do?!

FWIW OP, I usually refrain from judging free jumping other than in the manner others have said - horse's willingness and generosity and attitude. Form and scope will change with a rider. What I was looking at was the way the horse was put together - he was indeed jumping with his shoulder because of the way he is put together. That will limit his ability with a rider. If you look how his back ties in to his loins, it's quite weak coupling with a high stifle. This is true no matter if he was dappled and show ready or straight OTT. I wouldn't pass him by as a long shot, especially not when he seems like a genuine guy, but I couldn't give my recommendation based on what is there, for the OP's goals. Does that make sense y'all?

[mybeau]

I don't post on here alot, but I wanted to share my experiences with a horse that I leased that "roared". I admire your determination, OP, and it will pay off-the right horse is out there!

Please think very hard about purchasing a horse that has this issue. Its actually considered an unsoundness, which is why a horse that shows in the hunters can be eliminated for this. I know this is meant to be an eventing prospect, so all the more reason to stop considering this horse. When a horse roars, its breathing has been obstructed-and I would imagine that eventing and PCing at high levels, you'd want a something that can be athletic and breath well.

And, if you don't have alot of money to spend, you WILL be spending a lot of money to fix this issue, and its not guaranteed 100% to be a permanent fix. It was about a $2000 surgery. Anyways, after learning all of these things, I decided to not buy the horse I leased, even though I was heart broken. It was a great decision in the long run, and probably saved me thousands of dollars and tears...

I think you can find something nicer and more sound for under 5K-don't eliminate OTTB, just be sure to get a full PPE so you are know what you are getting-inside and out. Good luck to you-eyes on the prize, and stay positive!!

[scubed]

Don't know if it is ok to post links. I am not in any way associated with any of these, but even on just a very quick look at dreamhorse, it seemed there were other available horses for less money and w/o concerns:

http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse...2&share_this=Y

http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse...1&share_this=Y

I'm sure a serious look could turn up many more, especially at this time

[FoxChaser]

How funny! The second Dreamhorse link scubed posted is the horse in question

[ThirdCharm]

He's listed on their site at $8K negotiable. They may not want to come down more. Though maybe they could buy some SPELLING LESSONS with the money!! (Not to be a snob, but eight errors in one ad?? If you are not a native english speaker, get one of your students to proofread!)

I would not go $5K for a horse that has never been XC even if he is the sweetest horse ever (and he appears to be very kind and intelligent, as he is not getting ANY help whatsoever from his handler, not even a properly set up chute). 17.3 is a big horse, a lot of horse to keep sound. Wind/conditioning becomes even more important with a big horse. Tieback surgery has complications attached. I'd much rather take a swing with an OTTB for a third of the money....

Jennifer

[scubed]

FC, okay, that is funny. And interesting that there is no mention of the roaring in the ad.

[Couture TB]

Did you notice when you click on 'other horses by this seller' they have two ponies priced higher then him? And they also include photos, one has done PC and eventing.

I would think if they had other horses they were doing XC with they would have him doing it also?

[Eddy's Mom]

Be very, very careful buying something from that farm.....

[Meredith Clark]

Originally Posted by Jleegriffith

Meredith- you will never have to convince me that people don't need that big of a horse but many people are so set in their ways you will never change their minds in regards to height. Just try to sell that 15.2 h-15.3 h that is way more talented than the 16.2 h horse in your barn and let me know what you discover about why height matters in selling horses.

Gosh if I knew 16.2 horses were so easy to get rid of Jay would have been gone a long time ago (just kidding!)

I think that's where our perspective is different. I haven't sold a horse in 4 years and the horse's i've re-homed have had issues beyond height!

I've been lucky enough to be in the buyer seat most of the time and especially in this economy is the best place to be!

Originally Posted by Jleegriffith

I had someone shopping recently who told me they were looking for anything under 16 h. I was shocked..it almost never happens no matter how tall the person is.

.

I think I asked you for under 16hand OTTBs a while ago when I wasn't sure if I was keeping Juice I always had larger horses until I accidentally got a short one and I've been stuck on them ever since!

anyway.. where did people find the farm information? my internet sloothing isn't as good as the rest of you!

[eventingismylife]

The reason I need a horse over 16hh is because my legs are so long, even riding a 15.2hh this summer riding xc it looked like I was doing dressage. haha. I just wanted some opinions on his roaring and what you thought about him in general. I got kind of a bad feeling when I looked at the other horses by the seller.
The pictures I gave you guys to see are from an old ad, the people that are selling him bought him only a month ago from Pandemonium Farm- for 8k.
If any one knows of a horse for sale (northwestern usa), or an OTTB please let me know! Thanks!

[Meredith Clark]

I did a dream horse search but it's hard because of where you live (tons of nice ranch horses though!)

this guy is cute but young :
http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse...6&share_this=Y

Otherwise you could always plan a trip to one of the coasts. Line up a bunch of horses so it's worth the trip and find something you like and have it shipped.

Even if it's just going to the racetrack for a day you would prolly spend less in travel and shipping costs than buying a 5k horse near you.