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  1. #1
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    Lightbulb The ANTI-Anti-anti-slaughter activist thread... (case example)

    The recent discussion about slaughter here, got me thinking about what I'm seeing recently. I am on the Board of Directors of a nonprofit rescue, and I'll also volunteer to help out other Rescues when I can. Sorry this post is a little long.

    Just yesterday our Rescue picked up a pair of Belgians out of a kill-pen, literally a day or so from being shipped one-way to the final feedlot and then slaughter. These horses are in good health, not ancient. They're sane, polite, and trained to ride & drive.

    Photo

    Their "crime" was that their owner wanted a bigger team of horses to do logging. So he traded him in at this big New York dealer's yard who coincidentally is also a big-time slaughterhouse supplier. Had the broker not had the easy out of slaughter, he would've either (1) forced the seller to be more responsible and not taken the trade-in so easily or (2) been required to find a home himself. In other words, the broker wouldn't isn't going to shoot or starve the incoming horses; selling horses is his livelihood.

    Some might argue "without slaughter horses would starve in the field" but this is an unproven, emotional angle. In CA when it was banned, neglect did not go up AND horse theft dropped significantly. In Maryland it is still legal and in the past month or so there were three big neglect cases (over 70 horses, a dozen or so, and 19 horses) so bad Animal Control is seizing horses. That doesn't account for all the ones I'm not aware of. Also right now there's a farm 5 miles from me that's going into foreclosure and the owner walked away -- leaving 4 horses behind with nobody to feed them. She knows slaughter exists. These kind of people just don't care.

    Our society makes it so easy for people to trade-in horses, like a car dealer. This Ford truck isn't to my liking anymore, so can I trade it in for a Chevy? Except for horses, we have a system that pays you more to junk the Ford for parts than try to resell that almost-new Ford to someone else. In some ways, Americans take better care of their cars then they do their horses.

    These above-mentioned horses are not unwanted. Sponsors paid $1,100 to buy this pair out of the feedlot (broker said it was his meat price). If slaughter was illegal, it wouldn't have cost nearly as much to gain these guys their freedom. Or if it was illegal, the original owner wouldn't have gotten so much for his trade-in and he might've tried to find a home for them himself instead of doing a quick drop-off.

    They are not useless: I have a waiting list of people wanting to see these guys, as soon as quarantine is over. These boys load & trailer nice, lead, stand, tie, stay out of personal space, come when called, and don't have any vices I can find. I load the pair of them all by myself in about 5 minutes onto a 2-horse bumper pull. These are NICE horses.

    And had the sponsors not gotten the tip about this pair, they would've been on a one-way trip to the main feedlot. The horses would've vanished off all radar when it comes to minimum care standards, enforcing cruelty laws, or requiring them even the least bit of vet care. If they'd gotten hurt in transit, nobody wouldn't noticed or cared. Kicked by another in the truck and leg fractured? Irrelevant. The trip from my region is at least 1,000 miles to either TX or IL kill plants: no spacious truck, no unloading to rest, no medical care, no vet care, no separating really aggressive ones out, etc. And then they can sit on the USDA feedlot for days or weeks.

    The public has begged, pleaded, argued, and demanded the horse slaughter system (from drop-off at auction/broker to day of the kill) be changed. Nothing does change, and the industry is adamant about keeping the status quo. Some in the general public think there are laws in place to protect the animals but the only one who can touch "meat" horses is the USDA. However, all the USDA enforces is food safety and protecting the price of the final product.

    How many more years of this broken system do we need to endure before we see significant changes?

    Isn't there some better balance between "right to use" a horse and unnecessary cruelty?

    Thanks for hearing me out.



  2. #2

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    I'm not sure I see your point? Someone sold their livestock to someone else. That person sold them again if I understand you right. It happens everyday accross the country in the livestock industry with many differant species of healthy livestock. Many animals are then used as food. Not exactly anything new.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.


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  3. #3
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    Wow...what nice looking horses. I'm tempted to get on the list for them. My Stepdad loves drafties and grew up working horses. He'd love them! No, I would certainly not call them "unwanted!"

    I agree with the points of your post. Somehow change must be enacted to stop this broken system fraught with abuse. The status quo is not working and in 40 years nothing has improved despite many efforts to make positive changes.



  4. #4
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    I firmly believe that everyone has a right to an oi\pinion, even if I vehemently disagree, which is why I do not have county on an ignore list.
    Last edited by DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"; Jan. 23, 2007 at 02:57 PM.
    www.specialhorses.org
    a 501(c)3 organization helping 501(c)3 equine rescues




  5. #5

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    Same deal as always. Horse slaughter needs to stop because of abuse. Carry on with the samne system for other species because some like eating them. Can't understand the concept its fine as long as I like eating certain ones.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.


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  6. #6
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    County, can you please go back to your platform on the anti-anti slaughter thread? We were asked to leave that thread so that you all could jump on your bandwagons over there; give us the same courtesy here. Plus, you say the same thing over and over, and until you have something new to offer, you are boring.
    SPAY/NEUTER/RESCUE/ADOPT!
    Little Star Chihuahua Rescue
    The Barkalicious Bakery
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  7. #7

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    And you also say the same thing over and over and are also boring. I don't see where I've asked anyone to not post any where. This is a public forum perhaps you need to look up the definition of that. As I've said before talk to the moderators if you think theres any rules being broken. If not then live with life as it is.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.


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  8. #8
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    Yes, but THIS thread is for people AGAINST SLAUGHTER, which we all know you are FOR. Let me explain a little clearer: do you post information on the dressage forum? the racing forum?I didn't think so. Therefore, please realize your opinion is not wanted on threads you don't have anything to contribute to. WE ALL KNOW you are pro-slaughter! So go where you can be embraced!
    SPAY/NEUTER/RESCUE/ADOPT!
    Little Star Chihuahua Rescue
    The Barkalicious Bakery
    On Facebook!!!



  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MayS View Post
    Our society makes it so easy for people to trade-in horses, like a car dealer. This Ford truck isn't to my liking anymore, so can I trade it in for a Chevy? Except for horses, we have a system that pays you more to junk the Ford for parts than try to resell that almost-new Ford to someone else. In some ways, Americans take better care of their cars then they do their horses.

    These above-mentioned horses are not unwanted. Sponsors paid $1,100 to buy this pair out of the feedlot (broker said it was his meat price). If slaughter was illegal, it wouldn't have cost nearly as much to gain these guys their freedom. Or if it was illegal, the original owner wouldn't have gotten so much for his trade-in and he might've tried to find a home for them himself instead of doing a quick drop-off.

    They are not useless: I have a waiting list of people wanting to see these guys, as soon as quarantine is over. These boys load & trailer nice, lead, stand, tie, stay out of personal space, come when called, and don't have any vices I can find. I load the pair of them all by myself in about 5 minutes onto a 2-horse bumper pull. These are NICE horses.

    And had the sponsors not gotten the tip about this pair, they would've been on a one-way trip to the main feedlot. The horses would've vanished off all radar when it comes to minimum care standards, enforcing cruelty laws, or requiring them even the least bit of vet care. If they'd gotten hurt in transit, nobody wouldn't noticed or cared. Kicked by another in the truck and leg fractured? Irrelevant. The trip from my region is at least 1,000 miles to either TX or IL kill plants: no spacious truck, no unloading to rest, no medical care, no vet care, no separating really aggressive ones out, etc. And then they can sit on the USDA feedlot for days or weeks.
    You are operating from the premise that YOU have a god-given right to get good horses cheap. Hence your whine about having to pay as much as $1100 to "rescue" them -- damn horse killers, you should have been able to get them for free 'cuz you're so special, I guess. But you didn't "rescue" them; you merely purchased them. Just like anybody else who ever buys a horse and either has to pay what the seller wants or negotiate a better deal. Only thing different on this deal is you did your buying with money you'd begged from somebody else. Unless your "sponsor" gets their money back when you sell these horses to any of the people on your "waiting list" for them; in that case your "sponsor" is just a "horse dealer" -- pretty much like the guy YOU got the horses from.

    You are also operating from the premise that people shouldn't have the right to do what YOU don't want them doing. Hence your whine about the logger being "irresponsible". He needs bigger horses to do his job. The meat man was willing to pay as much as the seller was willing to accept. Just like every time anybody ever sells a horse.

    Again, the "I worship horses and the behavior of all must reflect my beliefs" argument.


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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by county View Post
    Same deal as always. Horse slaughter needs to stop because of abuse. Carry on with the samne system for other species because some like eating them. Can't understand the concept its fine as long as I like eating certain ones.
    American horses are not raised as food. They are brought into this world as pets, working horses and friends. Then when no longer "usuable", some people find that slaughter is an acceptable way to dump their burdens. The same horses that worked for them, allowed them to ride or drive them, became their friend and trusted them.
    How can you compare a horse to other livestock (cows, pigs, etc) that is raised in a field and bred specifically with the intent to use for food?
    County, I hope you don't own any horses.

    Proud CANTER foster mommy
    RIP Barbaro
    In loving memory of Blitzen 1993-1/28/2007



  11. #11
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    This is not a forum for anti-slaughter only, I don't think, but for general horse discourse.

    ---"Sponsors paid $1,100 to buy this pair out of the feedlot (broker said it was his meat price). If slaughter was illegal, it wouldn't have cost nearly as much to gain these guys their freedom."---

    So you buy you some nice horses from a dealer and want credit for "rescuing" them?
    He sells some nice horses, makes his profit and uses that money to buy some more.

    How is that affecting slaughter bound horses in general, other than in your mind?


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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonriverfarm View Post
    Yes, but THIS thread is for people AGAINST SLAUGHTER, which we all know you are FOR. Let me explain a little clearer: do you post information on the dressage forum? the racing forum?I didn't think so. Therefore, please realize your opinion is not wanted on threads you don't have anything to contribute to. WE ALL KNOW you are pro-slaughter! So go where you can be embraced!
    That attitude always works really well for the board. LOL
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.



  13. #13
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    Folks, please knock off with the "But I don't want you here" whining.

    What you want is irrelevant. Anyone can post on a public forum, provided they follow the rules. Everyone appears to be following the rules, which tells me that objections are based on the arbitrary assumption that anyone speaking on the issue should share your views for the discussion to "have meaning."

    They don't share your view, and not addressing their viewpoints intelligently just weakens your own arguments (and that is addressed to all, no matter what "side" they are on).

    If you want to champion a controversial cause, then I suggest you learn how to articulate your opinion intelligently in the face of opposition, no matter how unpleasant. Simply ignoring it will not make you a very strong advocate, and may actually hurt your credibility.

    Just a thought.
    "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." -Don Marquis
    **CEO of the TQ "Learn How To Ride or MOVE OVER!!" Clique**



  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MayS View Post
    If slaughter was illegal, it wouldn't have cost nearly as much to gain these guys their freedom. Or if it was illegal, the original owner wouldn't have gotten so much for his trade-in and he might've tried to find a home for them himself instead of doing a quick drop-off.
    From my experience if there isn't a slaughter price base line these horses remain out in a pasture and starve to death because the owner has no insentive to take them to market. Even the increase in gas prices is coming into play when people are deciding to drop off horses at market. If they don't think they can get their gas money/hauling fee back the leave the horses out in the pasture to starve. I know one trader has 35 in a feild with one moldy round bale but gas prices are too high to justify him making a trip to market with them. He has some of last years hay left over and that may tide some of them over until spring. These aren't the people who are going to go out and look for good homes for their horses.
    I've picked up horses at auctions and tracks and rehabbed them. I'm not saying something doesn't need to be done. But banning euthanasia at some humane societies hasn't helped the number of stay dogs or the condition you find some of them in.


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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by greysandbays View Post
    You are operating from the premise that YOU have a god-given right to get good horses cheap. Hence your whine about having to pay as much as $1100 to "rescue" them
    Methinks the whine you are hearing is all in your head... as the way I read it was that for a MERE $1100 thesehoress were rescued. I also read that the author believes that when slaughter is illegal that price will probably be cheaper without the bargain basement "slaughter" minimum price set.



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilton View Post
    From my experience if there isn't a slaughter price base line these horses remain out in a pasture and starve to death because the owner has no insentive to take them to market.
    His incentive was he logs for a living and needed bigger horses to do so.. so in this case I would think he would have advertised them for sale and I also think it would have been in his best interest to keep them healthy and fit to see the most money for them so that he could afford the bigger models he needs. Otherwise, leaving them out in a field to starve, he's shot himself in the foot.



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilton View Post
    But banning euthanasia at some humane societies hasn't helped the number of stay dogs or the condition you find some of them in.
    And having lots of shelters who DO euthanise animals routinely has also not made a dent in the number of animals abused and neglected. One does not necessarily preclude the other.
    Last edited by Angela Freda; Jan. 23, 2007 at 02:05 PM. Reason: spelling of course!



  18. #18
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    No it does not. Neither is a quick fix. I just don't think banning without other measures in place is the answer. But at the same time it is hard to put restrictions on what an individual can do with their personal property.


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  19. #19
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    If you paid $1100 for 2 belgians that were headed for the kill pen you got ripped off. You can buy them for 200 - 300 at the auctions all of the time.
    Lapeer ... a small drinking town with a farming problem.
    Proud Closet Canterer!


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  20. #20
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    A question for the original poster:

    Are you now going to call those horses you bought "rescues", sell them to someone as an "adoption" for a hefty "donation" and still keep ownership of them, so they have to return them to you?

    Who would fall for that, tell me?


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