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  1. #41
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    The problem is not a matter of Victorian roots in this country (that's more British than American), it's a matter of the current turn to political correctness. It really is making a mess of things over here. You can't say anything to anyone that might be offensive, and yet you have the right to free speech??? It doesn't always work that way.

    Bad manners are one thing, but being responsible for how everyone else on the planet just might incorrectly interpret your statements is a whole other issue. You can phrase things as carefully as you like, but some people will still hear what the want. Just take a look out here. Some posts are taken at least two, if not three, different ways, depending upon the reader (and how they feel that day). Then again, often people are just downright mean, and that really doesn't leave any room for interpretation.

    Just as the person reading your reply was annoyed, you are annoyed by their response. Seems to be a parallel there in communication issues...



  2. #42
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    There is an important difference between posting your video to a forum and asking for critique and simply posting on youtube.

    To say that people posting vids of themselves 'smacks of exhibitionism' I think is harsh and unfair..

    I have posted vids of my horses on youtube not to ellicit comments,or to show off to the general public but as an easy way to share what's going on in my life with family and friends who live far away.

    So,to me it smacks of self-importance to post a negative (unsolicited)criticism on youtube.



  3. #43
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    Who has the time to look at random videos on Youthe tube and give critiques to people they do not know and are not paying them?

    What does that say about a person?



  4. #44
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    Oct. 16, 2002
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    Cool I wonder about this too!

    Quote Originally Posted by Liz View Post
    Who has the time to look at random videos on Youthe tube and give critiques to people they do not know and are not paying them?

    What does that say about a person?




  5. #45
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    If they have a coach..why are they asking the nameless faceless masses on the internet?
    Because there's more then one way to do things and the internet allows the input of the masses....who knows you might actually learn something new.
    I have horse to sell to you. Horse good for riding. Can pull cart. Horse good size. Eats carrots and apples. Likes attention. Move head to music. No like opera! You like you buy.



  6. #46
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    Nov. 1, 2001
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    My impression of many Europeans is that they don't understand/accept the American habit of focusing on the positive aspect of most things. Many view this tendency as dishonest or at least fake. Many Americans tend to view many Europeans as unnecessarily harsh. In reality, I think this comes a difference in culture or social behavior. When I was studying German, I watch a lot of German videos and TV. It seemed to me that Germans have severely restricted facial expressions, their lower faces hardly move at all. When pointed this out to my instructor, who was German, he said that many Europeans find American effusiveness to false and exaggerated. Go figure.

    I am not inclined to offer up negative criticism purely for its own sake. If I think a person will be able to do something useful with, fine. Otherwise, I used a modification of Bill Clinton's "nice tie" comment
    See those flying monkeys? They work for me.



  7. #47
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    Funny, nhwr, but I knew an old German trainer who always used something about the rider's boots being nicely polished. I also know that I heard Walter Zettl use a similar statement. So I think that German's do know how to say something that comes across as nice, sort of like the southern "well bless your heart". Sort of funny that they DO have a similar saying, but there's is specifically for dressage.

    Guess people are still people no matter where you go...



  8. #48
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    Aug. 25, 2004
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    Default Learn to read

    Quote Originally Posted by Liz View Post
    Who has the time to look at random videos on Youthe tube and give critiques to people they do not know and are not paying them?

    What does that say about a person?
    When people post these links on a bulletin board and ask for critique, is something else than looking at random video's.



  9. #49
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    Apr. 22, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhwr View Post
    My impression of many Europeans is that they don't understand/accept the American habit of focusing on the positive aspect of most things. Many view this tendency as dishonest or at least fake. Many Americans tend to view many Europeans as unnecessarily harsh. In reality, I think this comes a difference in culture or social behavior. When I was studying German, I watch a lot of German videos and TV. It seemed to me that Germans have severely restricted facial expressions, their lower faces hardly move at all. When pointed this out to my instructor, who was German, he said that many Europeans find American effusiveness to false and exaggerated. Go figure.
    If Americans are considered effusiveness to false because they smile, where are we Latins considered!



  10. #50
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    Apr. 22, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liz View Post
    Who has the time to look at random videos on Youthe tube and give critiques to people they do not know and are not paying them?

    What does that say about a person?
    Is not that I think is right, but Youtube is about that, is a community where you post a video and people bagan making comments and discussing if they happen to have some interest in your video. There are other place where you can post a video, jut be seen and no one can comment, but Youtube is about the interaction of the members.
    So, when you post in Youtube you have to be aware or what are you getting in to.



  11. #51
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    Aug. 7, 2000
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    So I went back to read Theo's original post, and what I understood from this reading is that the original video was on youtube, AND that the person-who-posted asked for critique.

    That Theo and a judge and a trainer watched the video, that everyone gave their two cents, and that Theo posted a critique.

    That the original video poerson was ticked off by the critique and removed the video.

    And that Theo asked, on this BB, why did they put the video there in the first place AND ASK FOR CRITIQUE?

    Now, as no one in their right (or wrong) minds has time to type in the word 'dressur' or 'dressage' and actually WATCH all of youtube's output, Im guessing that at least one of the trio of critiquers KNEW the rider or the horse in the youtube video <g>.

    In any case, I think that if one posts a video to a public place and asks for critique--well, stand up and be brave or don't bother asking.



  12. #52
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    Jan. 20, 2004
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    I think there is a big difference too, between someone posting a video of themselves and their horse on youtube when they are an amateur and someone doing so as a pro. If you are an amateur you may be trying to show off to your friends/peers, or get advice from more knowledgeable people, but you will not recieve money or clients as a result of your efforts. If you are a pro it is a form of marketing, and they may get more recognition but they may also be passed around the internet as an example of what not to do. They have to take the good with the bad as they are trying to promote themselves in the end. Many pros in the US suffer from "big fish in small pond" syndrome. Youtube and other public forums help to eliminate this which will upset some people- oh well. This process needs to occur for dressage to continue to improve in the U.S.



  13. #53
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    Oct. 2, 2003
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    So you posted a critique and the rider couldn't take it. Why then go on another forum and use this as an opportunity to make generalizations about Americans?



  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horsedances View Post

    In general I noticed that tooo many horses in the USA are riden much "te veel uit elkaar"

    Theo
    Is funny because I have also noticed something similar, professional riders that go to horse shows (of course those are public venues) and they get extremelly upset when someone critisize their riding, they even threat people who take pictures or videos of them. Ooops, sorry that is not American riders, is actually Dutch riders



  15. #55
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    Default OMG

    Quote Originally Posted by Liz View Post
    So you posted a critique and the rider couldn't take it. Why then go on another forum and use this as an opportunity to make generalizations about Americans?
    Because I noticed that horses in America are probably 20 inches longer



  16. #56
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    Default OMG Again

    Quote Originally Posted by P.R.E. View Post
    Is funny because I have also noticed something similar, professional riders that go to horse shows (of course those are public venues) and they get extremelly upset when someone critisize their riding, they even threat people who take pictures or videos of them. Ooops, sorry that is not American riders, is actually Dutch riders
    Did you address this critique to the rider, and did he or she ask you for critique



  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horsedances View Post
    Did you address this critique to the rider, and did he or she ask you for critique
    When you are a professional, you accept the fact that you are going to be exposed to critique. It happens in every sport, but in Dressag in Holland. I have nothing aggainst that rider, actually is the opposite. I do believe in freedom of speech, so I don't like the thug that tries to intimidate people.

    Sorry, I forgot, i am not supposed to say anything because is a Dutch rider But you can make generalizations about Americans, doesn't seem fair.

    So you noticed that horses in America, are 20 inches longer? I noticed while going through a history book, that if it would not be because of those Americans you would be speaking German instead of Dutch



  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by P.R.E. View Post
    When you are a professional, you accept the fact that you are going to be exposed to critique. It happens in every sport, but in Dressag in Holland. I have nothing aggainst that rider, actually is the opposite. I do believe in freedom of speech, so I don't like the thug that tries to intimidate people.

    Sorry, I forgot, i am not supposed to say anything because is a Dutch rider But you can make generalizations about Americans, doesn't seem fair.

    So you noticed that horses in America, are 20 inches longer? I noticed while going through a history book, that if it would not be because of those Americans you would be speaking German instead of Dutch
    You must be switched over from UDBB, because the same remark was made over there. The next remark (also from the UDBB) "I hope that when our troops leave Iraq they have some bombs left to throw on Holland" will probably be your next posting.

    And yes we are very happy that we can speak German, English, French and Dutch, and our history books tells us that we were liberated by the Canadians, Australians, Polish, English and Americans. Our history books also tells us that the Dutch sold New York for 10 $. But this is all stuff for another forum, don't you think ?!

    I just can give people like you one advice "start learning Chinese"

    Theo



  19. #59
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    P.R.E., I wouldn't judge all Dutch people by Horsedances. That wouldn't be fair to the Dutch.



  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horsedances View Post
    You must be switched over from UDBB, because the same remark was made over there. The next remark (also from the UDBB) "I hope that when our troops leave Iraq they have some bombs left to throw on Holland" will probably be your next posting.

    And yes we are very happy that we can speak German, English, French and Dutch, and our history books tells us that we were liberated by the Canadians, Australians, Polish, English and Americans. Our history books also tells us that the Dutch sold New York for 10 $. But this is all stuff for another forum, don't you think ?!

    I just can give people like you one advice "start learning Chinese"

    Theo
    I went on UDBB and looked for your quote and did not find it. Can you post a link? I think Americans are taught to provide feedback by always starting by something nice and to give constructive criticism rather then blunt criticism. Its a cultural difference. Another one would be that here in college teachers will bend over backward to help a student succeed - give extra assignments, makeup exams, open hours for consultation, etc.. none of that was available in french college. The feeling one got was that the teachers were there to see you fail and that it was survival of the brightest and these got a big dose of ego bruising in the process. Here teachers give As. I grew up where teachers would not give As on the principle that A is perfect and no student is perfect. And its a much bigger country so perhaps pleasant superficial contact is more confortable?



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