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  1. #381
    Join Date
    Nov. 1, 2001
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    9,961

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    So its okay to ride a 3 year old hard if you are riding him in the discipline he was bread for?? Ooooooh-kay.
    What you don't get, Two Simple, is that horse isn't being worked hard. For him, this stuff is easy and that is why a lot of us like him
    See those flying monkeys? They work for me.



  2. #382
    Join Date
    Mar. 12, 2006
    Location
    Western South Dakota
    Posts
    2,519

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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Simple View Post
    So its okay to ride a 3 year old hard if you are riding him in the discipline he was bread for?? Ooooooh-kay.
    Oh Two Simple, why do you make this sooooo complicated? Quaterback (not Quarterman, my bad) was BRED (not bread, although he looks delicious) to move like this. It is EASY for him. He is NOT working hard. He is not being ridden hard.

    Our 5 year old (he'll turn 6 in Feb.) is learning changes. It is EASY for him. All of the work, up to now has been easy for him so he has come along quickly. BUT, always, we pay a lot of attention to what the horses tell us. If you are a decent horseman, and these Europeans haven't accomplished what they have by not being good horsemen, you let the horse tell you what they are ready for.



  3. #383
    Join Date
    Sep. 25, 2005
    Location
    The Land of the Frozen
    Posts
    13,787

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    O - K

    Everybody has their own opinion.



  4. #384
    Join Date
    Mar. 11, 2003
    Posts
    3,131

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    Quote Originally Posted by egontoast View Post
    santa' s sporting a goatee this yr and Mrs santa has one under each arm

    but we digress!

    PS I think the dearly departed Sabine's SO rides dressage with a hairy face,
    Sabine got banned? Bummer!!!



  5. #385
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2001
    Posts
    8,542

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    Yeah, bummer, considering who else is allowed to blather on in supreme ignorance.



  6. #386
    Join Date
    Mar. 9, 2006
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Posts
    1,763

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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Simple View Post
    I would be very interested to get a copy of this study. Can you tell me the group that conducted it, and where I might get copies? Thanks!
    You could probably find it yourself faster on medline. It will take me years to find that journal. It was race horses, specifically dealing with a question about bucked shins, but the results were that ligament and bone density and thickness were increased in horses in work versus those stalled. Granted, there was no "turnout" group, since racing TBs are rarely housed that way. I believe it was a UPenn study, and I heard a talk referring to it (and then pulled the copy) back in 1996, so the date is prior to that.
    From now on, ponyfixer, i'll include foot note references.



  7. #387
    Join Date
    Mar. 9, 2006
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Posts
    1,763

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    Here is something a bit more scientific for those who advocate that working a horse this age like this is OK. I am almost certain the studies that Pony Fixer is talking about were done on race horses and discussed building bone density and did not really focus on the latest part of the horse to mature...their spine and backs....and was not really about sport horses in general or horses asked to work like dressage horses are.

    http://www.equinestudies.org/knowledge_base/ranger.html
    I don't disagree with all of what this article says. However, if it ain't referrenced and in a peer-reviewed journal, it ain't a "study" (not that you said it was). There is no way, from that article, to find from where all her "evidence" stems.
    From now on, ponyfixer, i'll include foot note references.



  8. #388
    Join Date
    Mar. 9, 2006
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Posts
    1,763

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    TS--those studies largely don't exist for several reasons. One, money. Who wants to study that and pay for it--food companies? Fencing or stabling companies? Second, controls. You can't control for how much exercise a pastured horse gets. Mine, he can almost stay fit outside. His buddy is a pasture potato. Third, the study was terminal. They euthanized all the horses to cut up the legs and measure the bone/ligament size, density, etc.

    My point is not that horses SHOULD or SHOULD NOT be backed at a certain age. It's just that, like most of life, it is highly variable and specific to the case at hand. BUT, because you decide to back a particular horse at a particular age for a particular reason does not inherently cause them to have issues down the road. Actually, I should not have said inherently. ;-p Genetics probably plays a large role in long term soundness, more so than when first backed. A summit synopsis was just published this week regarding making racing safer for TBs. Seems we have more horses than 50 years ago, the same # of starts, so therefore each horse is racing less. However, breakdowns are occurring at a higher rate. Two factors greatly considered--genetics (breeding for faster, not sounder) and toe grabs (hopefully greater than 4 mm soon to be banned).
    From now on, ponyfixer, i'll include foot note references.



  9. #389
    Join Date
    Jul. 13, 2006
    Posts
    1,902

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    There was an article in Equus not too long ago (3-6 months) about this issue.
    *** 4 More Years ***
    *** 4 More Years ***



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