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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov. 26, 2006
    Posts
    13

    Thumbs down Trainer Lies About Use of Horse or Trainer Violates One Client to Benefit Anouther...

    This situation recently came up: I was called by my Friend, who said she had called our Trainer and asked her if I could ride her Horse for her that day because she was still out sick. Trainer told my Friend that I was too busy that day and that the Horse would be turned out. My Friend had called to ask me if I could squeeze in a ride on her Horse, as she didnt want him just turned out and she also didnt want anyone else to ride him (a point she had made very clear to Trainer before). I said "sure, I'll make time" all the while wondering what Trainer had for me to do that would keep me so busy. Knowing my Friend didnt want anyone else to ride her horse, I went out to the barn a bit earlier then I was planning. I get there and the Horse is already tacked up by anouther Student. My heart sank, and I walked into the office and looked at the lesson board. I saw that Trainer had written in this Student as the rider of the Horse the previous day.

    If you have been following along with me, this mean's that Trainer lied to my Friend about what the Horse was going to do that day. She had decided the DAY BEFORE that the Student was going to use my Friend's horse in her lesson. I know this because Trainer wasent at the barn yet that morning, and so couldnt have changed her mind last minute. She lied about the turnout, KNOWING my Friend didnt want anyone else on her horse. Now, it wouldnt have been a big deal if the Student was one of the better, more advanced students. But the Student that rode the Horse was an intermediate student that, though she most likely wouldnt HURT the Horse, she certainly wasent going to help him in any way. (I myself was a little peeved, only because I had ridden the horse the previous two days, trying to lighten and soften him up so he'd be extra good for my Friend when she was well.) Student was given the ride on the Horse for her lesson because her own mount was sore, and so got the day off.

    I just can't believe that Trainer:
    1.) Purposefully put down the Student as the rider of the horse KNOWING the previous wishes of my Friend that no one but approved riders ride her horse.
    2.) LIED to my Friend about it, knowing she wouldn't be at the barn that day to see, and I'm assuming, figuring that no one would think to call my Friend and tell her what was happening.
    3.) Put one client above anouther, by way of disregarding the wishes of one client (my Friend) to benefit anouther (the Student that didnt have a horse for her lesson that day).

    I just can't believe that all this has happened. I have heard storys about it happening before, but I've never been smack in the middle of it, witnessing it as it was going on. All I can say is that I'm very dissapointed in Trainer for her lack of professionalism and courtesy. Trainer has done ALOT for me, and has been very generous and very kind, but I just dont know what to think anymore.

    What are your opinions on this situation, as either a client or a trainer?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan. 7, 2000
    Location
    The burbs of Chicago
    Posts
    3,776

    Default

    So did you call your friend to inform her that this was happening? Secondly why did you not confront the trainer?
    I want to be like Barbie because that bitch has everything!



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2005
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    4,159

    Default

    Wow, I would have flipped out. Regardless of how much the trainer had done for me in the past. I also would have stopped that lesson pronto and informed the trainer that I would be riding the horse for my friend, not anyone else and if the trainer had an issue with it, she would be welcome to call my friend. However, I do not know how your barn is run, maybe it is normal for the trainer to make decisions about the horses work schedules?



  4. #4
    Join Date
    May. 7, 2002
    Location
    Somewhere
    Posts
    717

    Default

    What I'd like to know is how trainers can do this and think they can get away with it? That's like letting someone take someone else's car out to work since the other one isn't using it. What about insurance? Accident? Ruining something that isn't theirs? I can't believe the audacity of this trainer--personally, if I were your friend, I'd have a sharp word to say to that trainer and be GONE the next day. IF this trainer did it once before, they'll do it again. To me, that isn't someone I'd want to be doing business with.

    I'd confront trainer, wait for an apology and make sure it's very clear that that NEVER happens again.

    Too bad if someone is horseless. That's life--horses get sore. People miss lessons and shows. Welcome to the real world.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan. 13, 2003
    Posts
    6,837

    Default

    Besides the GLARING FACT that there is a liability issue here. If the STUDENT is injured - the owner of the horse has exposure.

    I'd pull a horse from a barn that did this. The Trainer should be put on notice that this is NOT legal to use someone's horse for another person's benefit without prior approval.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct. 5, 2000
    Location
    school
    Posts
    5,995

    Default

    Welcome to the wonderful world of dishonest trainers
    It's common beyond common around here for dishonest trainers to take use/abuse of someone's horse with or without their knowledge.
    I can only suggest you find a new trainer, real soon. This kind of terrible breach of trust is the one reason I'd urge a person to run..fast.. to a new trainer. It shows that you CAN NOT trust this trainer.... there is no knowing what else a dishonest person is capable of doing.


    (and.. sorry! )



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep. 29, 2004
    Posts
    4,141

    Default

    I hope you told your friend--she has a right to know what's going on with her horse.

    I'd be livid. My trainer puts people on my horses when they need exercise, using her discression, but she would NEVER do it against my wishes or lie about it.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar. 14, 2000
    Location
    WA. The Evergreen State Where The Horses Are Forever Green
    Posts
    17,256

    Default

    I am with Hucklebug. I am always asked when any of my trainer's don't have time or are going to be away, what they thought would be best for Elliot.
    I have almost always had the choice.
    When I haven't or got bills for services that were not discussed with me beforehand I have left.


    Your friend may decide it is ok or not. Either way, she needs to discuss her wishes with the trainer. Not you. Your friend is the one who pays the bills on her horse.
    JMHO of course.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr. 16, 2005
    Posts
    6,769

    Default

    I think you should talk to your friend about what you saw. And let her make the decision on what she wants to do. Since she's the one paying the bills.

    I have no problem with others riding my horse. But only if I'm asked first. I would be LIVID and moving my horse promptly if I caught or found out my trainer had used my horse w/o my permission.

    I do have an "open ended" understanding with a fellow boarder about her horse. I can ride him whenever I want to. It was nice to know/have when my horse was completely laid up. But now that's he's in Rehab, I don't have time to ride her horse and mine. But I know if I ever wanted to hop on her horse, I could. And another boarder has offered her horse also. And has said I can ride him too.

    I think as long as there is an "understanding" upfront, it shouldn't be a problem. But if your friend specifically said she only wanted you to ride her horse if she can't, those wishes should have been honored.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar. 19, 2003
    Posts
    376

    Default

    olympicALTER
    I do find this wrong but let me just say this was not about benefiting one client over the other. This was about benefiting the trainer - client still takes lesson and money in trainers pocket. If you ride the horse no money made.

    Bottom line client owns horse maybe trainer & program are not the one for her? Only she can make that decission.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul. 20, 2003
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    1,426

    Cool

    Something here seems amiss. More info is needed.

    Is the friend the owner of the horse or do they lease the horse?

    If they lease the horse, does the trainer own the horse or does someone else?

    If the friend leases the horse are they the only lessee or is it a shared lease?

    Is the friend's horse in training with the trainer?

    Does the trainer do training rides on friend's horse?

    If not; does the friend take regular lessons with the trainer only on this horse?
    Horsezee



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr. 26, 2006
    Location
    Madison, Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,524

    Default

    And who is olympicAlter? An assistant trainer? Just the friend of the other lady? A junior with time on her hands to ride other people's horses? I'm interested in some more info, too. I find it hard to believe that if the horse had NEVER been used in lessons before (as in, there was precedent for this) that the trainer would just take a personally owned horse and schedule a lesson on it...
    Quote Originally Posted by tidy rabbit View Post
    Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2001
    Location
    down the road from bar.ka
    Posts
    32,210

    Default

    Well, on the surface this looks bad. IF the trainer did lie about the use of the horse, your friend owns the horse and it was used in a lesson to generate profit for trainer? That's a problem.

    Problem here is you did not listen in on what was said by either party but are relying on second hand information. Who knows exactly what was said. You may not be aware of other details discussed or other arrangements between friend and trainer involving use of the horse or, maybe, agreement between friend's parents and trainer to use horse for lessons. You just don't know the whole story, only what your friend chose to share.

    In any case it would be up to your friend to discuss this with the trainer as she is the "wronged party". You can tell your friend the horse was used in lessons and it is up to her to persue it with the trainer.

    If trainer did what you describe there is no excuse. If something else was going on besides what you were told there may be a good reason.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb. 22, 2000
    Location
    Keswick, VA
    Posts
    7,871

    Default

    What are your opinions on this situation, as either a client or a trainer?
    As a client in the OP's position, it would be emphatically none of my business. Trainer determines work schedules for the horses, period. I don't think a client ever has the right to approach another client regarding their animal. That's how barn drama is created and misinformation gets started.
    If the OP is an employee of the barn, it's equally inappropriate for her to approach a client.
    If you don't like the trainer's system, leave, but don't stir the pot before you go. All it does is wreck YOUR reputation.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov. 26, 2006
    Posts
    13

    Default Allow me to clarify...

    Quote Originally Posted by Horsezee View Post
    Something here seems amiss. More info is needed.

    Is the friend the owner of the horse or do they lease the horse?

    If they lease the horse, does the trainer own the horse or does someone else?

    If the friend leases the horse are they the only lessee or is it a shared lease?

    Is the friend's horse in training with the trainer?

    Does the trainer do training rides on friend's horse?

    If not; does the friend take regular lessons with the trainer only on this horse?

    My Friend has a full lease on the Horse.

    The owner is anouther student at the barn, an amateur that took time off to have a family, and so leased the Horse to my Friend, also an amateur. The Owner is EXTREMLY nitpicky about EVERY aspect of her Horse's care and wellbeing, and would be very upset to find out that Trainer did not respect my Friend's wishes.

    Both the Friend and the Horse are in full training. It was understood that the horse was either to be (a) ridden by Trainer (b) ridden by someone who had been "approved" (such as if Trainer called and said "hey would it be ok if THIS advanced student rode your horse in a lesson today?" or someone who had been requested, this case it was me or (c) the horse was to be turned out.

    Yes, the Trainer does do training rides on the horse.

    Yes, my Friend takes regular lessons on this horse only, unless Trainer wants her on one of her own horses for a certain reason.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov. 26, 2006
    Posts
    13

    Default Some more clarification...

    Quote Originally Posted by ExJumper View Post
    And who is olympicAlter? An assistant trainer? Just the friend of the other lady? A junior with time on her hands to ride other people's horses? I'm interested in some more info, too. I find it hard to believe that if the horse had NEVER been used in lessons before (as in, there was precedent for this) that the trainer would just take a personally owned horse and schedule a lesson on it...
    I am a fellow student, also an adult ammie, as is my Friend. I agree, this is a bit confusing so let me try to calrify the horses "standing" in the barn . If you read my last reply, you know that my Friend is a full lessee of said Horse. The owner took lessons and was in training with Trainer before deciding to have a family, and so has leased her Horse to my Friend while she does so. Horse has been used in advanced lessons ONLY. Such as, advanced adults and some juniors that have been pre-approved by both the Owner, when she was riding, and now the Friend since she is leasing. Both the Friend and the Owner feel the same way about which riders should be on Horse. The Student that rode Horse in her lesson was an intermediate junior, thus causing a problem for both my Friend, and if the Owner ever hears about it, her as well.

    As for if I told her, yes, I called my Friend and informed her that said Student was riding Horse in her lesson. I gave Student advice on how he rides, and how to get the best out of him, and did my best to smooth out the situation. Friend was not happy when she was informed, and thought Owner might get mad at her despite her attempts at preventing something like this from happening.

    I'm the type that says "Well, maybe she did that becuase of.... so its not really that bad." But the fact that she lied really upset me, I didnt know how to defend that. I also have heard other storys and seen parts of other things that made me think "hmm i didnt think that person wanted that student on her horse, but she must have changed her mind". I realize now, that maybe Trainer wasent following others wishes.

    I hope that clarifys things a bit.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep. 15, 2006
    Posts
    771

    Default too many involved

    Since your friend is not the owner of the animal, it really is up to the owner and the trainer.

    It seems that too many people are allowed "access" to this horse, so there are too many variables.

    Let it slide...there will always be another drama to deal with next week. Just make sure you have your wits about you with regards to the horse you own and pay the bills on.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar. 7, 2006
    Posts
    81

    Default

    Whoever/whatever - a lie was told by trainer to client . . . what transpired when owner/leasee confronted trainer? Lies affect trust.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar. 6, 2002
    Location
    The Bayou City
    Posts
    3,800

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CBoylen View Post
    As a client in the OP's position, it would be emphatically none of my business. Trainer determines work schedules for the horses, period. I don't think a client ever has the right to approach another client regarding their animal. That's how barn drama is created and misinformation gets started.
    If the OP is an employee of the barn, it's equally inappropriate for her to approach a client.
    If you don't like the trainer's system, leave, but don't stir the pot before you go. All it does is wreck YOUR reputation.
    I am seriously perplexed by this reply. You're telling me that if you saw a trainer put someone on your good friend's horse that was NOT approved by them and that trainer had deliberately deceived your friend and said horse would be turned out and not ridden that you would just blow it off because it's none of your business?

    Hogwash!!! I hope I don't have any closet non-friends like you at the barn! Around here, we look out for each other and each other's horses when the other is not around. Not because we're worried about this kind of thing but because we want to. If I saw someone other than trainer getting on a friend's horse you can bet your tail I'd be sticking my nose in to make sure she had OK'd it.

    As for ruining your reputation People standing up to trainers who pull crap like this aren't getting a bad reputation, they're getting respect from others and thanks for looking out for their animals when they can't be around to do it themselves.

    Your reply was posted before the OP clarified this was a lease but what does that matter? What if it was a lease from another barn and the trainer had no relationship with owner.....would it still be OK for trainer to lie about who is/is not riding the horse?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it"



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb. 22, 2000
    Location
    Keswick, VA
    Posts
    7,871

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flshgordon View Post
    I am seriously perplexed by this reply. You're telling me that if you saw a trainer put someone on your good friend's horse that was NOT approved by them and that trainer had deliberately deceived your friend and said horse would be turned out and not ridden that you would just blow it off because it's none of your business?
    Absolutely. It's the trainer's barn. It is not my place, or any client's place, to interfere between the trainer and the other clients. Mouth shut, and the answer to all questions that don't directly involve you is "I don't know". That is the only way to avoid barn drama in any barn.



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