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  1. #441
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2001
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    8,542

    Thumbs down

    tsktsktsk

    Is it not also arrogant to pass judgement from on high?



  2. #442
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2000
    Posts
    24,408

    Default

    seriously, kareen, did yiou check this over with egon first?



  3. #443
    Join Date
    Sep. 18, 2003
    Posts
    4,698

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kareen View Post
    Anyone who thinks it is beyond themselves to answer a question they consider ignorant or rude is no less ignorant or rude themselves in my way of thinking and doesn't serve any discussion but merely displays a great deal of arrogance.
    Excellent point.
    __________________________
    "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
    the best day in ten years,
    you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."



  4. #444
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2002
    Location
    Waterford, VA USA
    Posts
    4,979

    Default

    Kareen,

    you know what they say about opinions... right?
    And it must get lonely up there where you think you are.....
    Siegi Belz
    www.stalleuropa.com
    2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
    Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.



  5. #445
    Join Date
    Jan. 25, 2001
    Posts
    1,371

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by siegi b. View Post
    Kareen,

    you know what they say about opinions... right?
    And it must get lonely up there where you think you are.....
    Hmm...here we go again...attacking a person versus discussing the point made...
    "Dreams are the touchstone of our characters." Henry David Thoreau
    Touchstone Farm
    www.bytouchstonefarm.com



  6. #446
    Join Date
    Aug. 7, 2000
    Posts
    3,956

    Default

    If all of you want to play in your rollkur sandbox, please, please start a new thread.



  7. #447
    Join Date
    Jun. 7, 2001
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    2,522

    Default

    Well I'd say the GDF is pretty much trying to officially get it leaglized so why start a new thread?
    What's going on seriously reminds me of the bible tale of the dance around the golden calv. Much to the sense of 'if it is golden it must be good' *LOL*
    I respect anybody's opinion and I thank Eurobreederstour for taking the time to give us what I found to be a balanced and honest report of what went on.
    Anybody please do what you think is best but don't whine when you have to get used to competing in front of empty showgrounds, not getting any TV coverage etc.etc.



  8. #448
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2001
    Posts
    8,542

    Default

    Anybody please do what you think is best but don't whine when you have to get used to competing in front of empty showgrounds, not getting any TV coverage etc.etc.
    I don't believe that serious dressage trainers and riders are very focussed on that. Fortunately.

    Are you really worried that the bleachers won't be full when you ride your test? Some people just need the applause I guess.



  9. #449
    Join Date
    Mar. 1, 2001
    Posts
    1,031

    Default

    Kareen when i have time and if i can be bothered i will pick your post apart sentence by sentence and explain where you are in my opinion utterly wrong. Right now can i just say you really have no clue about riders in international competition or the general public that come to watch and it's really tiresome to have to re hash the whole anky/sal momentary loss of control thing.



  10. #450
    Join Date
    Mar. 30, 2006
    Posts
    175

    Default

    Anybody please do what you think is best but don't whine when you have to get used to competing in front of empty showgrounds, not getting any TV coverage etc.etc
    Heck - what is there to 'get used to' about that - you have basically described the general situation at 99.99% of all dressage shows!!!!! And I don't mind one bit. While I would LOVE to expose more people to the joys of dressage, I am no longer certian that dressage show grounds are the place to do that. Too much of what is going on in the warm up requires too much explanation. And what goes on in the show ring is so redundant and simplistic that most people can't bear to watch for very long either. So, WHY are we So bloody worried about attracting an audience for dressage - just which among us is really going to benefit from these hoped for sponsors? Big prize money? Where??? More promotion? WHY?? So, I think we need to get back to our roots and remember dressage is about training - not spectators, and lets have our judging and our governing bodies make decisions based on the best training for the horses, and the riders. If someone wants to come watch, great, but they are NOT supposed to be the deciding factor in what is best for dressage - Are They???



  11. #451
    Join Date
    Jul. 12, 2006
    Posts
    1,902

    Default

    Right now can i just say you really have no clue about riders in international competition or the general public that come to watch and it's really tiresome to have to re hash the whole anky/sal momentary loss of control thing.
    Well, let's not rehash the "loss of control" episode. Let's just hash the video I posted of the warm-up (or pre-warm-up) at the Dutch Championships.

    As a member of the general public, watching that RK/HF warmup sickens me. This is something I would rather not see. This is so FUNDAMENTALLY INCORRECT, I just cannot see how knowledgable riders/horsemman/dressage people can see anything RIGHT here. Please, pro-RK/HF advocates, please tell me what is RIGHT about this "training/riding".

    What do you see when you watch this? Harmony, lightness and a happy, relaxed horse?
    *** 4 More Years ***
    *** 4 More Years ***



  12. #452
    Join Date
    Aug. 7, 2000
    Posts
    3,956

    Default

    Klaus Balkenhol does not support rollkur. Neither does Hubertus Schmidt, Kyra Kyrklund, nor countless other presenters at various GDF meeting over the years.

    If you want to perceive GDF as some kind of agenda-for-rollkur, that is your option.

    If you want to watch Ulrike Thiel doctored-video over and over, well, that is also your option.

    For $500 or so, anyone can buy a digital videocam that has shutter speed in excess of 2000/second.

    They've made movies for years about reality, technology, and the doctoring of same.

    Part of me knows that legitimizing posts by responding to them is a waste of time and air.

    Part5 of me just could not stop my fingers on the keyboard.

    sigh...



  13. #453
    Join Date
    Jul. 12, 2006
    Posts
    1,902

    Default

    If you want to watch Ulrike Thiel doctored-video over and over, well, that is also your option.
    So you are saying the video is doctored? I could post other videos, but I have a feeling there would be SOMETHING wrong with those as well.

    Are you also saying the riding in the video is not representative of RK/HF?
    *** 4 More Years ***
    *** 4 More Years ***



  14. #454
    Join Date
    Aug. 7, 2000
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    3,956

    Default

    << Are you also saying the riding in the video is not representative of RK/HF? >>


    Yes.



  15. #455
    Join Date
    Jul. 12, 2006
    Posts
    1,902

    Default

    Hmmm....how interesting. So you agree then that it is painful to watch? So this is NOT the way RK/HF (by AvG) is implemented? So, the video is doctored? How so? Doctored by whom?

    I'll be back later - I'll see if I can find some others that is more representative of RK/HF.

    I personally think it is a absolutely perfect example of HF.
    *** 4 More Years ***
    *** 4 More Years ***



  16. #456
    Join Date
    Aug. 7, 2000
    Posts
    3,956

    Default

    << So you agree then that it is painful to watch? So this is NOT the way RK/HF (by AvG) is implemented? So, the video is doctored? How so? Doctored by whom?>>


    No I do NOT agree that rollkur as a technique/tool is painful to watch.

    It can be really painful to watch someone bounce around on their horse's back and mouth, it can be really painful to watch many riders.

    Big deal.

    I like dressage as a sport. You can like whatever you like.

    As for the videos and the websites and the zealotry--I will not, not categorically be pulled into any debate on these topics. They have been done to death and then some.

    believe whahtever you like. Your perceptions are not mine. I will not convince you, and you most definitely will not convince me.




    GDF forever!

    (raising flag, hurrah hurrah)

    see how stupid that sounds?

    cheers to all,



  17. #457
    Join Date
    Jul. 12, 2006
    Posts
    1,902

    Default

    No I do NOT agree that rollkur as a technique/tool is painful to watch.
    But you say that the rider in this video is not demonstating RK/HF? You seem not to care for the picture it presents, though. Or perhaps you prefer the tender, kind way "they" describe their technique. Doesn't sound so bad then, does it. Quite a different story when viewing the "technique" in action, though.

    It can be really painful to watch someone bounce around on their horse's back and mouth, it can be really painful to watch many riders.

    Big deal
    Nice try. But I wasn't referring to her bouncing on the mouth/back (but can you really be surprised when the horse is put in that posture). I was referring to the "technique", as you probably know.

    I know, it's hard to defend such a practice when really seeing it being used.
    *** 4 More Years ***
    *** 4 More Years ***



  18. #458
    Join Date
    Jun. 7, 2001
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    2,522

    Default

    It's sad if you think being considered a group of self-centered snobs that is tortureing horses is anyhow normal or desirable or even inevitable. Very sad. No idea where you are showing but I for sure think it's quite senseless to name a show a show if there is no audience and all you are doing is some form of masturb.... *LOL*
    I for my part enjoy being part of a sport that is appreciated by the majority of people which I may say is (still...) the case where I live. Also as someone who makes a living with horses you I am looked at with admiration and respect here which I feel will fade away if we don't protect the sport from developing along the lines of figure skating. As a breeder I also find it very important to maintain our market which is difficult if more and more people are moving away from organized riding sports and towards individual tendences. This movement has gone on for a while already and was thoroughly researched by the Ypsos-Study in 2002 already. I don't imply this is caused by what has happened to dressage alone but it certainly is an enormous factor that just many people are appalled by it.



  19. #459
    Join Date
    Aug. 7, 2000
    Posts
    3,956

    Default

    <<But I wasn't referring to her bouncing on the mouth/back (but can you really be surprised when the horse is put in that posture). I was referring to the "technique", as you probably know.>>


    I have already said on another thread that there are people on BBs who feel some kind of power/satisfaction at seeing their screen name next to a post.

    I will not answer any more posts from you-I have put you on my Ignore List.

    I am answering this one only to say--the above quote from Dalfan has nothing whatsoever to do with my original post.

    As facts tend to get lost or distorted on this BB ,as in real life, just thought I would take a moment to make a statement of fract.



  20. #460
    Join Date
    Jan. 25, 2001
    Posts
    1,371

    Default

    dalfan, you crack me up. Loved how your dry humor about the bouncing back/mouth...which I think (?) that canyonoak missed and took you literally.

    Okay, back to our regularly scheduled discussion...
    "Dreams are the touchstone of our characters." Henry David Thoreau
    Touchstone Farm
    www.bytouchstonefarm.com



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