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  1. #261
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    Maybe they thought I was a freelance writer for a dressage magazine. Many writers would be contacting them this time of year. The conspiracy theory, again is not from me. Just read through the thread here if you want facts.

    But, this stuff (staff and mgt) should be easily available to the general public... even if it's non-information, any general email reply would make sense. We've gone over that ground before though, on easy access to information!

    Thank you for asking anyway. Not very professional of them, any standard "blah blah" response would have been more professional. Ever ask a politican a question and you get an entirely different answer, as if they never heard the question? So, that's why I originally nicely suggested they are too busy with the forum to give any standard "blah blah" response.

    Either way, not very high marks on their public relations to the general public.
    Last edited by sm; Nov. 16, 2006 at 09:04 PM.



  2. #262
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    Magazines get sued for quoting things wrong, don't they? Or did you "forget" that?
    Magazines OCCASIONALLY get sued SUCCESSFULLY for quoting things which are SLANDEROUS (or is it LIBELOUS).

    Editorializing (in lieu of reporting), adding one's own spin, and errors of omission are not the same thing as "quoting things wrong", and are hardly lawsuit worthy. You have an overly simplistic view of the world. Why is it that you are so willing to accept eurodressage's word as the gospel, but you don't do the same for eurobreederstour's report? Is it because eurodressage's report fits more into your vision of things, and shares your same biases, and uses a spin you either a) approve of or b) do not recognize?

    You really are trying to live up to your unflattering description in post 262, aren't you. Poor dear.

    Well, since they all speak/read/write English fluently, maybe they just saw the question and thought that you were a pot-stirrer who had some anti-Dutch/Tainted Logo/Bad Statue conspiracy theory running through your mind and decided it would be a waste of their time.
    LOL Coreene!



  3. #263
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    Jul. 27, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by sm
    But, this stuff (staff and mgt) should be easily available to the general public
    Why don't you just click on the link in the "Academy Intro" menu that says "Staff?": "THE ACADEMY STAFF includes about 20 members. The riders have produced about 20 horses from zero level to Grand Prix in the past years. In the office of the Academy, educational projects of world fame, such as the Global Dressage Forum, are organised." And then it tells you all about them and who assists Drs. Bartels in the organisation of the GDF. Visit: http://www.academybartels.com/2004/index_uk.html
    Wouldn't that be easier?

    And then once you are there on the Academy site, if you want further info on its most well-known event, the Global Dressage Forum, you can just click on a direct link to the GDF’s own site, or feel free to visit it directly at http://globaldressageforum.com and read about the GDF technical programme and the committee which now develops that programme. Just like you can read (in Dutch) about their other major event, Horse-Event, at http://www.horse-event.nl. Big events conducted by multifaceted and diverse companies often get special dedicated sites of their own, with links between the two…get it? Pretty simple, really.

    Also please don't insult the general public by implying you are it.

    lmao @ "post 262." Good one, pinecone.
    I was wondering about that curious habit...someone is seemingly oblivious to the fact that everyone else uses the handy quote feature the COTH so nicely provides.



  4. #264
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    Aug. 7, 2005
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by sm View Post
    who is condemming who here?

    It is so funny, you cannot respond intelligently so you try personal attacks. And proceed to have a meltdown -- too funny!

    And if it's a CLINIC then don't present it as a Global DISCUSSION Forum -- make up your minds. And read eurodressage, both links I posted -- both reports from 2005 and 2006 -- indicate a disappointing lack of real discussion.

    Once again from Eurodressage, because you seem to be missing the point yet again and insisting otherwise, " The absence of the top German dressage riders and trainers at the 2006 Global Dressage Forum was very striking and a great pity... "

    So glad I linked a couple of times throughout this thread to eurodressage's reports on 2005 and 2006...

    and what a stuckup 'Sour Muffin' are you? this is not name calling - you have earned this name over the last 5 pages...!
    The British Dressage Society puts on this event every year- it is high class and they way you comment makes you appear like a complete 'know-nothing' which you seemed to have proven in your navigation skills on the internet but moreover in your rude and exaggerated responses. Siegi is right- it is a waste of everyone's time- since all of us seem to have little- as we are either professional trainers or otherwise professionally engaged- while you seem to have all day posting and adding to fiction.
    Eurodressage is a great website with mostly correct information- however their 'editorials' are as tainted as Anky&SJef in your eyes or anyone else- it is just an OPINION of someone....frankly- I prefer opinions of active riders and competitors anyday- over those of armchair Marketing Experts or Internet Journalists, that haven't hit the back of a real horse in a lOOOONg time....LOL!

    Carry on admiring your trainer riding your horse- and- get the idea of me having a melt-down out of your head...I don't have meltdowns- dear- I am way tooo busy for that...
    Carry on and enjoy....



  5. #265
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    <<They must be busy with bigger priorities. Maybe when things slow down, or maybe there is a language problem with translating my english. Who knows? ))






    Perhaps Mr. Bartels is currently occupied with his wife's recovery from her serious fall and rresulting broken neck from a week or so ago.



  6. #266
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    Default Untill now

    I have read three extensive write-ups form the GDF, and received tons of eye-withness reports. However (as usually) it reads if they all have been to another forum.

    Is there (very please) a journalist in the world who is able to publish an unbiased report (CanyonOak ?) of the GDF, or do we have to smuggle in a hidden camera next year.

    Theo



  7. #267
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    Aug. 25, 2004
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    I am voting hidden camera.

    This is becoming the equivalent of a geo-political factions completely vested to their perspective. Little in life is black and white.

    I vote for a campaign against bad riders and the "r" word being old, boring news given that I think bad riders regardless of what riding system they think they are in do more damage to the horses than certain trainers that get bashed all the time.

    I am not a fan of rolkur since I think the ideals of the training scale can be accomplished without it as an extreme. I also have no idea whether Sjef had enough "feel" to pull it off, but at least when I see Anky ride, she keeps the engine (hind legs) going behind and through the back to a degree that she gets away with much more in front than most riders would because of her "feel."



  8. #268
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    I'm sorry to hear that Canyonoak, "Perhaps Mr. Bartels is currently occupied with his wife's recovery from her serious fall and rresulting broken neck from a week or so ago."

    I'll try again with GDF directly and not try to contact him, probably now sometime after the holidays. Meanwhile, best wishes and jingles to his family.


    Edited to add: I'm not interested in researching another company, Academy Bartels. That info is clear, beautifully written, and I visited that weeks and weeks ago. Mentioning here just so you know (hoping you know) I did read your posts regarding academybartels.com. I'm sure he is a remarkable man and continued success to him. My focus is the entity GDF -- funny it should be, this is a GDF thread.

    This, written in 2004 for Academy Bartels, is supposed to be an answer for GDF 2006? On http://www.academybartels.com/2004/index_uk.html, "The Horse Academy Foundation is now supported by the European Union Funds, such as Leaderplus and the SRE EU Fund. "

    Personal attacks (which is really amusing), temper tantrams and meltdowns, then followed up by a superior attitude to be expected: ROTFLMAO
    Last edited by sm; Nov. 18, 2006 at 11:51 AM.



  9. #269
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    Default

    nice try playing the victim but once again you failed to read for comprehension. What part of the phrase "the Horse Academy Foundation" NOT BEING THE SAME AS the phrase "Academy Bartels" do you not understand? It's not confusing to anyone else. Nor is it a secret. It's common knowledge that the Bartels have initiated and are involved in many things. Everyone knows that. Par for the course when you've earned such a reputation. The Horse Academy Foundation is a foundation that conducts research projects. And what they choose to research is up to their board, a board which does NOT run Academy Bartels or any of its activities. You don't have to read the findings or give them any credence if you don't feel what they do is credible. Again, a separate entity from Academy Bartels. As is self-evident from its name. Duh.

    Further to your obvious delusions that there is some kind of rollkur 'special interest group' there is no such group. There are just People Actually Involved in International Sport, which makes them stakeholders in it. You are not one of those people. And they generally do not share your opinion, with few exceptions. And whilst they do listen to reasoned, rational criticisms, even from non-stakeholders in international dressage (as I know from my own experiences corresponding on and discussing my own criticisms with the various powers that be on countless issues over the years), they certainly aren't going to listen to your variety of irrational, inane bullshit, as they've already heard enough. And that's why no one is really listening anymore, since the "anti" crowd has essentially lost all credibility with this sort of behaviour. Shame if a really great opportunity to have some ongoing critical dialogues within the FEI about the general direction of equestrianism (all disciplines) is lost because of this sort of ridiculous nonsense.

    And the sponsors of each year's GDF are published. On. The. Website. Just like the tripartite programme committee is published, and was when it was first formed, one rep from each of the Forum's constituencies - - I'll give you a hint - - riders, trainers, judges!! Take a guess!! Of course Kyra Kirklund was added for 2006 so that makes 4 plus Drs. Bartels who obviously runs the whole thing, both organisational and technical. All obvious, well established, published, non secret, common knowledge. How do I know that? I read the published information. Why won't you?

    Quote Originally Posted by sm
    Edited to add: I'm not interested in researching another company, Academy Bartels…My focus is the entity GDF -- funny it should be, this is a GDF thread.
    apparently you still fail to comprehend that the GDF is not a company, it's an event. Academy Bartels IS the company, dumbshit. In other news, 2+2=4.

    And once again the hypocrisy. There are no temper tantrums or meltdowns, idiot. Just one ignoramus with a pre-formed agenda that keeps crashing and burning but obviously suffers from some sort of delusions of self-importance and authority. You have shown your ignorance over and over again. You are being ridiculed because you earned it by making false statements in a public forum that you can't back up, and refusing to respond to questions as to why you didn't simply read the published information instead of making false claims. Your only tactics (and it is entirely transparent and quite pathetic) are to play the victim, to parrot things back and try to project your own bullshit onto others because apparently you can't formulate your own thoughts or any defense as to why you refused to read the information. Your claims have been repeatedly shown to be unsubstantiated yet you refuse to retract your statements or edit your posts to remove the material. Normally forums have rules against this due to the potential legal ramifications; apparently the COTH does not.



  10. #270
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    Sep. 17, 2003
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    Just one ignoramus with a pre-formed agenda that keeps crashing and burning but obviously suffers from some sort of delusions of self-importance and authority.
    Academy Bartels IS the company, dumbshit.
    Wow. This is pretty low.
    Proud Rubenesquestrian



  11. #271
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    a natural consequence of maligning someone's professional reputation in a public forum with no basis in fact, and refusing to retract/edit (showing intent rather than simple negligence).



  12. #272
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    Quote:
    Just one ignoramus with a pre-formed agenda that keeps crashing and burning but obviously suffers from some sort of delusions of self-importance and authority.

    Quote:
    Academy Bartels IS the company, dumbshit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Somantu View Post
    Wow. This is pretty low.
    I agree, Somantu. Can we get back to discussion without the name calling? It's a bit of a turn-off. (And I hope people who write such nasty things get banned, no matter what "side" they're on.) It sure doesn't help people see each other's viewpoints...most likely does exactly the opposite!
    "Dreams are the touchstone of our characters." Henry David Thoreau
    Touchstone Farm
    www.bytouchstonefarm.com



  13. #273
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    a natural consequence of maligning someone's professional reputation in a public forum with no basis in fact, and refusing to retract/edit (showing intent rather than simple negligence).
    like I said, when you publish false statements that disparage a person's reputation, you can expect to be subjected to whatever comes your way (ridicule, insults, legal action, etc.), because you are the person who has done something that on most BBs is not allowed. So you get what you get.

    I don't normally insult anyone, but sm crossed the line a long time ago, and has refused to correct the false statements which imply impropriety about one of the most noteworthy figures in all equestrianism (any discipline). Someone's status, obviously, does not make them immune to criticism. But statements have to be factual; if you can't back up what you say, you can't say it on most BBs. The statements sm repeatedly makes are FALSE and have been demonstrated so. If she would simply stop continuing to state falsehoods and inappropriate insinuations over and over again, she would not continue to be insulted. Ideally, she would also retract her false statements, and edit her posts accordingly.

    btw, I'm not on any "side". I just have a problem with potentially defamatory (by virtue of their being false and potentially damaging to a person's reputation) BB posts. and your point is taken and I will gladly refrain from any future 'name calling', per se. But by the same token, sm should probably be accountable to retract/edit her false allegations, and refrain from continuing to make them.
    Last edited by Ellie K; Nov. 18, 2006 at 03:36 PM.



  14. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellie K View Post
    like I said, when you publish false statements that disparage a person's reputation, you can expected to be subjected to whatever comes your way (ridicule, insults, legal action, etc.), because you are the person who has done something that on most BBs is not allowed. So you get what you get.

    I don't normally insult anyone...and your point is taken and I will gladly refrain from any future 'name calling', per se. But by the same token, sm should probably be accountable to retract/edit her false allegations, and refrain from continuing to make them.
    I can understand your point, but when it happens, we all need to show restraint or answer with humor. (I have to remember that myself because I have certainly "slipped" into this direction more times than I want to remember because someone made me "mad!")

    And now, back to our reguarly scheduled program.... :-)
    "Dreams are the touchstone of our characters." Henry David Thoreau
    Touchstone Farm
    www.bytouchstonefarm.com



  15. #275
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    Ellie - sorry there is never any excuse for rude unacceptable behavior. Name calling falls under that catagory. If you can't manage to talk without insults, maybe you need to take a break, and not rationalize your actions with a justification that she 'asked for it'. Sorry you think this is acceptable behavior, it says a lot about who you are, and how you conduct yourself, and even more, it talks about your personal ethics. And you say the Anti Hyperflexion crowd has lost credibility?????



  16. #276
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    Jan. 23, 2004
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    Sorry to interrupt the mud-slinging.

    I read the articles at EuroDressage and they note, about the German team not being there...."

    ""The Dutch rider and trainer were prepared to publicly put their neck on the line by showing their training methods at the forum and, regrettably, the detractors were not there to defend their opinion."

    And yet, from another article about the same clinic, Mr Janssen says this...

    ""“I don’t talk to selective hearers,” Janssen said.""

    So, taking that into account, perhaps the Germans thought it was a waste of their time, as they obviously weren't going to get any answers?

    And...Sticking their necks out by showing thei training methods at a public forum? I'm sure that most of the in-the-know people have already seen lots of this trainng technique at shows, etc.

    And, with Mr. Janssen not talking to "“selective hearers,” IE: Anyone who doesn't agree with him....Then, really...What was the big risk?

    Ask a question he doesn't like and he just won't answer. Problem solved.



  17. #277
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    since the "anti" crowd has essentially lost all credibility
    Hardly. Everyday more people are made aware of this "training" method. That's a good thing, especially for the horses,imho.

    statements sm repeatedly makes are FALSE and have been demonstrated so.
    What statements are you referring to, and how have they been demonstrated to be false? Because AvG says so? Obviously, more research needs to be done to determine the harm. And when the powers that be say "only" experienced trainers should engage in "hyperflexion", to me there's a problem. Nothing "classical" or "right" about the training,imho.

    A wild question on my part. Are you training/riding using the AvG training methods?

    But statements have to be factual; if you can't back up what you say, you can't say it on most BBs
    You must be kidding, right?

    And your rude language is, shall we say, less than classy. No excuse.

    And Cinder makes a good point about "selective questions" that Sjef won't answer.
    *** 4 More Years ***
    *** 4 More Years ***



  18. #278
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    Oct. 25, 2006
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    The 'question' that wouldn't be answered was basically just an insult question.

    In the same situation I wouldn't have answered it either. It was designed to be inflamatory and shouldn't have been given the dignaty of an answer.

    Whether you agree with S and A or not - they have put themselves up to be open to questions. This was very apparent at the BD Convention in Britain when they insisted on questions from the audience every 10 minutes or so.

    They answered every sensible question with a sensible answer. Whether you agree with the answer is another thing but they did answer questions and wanted to.



  19. #279
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    ... and, you can talk to anybody who attended this forum and they will tell you that the lady from the German magazine was just WAY out of line with the way she phrased her question (sort of like SM - with her mind already made up and just being very bullish about it). I wouldn't blame anybody for not wanting to get into that game because there is nothing good to be gained from it.

    And Ellie, as I said before, you are casting pearls before swine! These folks will never listen to facts because they have their own agenda - one of hate and ignorance. In the end, the only way to deal with these people is to totally ignore them and then watch them fizzle out in all their self-righteousness and stupidity.

    Groetjes,
    Siegi
    Siegi Belz
    www.stalleuropa.com
    2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
    Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.



  20. #280
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    They answered every sensible question with a sensible answer
    Sensible to who? A&S? The point, exactly. Only questions they like.


    one of hate and ignorance
    Really? Why throw out such hyperbole?? Is it really necessary? I can only base my experience with what I have personally seen (blown minds and unridable horses with "trainers" trying to emulate S&A's "training". Classical and compassionate training DOES NOT result in a ruined horse) I just think it's plain ugly and I think harmful to the horse (both mentally and physically, although I have no proof to back up my belief, but neither do A&J). And I have seen video of AvG and a ringful of AvG wannabes doing hyperflexion for more than 2-3 minutes.

    My question; How can ANY good, descent, classical, right training method NOT be for everyone to follow. Why only the "experts" should train like this?
    *** 4 More Years ***
    *** 4 More Years ***



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