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  1. #1

    Thumbs down Proposed Rule Changes

    I'm really disturbed by the proposed rule changes for side saddle.

    ISSO (International Side Saddle Organization) has proposed several rule changes.

    The major change is that ISSO wants to become the national affiliate governing side saddle.

    We don't need them. We don't need yet another required membership fee. Side saddle is not a separate discipline. We do what everyone else in our discipline does - just in a different saddle. If we show hunters - we are governed by the hunter rules and affiliate. If we show dressage - we are governed by dressage rules and affiliate, and so on.

    ISSO - by their own admission - is in financial distress. They don't get to use non member side saddle riders to fill their coffers.

    Please - you don't have to be a side saddle rider to oppose the changes ISSO wants. Let the USEF know we don't need the bureaucracy and expense of yet another organization.

    The tracking numbers involved are 185-06, SS101-136 and 198-06, General Rule 929.



  2. #2
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    Hey!

    Like I told you at the show last night.... I'll gladly comment AGAINST the Side Saddle rule proposals if you comment FOR the Federal Fraud rule proposals! Deal?!??



  3. #3
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    Deal!

    (Not really as a trade off, but because I back the fraud rule proposals)



  4. #4
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    Yeah I agree.... I'm not commenting against the side saddle just because you asked. I'm doing it because they are rediculous!!



  5. #5
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    I just looked at the proposed rule change, and it is a MUCH bigger change than just another fee.

    The proposal is to set up a COMPLETELY SEPARATE "side saddle" division.

    NOT part of the Hunter Division, Saddlebred Division, Western Division, or any other division.

    There is NO Corresponding rule change proposal to take the Side Saddle classes out of the Hunter division (no proposed rule changes to HU121).

    The proposed rule change has all sorts of internal problems.

    Just as an example, it is setting up a SEPARATE division, and then says things like "(Exception: Horses in the Saddlebred Division...". a class can't be in two divisions at the same time. Either it is "Saddlebred Division" or "Side Saddle Division". Not both. Clearly what they MEAN is "Saddlebred classes within the Side Saddle Division" or "horses also showing in the Saddlebred Division". But they are going to have to fix that before it will pass.

    Another example, under "Hunter" part it says
    SS113 Qualifying Gaits
    1. WALK: A four beat gait, straight, true and flat-footed. Regular and unconstrained with good reach.
    2. EXTENDED TROT: A two beat gait that is bold, energetic, balanced and ground covering with definite lengthening of stride. This should result in an increase in speed without a sense of racing or scurrying. The mouth must remain light and the horse must demonstrate complete acceptance of control without resistance at all times.
    3. CANTER: A three beat gait, even, smooth, unhurried, correct and straight on both leads.
    4. HAND GALLOP: May be requested by the judge. (Consult breed specific or Hunter division rules as applicable for Hand Gallop requirements) The hand gallop is performed with a long, free, ground-covering stride. The amount of ground covered may vary between and among horses due to difference in natural length of stride. A decided lengthening of stride should be shown while the horse remains controlled, mannerly, correct and straight on both leads.
    Again, we have the problem that it is trying to be in two divisions at once. How do you decide WHICH breed/discipline rule applies? Each division needs to have its OWN rules. (For instance, the Arabian Division has a very detailed list, for Arabian Dressage classes, of exactly which parts of the dressage rules apply and which don't. Vague general statements about other division rules won't cut it.)

    But more importantly, since when do Ladies Side Saddle Hunters show in at an "extrended trot"?

    I don't think you have to worry much about this rule passing this time, but certainly send in your comments, so they don't just fine tune it.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  6. #6
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    Hmmmmmmmm.... Excellent points there Janet....

    Since I'm not an active competitor in SS anymore (though I once was), I think I'd loff it if some of those like Sidesaddlerider who ARE actively competing would weigh in w/ their thoughts...

    I can see where they are trying to go with this: we all know USEF is trying to step back from all the disciplines and become more of an umbrella organization - they WANT another organization between us and them; hence shoving USHJA down our throats. But my gut instinct is to side with the OP. I just need to go thru & read the whole proposal & would loff to hear from our active SS riders how Y'ALL think this will work... or won't!

    OP, maybe you could modify the thread title to mention "sidesaddle" so that the SS riders here see it?

    Oh and Janet - I don't believe the Ladies' Hunter SS classes show at extended trot, but the SS Hunter HACK classes do.
    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief



  7. #7
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    Janet - thanks for the analysis - you make some excellent points.

    As for the extended trot - ummm...at USEF recognised shows - never.

    I'm also a bit upset about the HOTY awards changes - they want to include COSTUME!



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    Quote Originally Posted by MyGiantPony View Post
    I'm also a bit upset about the HOTY awards changes - they want to include COSTUME!
    MGP: if you're going to mount an effective campaign against this, you need to bear in mind that SS is cross-disciplinary. The Arab people are high on those costume classes, they're BIG money classes for those folks.

    I'm only halfway thru reading the proposed changes but so far, I don't think they are especially well thought out, and I don't see the necessity.
    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief



  9. #9
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    I was given a packet with the proposed rule changes yesterday. I have not read through it entirely (I will tonight), but what I have read, I am firmly against.

    The sidesaddle division is a HUNTER division. It is not a seperate division unto itself. Simply look at the Championship title: Ladies Sidesaddle HUNTER Champion is the official name. I show in the hunters, on my hunter...and I do it either astride or aside. There is no difference, except that there is a distinguishment into the "category" I am competing in, just as there is between the A/O, 1st Year Greens, Regulars, etc.

    ISSO is *not* a show-oriented group. They are a sidesaddle-in-general group, that more actively promotes NON-competitive activities than competitive. Why would I want an organization like that to govern my competititon?

    Also, let's take a look at the class that they sponsored at Harrisburg. The Ladies Sidesaddle Pleasure class. Hmm, there is LADIES in the title, isn't there? Then please tell me why a jr. was riding a pony in the class last night? Who then was out of control in the middle of the class, had to be cut off and stopped by her mother, and then excused from the ring? And the mother was the former president of ISSO, who has been ACTIVELY promoting letting juniors into the division for years. Now, since ISSO was the one sponsoring this class, and entries into it had to be ISSO members (and believe me they checked!), please tell me how at a USEF "AA" rated show a clear violation of the rules was allowed, by that proposed-governing body????? Do I really want a group that can't even follow the most simplistic of requirements (open to ladies who are no longer eligible to compete as a junior) in the ONE class a year they sponsor?

    So, no, at this time, what with the proposed changes I've seen so far, I am absolutely AGAINST them.

    I'm sure I'll have more to comment after tonight when I've read through them all.
    Cherry Blossom Farm - Show & Field Hunters, Side Saddles



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Admiral View Post
    MGP: if you're going to mount an effective campaign against this, you need to bear in mind that SS is cross-disciplinary. The Arab people are high on those costume classes, they're BIG money classes for those folks.
    Very true - but shouldn't HOTY be based on the performance of the horse, not what the rider is wearing?

    Then again, leave things as they are, the Arabian people can give their year end awards as they see fit.

    Edited to add - the proposed rules mention Period and Fantasy Costume. I just can't see something that has entries like The Fairy of the Lake as anything more than a fun class - not deserving of the title Horse of the Year.



  11. #11
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    Oh, trust me, now that I've finished reading it, I totally agree with you. This is wack.

    Anyone who knows sidesaddle folks in other disciplines may want to crosspost this to the relevant forums. I just alerted the ASB peeps.
    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief



  12. #12
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    LOL - WA - I'm guessing you read the Fantasy Costume paragraph before I edited my post?

    Thanks for giving the ASB folks a heads up.



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyGiantPony View Post
    LOL - WA - I'm guessing you read the Fantasy Costume paragraph before I edited my post?
    Bingo.

    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief



  14. #14
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    Oh and Janet - I don't believe the Ladies' Hunter SS classes show at extended trot, but the SS Hunter HACK classes do.
    As I read it, "extended trot" is the ONLY trot permitted in the hunter classes.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  15. #15
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    They did not try to take over eventing as well. Do they not know that there are side saddle eventers?
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  16. #16
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    It is 'just' seperate division OR actual rules of judging SS?????

    And yes there is/can be extended trot, et al (in dressage...through GP).
    I.D.E.A. yoda



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ideayoda View Post
    It is 'just' seperate division OR actual rules of judging SS?????

    And yes there is/can be extended trot, et al (in dressage...through GP).
    Yes, of course there "can be" an extended trot.

    But what I was objecting to is that it says that the gaits for side saddle hunter under saddle are "walk, extended trot, canter, hand gallop".
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  18. #18
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    Janet - Now that I've read the whole thing, I'm confuzzled as to where in the proposal we're discussing: are you looking at Subchapter SS-3 of 185-06? Sorry...
    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief



  19. #19
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    I am looking at
    SUB-CHAPTER SS3 HUNTER PLEASURE AND HUNTER

    In particular
    SS113 Qualifying Gaits

    Then in SS117 it just says "walk, trot, canter", so it is internally contradictory.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  20. #20
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    can someone draft a proposed template for comments....so we can customize it but not keep reinventing the wheel?

    Thanks



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