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  1. #41
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    Sep. 25, 2005
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    Is it possible that the OP was just shocked that the farm wasn't another Hilltop or Iron Spring? I don't think any of us would ever have facilities like that, and in fact most big name breeders don't even have facilities like that.

    Liz's website is absolutely top-notch, professional, and first class. I have admired her site and stallions for years. Maybe the OP was just expecting to see a Hilltop or Iron Spring type facility based on the first-class website and stallions? Maybe she was a bit shocked to see that top-notch stallions can live at ordinary places?



  2. #42
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    Oct. 15, 2005
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    Chesapeake, Virginia
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    Thumbs down And you are????

    I do not know any of the parties involved however it just burns me when someone posts something like the OP did and does not identify themselves!!! I seriously doubt the OP would say something like this to the farm's owner!!! Cowardly behavior Moho....just plain cowardly!!

    Debbie Hanson



  3. #43
    Join Date
    Feb. 11, 2002
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    So maybe the house needs a coat of paint?

    I would much rather buy from a breeder who makes the HORSES number one priority than one that has a spectacular house and top of the line barn and doesn't care for their horses or is a real snot to deal with.

    If having the babies outside to grow up in the most optimum conditions for their health and development means they have some mud on them in the rainy season of many areas of the country, so be it. I think what you posted took a lot of BA**S! Maybe your trainer is jealous, and misery loves company so she is trying to make you question the credentials of a very successful breeder.



  4. #44
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    Feb. 3, 2004
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    North Carolina
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    I've been waiting for Moho to respond all day and she hasn't (pardon me if "she" is actually a "he"). Perhaps she has not had an opportunity to log on since her OP and subsequent post were last night. I notice Moho is either a relatively new poster or just doesn't post much.....but regardless, I do hope Moho does come back and clarify her post and/or her intentions.

    On the best of days I promise some could find fault at my farm and wonder what's going on....heck, we even have an old outhouse still standing in the middle of one of the pastures....quite quaint to say the least and is a real conversation piece ! Our horses aren't spotless and neither are the barns and house.....but we're all happy, super healthy and very safe.



  5. #45
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    Sep. 26, 2006
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    I am so SORRY that my OP came off as rude. It seems like my naivete and curiousness came across as mean, when I was really just trying to start a conversation.

    I guess I was wrong to assume that my love for the bloodline and Silverwood's reputation would trump any questioning I might have had.

    Please note that I did not realize what a breeding farm was like before I drove past, did not mean to suggest that the place was unsafe for the horses and certainly didn't want to suggest that the website lied... I was simply putting my experience out there to get FEEDBACK.

    If this bulletin board is not about feedback and constructive thoughts I will surely go away... especially since so many of the posts just assumed I was trying to be mean and were unbelievably bitchy in response.

    I will assume from the responses that no one is even reading my follow-up posts, so I feel a little silly even posting this.

    Jeez!



  6. #46
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    Feb. 3, 2004
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    North Carolina
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    Hi Moho....I indeed HAVE been reading your follow up posts and only found one other post other than the original....perhaps I missed others and I apologize if that's the case.

    Thank you for your response. We've all been blasted at one time or another after posting something on this forum. I did read your post many times throughout the morning to see if I read a different "tone" and each time it sounded really degrading.



  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jul. 17, 2002
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    Redlands, CA
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    Moho,
    I cannot imagine what kind of conversation you expected to have regarding your "impressions" of Silverwood. You said you were driving past. Gee, I hoped you would be 10 years old ...

    At least you saw the strong reaction you got and you can learn from it.



  8. #48
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    Jun. 14, 2006
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    here, there, everywhere
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    I have seen Art Deco up close some years ago and he gave me the impression of being well over 16 hands...but who gives a crap if he isn't? I mean honest to GOD...what is the stupid fixation people have with 16 hands?
    I wanted only to respond to this comment.

    The point is not whether or not people have a "fixation" with "16 hands". The point is truth in advertising. The point is that too many people misrepresent the sizes of their horses, making the horses "bigger" and the ponies "smaller", to the point where it's hard to believe anyone any more.

    If a horse is 16 hands, call it 16 hands. And let the buyer or potential breeder decide if a 16 hand horse is what they want. Don't call it 16.2 because you think you'll have a larger target market.

    My comments, by the way, are only in response to the remark quoted above. I have no idea how big Art Deco is. This is not about the size of Art Deco. This is about false advertising, and the poster who says "who gives a crap" if a horse isn't the size it is advertised to be. I "give a crap", as do my clients. Every sane reasonable person should "give a crap" whether or not a horse is represented truthfully.



  9. #49
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    Sep. 15, 2006
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    North of the Frozen Tundra, but I can see it from my house.
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    All points taken. Can we move on now?



  10. #50
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    Mar. 28, 2006
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    All points taken. Can we move on now?

    of course not....I am sure there are more who want to pile on!
    "When you think you don't need a coach ...then you're in trouble" Don Imus 2012



  11. #51
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    Nov. 2, 2001
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    I haven't read anything, but as it was suggested, the owner is a COTH member, *Pintofoal* and she posts on the breeding forum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.



  12. #52
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    Dec. 12, 2002
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    Virginia
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    I have been to the farm and see Art Deco and not sure where this poster is coming from nor do I think it is really possible to see the barn from the road.

    Regardless, looks like any ole breeding barn around these parts. I would be much happier, if I didn't like the look of a place, that the money is going into the breeding and horses than frivilous things like flowers and fresh paint.



  13. #53
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    Nov. 23, 2001
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    Catharpin, Virginia
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    Oh crap, Pied Piper. Does that mean that you didn't like my gardens and fresh paint ...while my stallions were perfectly groomed for any old passer by? And the babies and mares were tucked into their mahogony and brass appointed stalls? (BIG GRIN!)

    Clearly, this is a really terrible thread. Liz Hall has been a pioneer and champion of sport horse breeding. We all know it and admire it and emulate her professionalism. I know Liz, not well, but my contact with her has been such that I feel the need to defend the OP's "allegations".

    The OP was pretty ballsy to post what he/she did. It was ridiculous and I'm so glad to see the response to it from all here.

    Had she kept up on sporthorse news (especially about her love of Art Deco) she would have known that Silverwood suffered a terrible force of nature that would have closed most farms.

    But regardless of that fact (and the OP's insensitivity)...ya know, I've probably lost breedings to people who stop in unannounced, despite the sign that says "by appointment only" and that I can instinctively tell are SO disappointed that Argosy or Boleem are hanging out like any other horse.

    "Catching them" , having had an extremely wonderful roll in the mud and and living the life that is needed for horses to be healthy, seems to be disappointing to them. Couple that with babies who are out in the pasture growing up, getting what they need AS HORSES, seems to disappoint them, regardless of the fact that they are seeing sound and healthy individuals.

    To tell you the truth, I don't want to breed my stallion to these types of people.

    Brangelina and TomKat "stargazer types" sometimes encroach in the horse world, I guess. The OP seems to be that type by posting such an inflammatory and provocative thread. Yeesh...

    Liz, if you're reading this thread, I hope you know you have a lot of admirers among breeders and true horsemen. Ignore this.



  14. #54
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    Feb. 1, 2003
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    Best of golf and equines, NC
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    I see the OP’s post as being more about the disparity between the OP’s expectations and reality. The truth is that we all try to put our best foot forward with our websites, some are more skilled than others. Our websites are advertising… and like all advertisers, we only show the good stuff. We don’t show the photos of what really goes on at a breeding farm. Oh god, I hate to even list the photos we could all show… of what foaling is actually like; of what we all look like during and just after foaling; of what breeding is actually like; of what stalls look like first thing in the morning… for that matter, of what I look like first thing in the morning.

    Geez- O- Pete, even Martha Stewart with a full time staff of 50 couldn’t keep everything spiffy 100% of the time. It just isn't possible. We are all human, and unless we're on some sort of chemical accelerant (speed), we can only work 8-10 hours a day… things aren’t gonna be perfect every time someone drives by. Hell, in my life, I'd settle for perfection once a month. At some point we all have to accept the line between what we’d love to see our farm look like and what we can actually keep up with.

    Still, I can see where the OP might have a certain expectation… that is all it was really… an expectation… and maybe there was a bit of a disconnect between the OP’s expectations and reality. That might simply reflect really good advertising. No need to jump all over this OP person. How about we set the person up as a breeder… and in a few years we can all drive by the OP’s farm… and then come and post about what we see. Things can look a lot different from the inside looking out.

    One last thought: maybe, just maybe… the OP suffers from the delusion that people get rich standing stallions and breeding horses.. just typing that sentence has made me laugh so hard I can’t see the key board.



  15. #55
    Join Date
    Dec. 12, 2002
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    Virginia
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    Sid

    Of course not! I LOVE your place! Shot I could live at your place myself, just snuggle up in one of those big stalls. But, and then I am ducking and running, I do believe I saw a little mud on a horse while I was there. Just a smidge on one of the babies who was enthralled that there were guests! Oh wait, in my defense, I was there in the dead of winter so no flowers!!!! But the footing, on crap the amazing footing in that indoor. You could tour the US giving talks on proper footing.

    I think I was thinking of Fairview's as well. Just down home, comfortable, place to be at.

    I get the impression that the OP expected the barns to look like what you would see on the Middleburg Stable Tour.



  16. #56
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    Sep. 25, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cartier View Post
    I see the OP’s post as being more about the disparity between the OP’s expectations and reality. The truth is that we all try to put our best foot forward with our websites, some are more skilled than others. Our websites are advertising… and like all advertisers, we only show the good stuff. We don’t show the photos of what really goes on at a breeding farm. Oh god, I hate to even list the photos we could all show… of what foaling is actually like; of what we all look like during and just after foaling; of what breeding is actually like; of what stalls look like first thing in the morning… for that matter, of what I look like first thing in the morning.

    Still, I can see where the OP might have a certain expectation… that is all it was really… an expectation… and maybe there was a bit of a disconnect between the OP’s expectations and reality. That might simply reflect really good advertising. No need to jump all over this OP person. How about we set the person up as a breeder… and in a few years we can all drive by the OP’s farm… and then come and post about what we see. Things can look a lot different from the inside looking out.
    That's kind of where my posts were pointed too. I didn't really read it as a rip on the breeder, but rather as a shock that the barn wasn't what the OP had expected to see. Much like my experience in visiting McWhirters. I wasn't critical of them at all, but I was genuinely shocked that it was not what I had expected. And the only reason I expected it is because their website is so fantastic, top-notch and professional. The photos and stallion video they sent were incredible. Extremely professional and carefully poised and positioned so that no garden hoses or muddy paddocks were shown. And that's just fine. Every one of us has those muddy lots and clutter. I don't believe any horse person truly expects breeding farms to be 110% spiffy and perfect. It's just that that's the impression you get when viewing their spectacular advertising material.

    I used to have a large website (but not horse specific) and I only put the very best of the best photos on there. Why would you post the photo with the broken down haywagon in the background?? Why would you post the photo of the beautiful chestnut horse with a fallen tree in the background? No, you pose your animals in such a fashion that they are flattered, your farm is flattered, and your website is flattered. But the truth is - ALL of us have junk, clutter, mud, etc. even if we don't show it on our website, and that can be a shock to people.

    I even photo shopped crap out of ocassional photos to make more appealing pictures! You know, the neighbor's kid running naked through the picture, or the unrolled hose laying in the lawn. Things like that make your site look less tidy or professional, and people do NOT typically show those photos.

    But if somebody stopped by at any given time, THEN they would see the broken down haywagon, or the stack of round bales that went bad, or the burning pile. Those things are unflattering, and downright embarassing, and SURE wouldn't make it to the website!

    So yeh - I can definitely see where people might be shocked or surprised with separating website from relatity.



  17. #57
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    Nov. 23, 2001
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    Catharpin, Virginia
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    Cartier...your post cracked me up. AMEN!



  18. #58
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    Sep. 25, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinecone View Post
    I wanted only to respond to this comment.

    The point is not whether or not people have a "fixation" with "16 hands". The point is truth in advertising.

    ....This is about false advertising, and the poster who says "who gives a crap" if a horse isn't the size it is advertised to be. I "give a crap", as do my clients. Every sane reasonable person should "give a crap" whether or not a horse is represented truthfully.
    Agreed 100% with this, even though its not related to the original topic. I have since found out that my mare's sire was just BARELY 15 hands with shoes on, when he was advertised as 15.2+. Well, that 2+ inches means alot. Now my horse is topped out at 14.3 and a smidge when I was hoping she'd at least hit 15 or 15.1. So yeah, I'm pissed. I'm pissed that the breeder measured the stallion with a cloth tape standing on the grass. It's not the end of the world, but when you stand a stallion, you have an obligation to supply CORRECT facts. When I saw the stallion in person, I did question the size and was assured it was correct. Out of the blue I got an email from the stallion owner 3 years later asking how my filly was doing. We chatted a bit and I mentioned she was perfect in every way, but I was hoping she'd get a bit taller though. That's when I got the "Ooooh yeah. Well, I should tell you.........."



  19. #59
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    Jan. 13, 2003
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    Something doesn't fit here people.

    The OP referenced her opinion on Art Deco's height relative to what is stated in the advertising. This implies she saw him in person. I know for a fact from speaking with Liz Hall that Art Deco DOES NOT GET TURNED OUT - he hates it. If anything she will put him in the indoor.

    SO - did the OP actually invite herself/himself onto the property to look around? And then not speak with the owner before posting this reference to "run down house/etc.".

    Come on OP - you can try to re-write this but it just doesn't fit together.



  20. #60
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    Jan. 13, 2003
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    Something doesn't fit here. The OP was driving by and makes rather negative opinions about the condition of someone's property - a business as well. This person clearly never spoke to Liz Hall about this before posting here.

    She/he further references the height of Art Deco in person relative to advertised which implies - personal observation. Art Deco doesn't get turned out much - if ever - he goes in the indoor. I know this from Liz - he just plain hates turn out.

    So! How did this OP see the horse? Did she invite herself/himself onto the property - when people weren't there and make assessments - leave and head to the computer and keyboard to post these comments?

    Sorry - it just doesn't fit.



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