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  1. #41
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    Some of these judges need to see a horse a liberty to know what some of these moves are actually supposed to look like -- for example, the passage, and the extended trot. Some of these top horses produce beautiful passage, and others just do not have enough impulsion. And extended trots where the front end is moving real big and the hind legs half as much should be severely penalized.

    I have not seen one of Anky's performances since the Athens Olympics games. How much better are her performances now? I thought it was a joke that she won the gold in Athens -- her horse couldn't even perform piaffe and he looked very tense throughout the test.



  2. #42
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    Come on Fiona - "TENS - it's a multiple word" are rare. Who in Grand Prix has scored multiple 10's in a championship ride? Please let me know the where- since you feel this is happening. Read what I wrote.

    You all can have Anky and her rides - being there and seeing it makes me worried that that is where we are heading with dressage training. Tense, tight horses with technical correctness but absolutely NO BEAUTY to the ride and no softness in the body at all. It's movements on demand with little or no beauty and magic to it.

    And those commentators can say whatever they want about mistakes - but even the scoring DURING all the rides was at times weird. You have 5 judges and marks would range from 5's up to 8's and not because of where they were seated. I thought LInda Zang was at times looking somewhere else.

    And the buzz really was that the gray mare was not his top horse but his 3rd horse - and she held her own in a stadium filled to overflowing with screaming people and thrilled everyone watching and her rider.

    And Aunt Esther and Diamond Girl - if this is only about what the judges score and the riders think - then DON'T SELL TICKETS. Why charge people money to watch if you feel they should just sit, watch, clap and shut up??? It's a spectator sport - HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Every single person watching has the right to have an opinion whether they hold a judges card or not - you two seem to be the thought police - deciding who is worthy to comment or have any input - this is a DISCUSSION BOARD isn't it?
    If you don't like the thread - don't read it.

    I don't waste time on Anky - I just feel badly for the tense horses. But took tremendous JOY in watching many of the rides - that may have fell somewhat short of the medals but showed a horse and rider that were obviously connected to each other and their magic was contagious and had world class rides.



  3. #43
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    http://www.equisearch.com/horses_rid...rldcup_052703/

    i'll try and find more of Rusty's scores but he wasn't/isn't the only horse i've seen in international competition that got/gets them. so yeah, plural

    http://www.dressageunltd.com/aachen0...os/0630gpk.htm

    http://www.dressageunltd.com/jerez20.../bestmoves.htm

    there are plenty more examples.These people are awesome riders with amazing horses.



  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ise@ssl View Post
    You all can have Anky and her rides - being there and seeing it makes me worried that that is where we are heading with dressage training. Tense, tight horses with technical correctness but absolutely NO BEAUTY to the ride and no softness in the body at all. It's movements on demand with little or no beauty and magic to it.
    I feel the same way. I watched the rides several times now and Salinero just looks so mechanical...so tense to me also...the uneven jerky passage steps, the lack of a halt, and a number of other signs too numerous to mention. He never looks truly relaxed or soft in the back to me.

    It is so odd that we all see the same ride so differently.



  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by grayarabpony View Post
    Some of these judges need to see a horse a liberty to know what some of these moves are actually supposed to look like -- for example, the passage, and the extended trot. Some of these top horses produce beautiful passage, and others just do not have enough impulsion. And extended trots where the front end is moving real big and the hind legs half as much should be severely penalized.
    I’m sure that ALL of these judges have seen horses passaging and extending the trot at liberty and know exactly what it looks like. However, the passage, piaffe, extended trot and so on shown under saddle IS different than that displayed at liberty; and should be since the horse now has the burden of performing the movements under a rider’s weight.

    With that said, what you need to recognize is that no horse can perform every movement to a 9 or 10, no matter how talented or well trained. Each horse will have several things it excels in and several weaker areas. The GP tests are rigorous, and they test collection, extension, flexibility, obedience, and so on. The horse has to be strong in all areas. This is why you don’t see a lot of baroque (Lipizzans, Andalusians, etc.) competing at GP. They are the masters of collection but fall short in the area of extension. However, they are at the top of the heap as demo horses because of their collected work and ability to do the airs.

    The riders of the top, international, GP horses know their horses’ strengths and weaknesses and do their utmost to show off the strengths while finessing the weaknesses. I think a lot of people have this misconception that a GP horse should be able to do every single movement nearly perfectly, and that’s just not reasonable. Look at figure skaters, golfers, swimmers, etc. etc.—they all are stronger in some areas of their sport than others. Same is true for horses. There simply does not exist an Uber-athlete in any field that can score a 10 on every movement.



  6. #46
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    The question was " was anky's ride really the best?" on the day in that particular test the answer is "yes".

    Salinero just looks so mechanical...so tense to me also...the uneven jerky passage steps, the lack of a halt, and a number of other signs too numerous to mention. He never looks truly relaxed or soft in the back to me.
    I'd agree with that but the other horses that were more regular in the passage, less marrionette style in the way of going etc etc had other problems on the day in that test and made more mistakes. They also scored lower on the music which i can't comment on because i don't understand how to judge it despite horsedances excellent explanations in text of one syllable!

    Bear in mind also, you are not viewing from the same angle as the judges so they may see stuff you don't and vice versa. There is also always the possibility that they know what they are doing and got it right.

    Anky and Salinero had some low marks through the competition and were not at the top of the leader board in the tests that scored totally on the technical requirements. But as i think she said herself she made mistakes and it's a boring sport if you know who's going to win in advance.



  7. #47
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    There simply does not exist an Uber-athlete in any field ......
    You've never been horse buying in Ireland have you?



  8. #48
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    OK - this is really bugging me. I watched the rides again and I just don't see what everyone is talking about with Anky. I am no expert - that is for certain. I watch and try to learn something from all the riders. But I have watched old tapes of Anky with trainers and a judge and they pointed some things out to me that I wouldn't have seen on my own. One is that her transitions from passage to piaffe and back again are so smooth and effortless looking. Her horse is very consistent and I really don't see the tension everyone refers to. Even at the completion of her test, he looks happy and beautiful as he makes his way around the arena. And I love the way she always gives so much of the credit to her horses. She seems to be a very composed, kind and humble person. And along with all these riders, talent galore. But again, I am not that experienced and this is just basically viewing a video on my computer.

    But from what I understand and can see, her horse looks fluid, very consistent, performs without a mistake that I can really see and has incredible transitions that are smooth and effortless. Plus her music is timed perfectly to her horse. She seems to me to be an absolute master at the freestyle.

    I love her beautiful rides and I really don't understand what appears to be just plain nit-picking about her. The other rides were quite beautiful too, but even with my lack of experience, I did notice some mistakes, whereas I really couldn't point one out in Anky's ride.

    Just my humble opinion, but I think Anky is incredible. I think we can all be fairly certain that none of these horses are a piece of cake to ride and all these rides are something to aspire to.

    One more thing - I think for the most part the judges do a great job. They have quite a job watching fabulous ride after fabulous ride. I am sure it is not always an easy task to judge such a caliber of horse and rider and I am thankful for the job they do. They have a bit of a thankless job (except, of course, seeing all the incredible rides) and I am sure take quite a bit of heat. Having had the opportunity to have a judge teach a clinic in my area right after a show where she was the judge, I had a tremedous opportunity to hear first-hand as to why she scored the way that she did and it was quite an eye opener. She was great and I hope to have the opportunity again.



  9. #49
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    Default This is so funny

    When Salinero can't stand still at the halt and salut, this is called "tension".

    When another horse can't stand still at the halt and salut this is called
    "the horse is eager to go to work"



  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horsedances View Post
    When Salinero can't stand still at the halt and salut, this is called "tension".

    When another horse can't stand still at the halt and salut this is called
    "the horse is eager to go to work"
    Thanks for clarifying! hehehehe...



  11. #51
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    and when 50,000 people are cheering and clapping like we did and the horse stands still .....

    call the vet.



  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ise@ssl View Post
    And Aunt Esther and Diamond Girl - if this is only about what the judges score and the riders think - then DON'T SELL TICKETS. Why charge people money to watch if you feel they should just sit, watch, clap and shut up??? It's a spectator sport - HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Every single person watching has the right to have an opinion whether they hold a judges card or not - you two seem to be the thought police - deciding who is worthy to comment or have any input - this is a DISCUSSION BOARD isn't it?
    If you don't like the thread - don't read it.
    Hmmm. No need to shout Ise. Did you forget your meds today?



  13. #53
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    No meds - kiddo - just sick of snobs that think the masses who support this sport should shut up and clap. There are alot of people RIDING horses that don't have as much knowledge as many people WATCHING. And if you think people don't discuss the rides in detail and disagree - then where in God's name were you sitting or standing at the WEG's. We were in our seats and in the warm up area and all over the stadium at different locations - do you honestly think everyone there agreed with the judges?? Then I guess you are deaf and didn't hear the whistling or level or lack of applause for certain horses.

    One thing for sure - Anky's horse just didn't look as happy and soft in the eye as some of the others that had mistakes. But maybe that isn't important to some people.



  14. #54
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    When Salinero can't stand still at the halt and salut, this is called "tension".

    When another horse can't stand still at the halt and salut this is called
    "the horse is eager to go to work"
    __________________
    good point! hahaha



  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horsedances View Post
    When Salinero can't stand still at the halt and salut, this is called "tension".

    When another horse can't stand still at the halt and salut this is called
    "the horse is eager to go to work"
    Not only is it a sign of tension and anxiety but it is a disobedience and a mistake...I thought you said that other than her extended trot her ride was mistake free?



  16. #56
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    Default It was a remark of

    This was a remark of one on the commentators, when Floriano took off before Steffen Peters could put his hat back on.

    Wooooow I love these disobedient horses, because Steffen had one of his best rides ever.

    Theo



  17. #57
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    Personally I thought Anky winning was ok. I wasn't sure I agreed that the gap between her and the others was as big as the score indicated, and I personally wasn't totally over-enamoured with her Kür, but I think I may have seen it once or twice too often, and unlike - for example - Rusty's "Carmina Burana" Kür Anky's *IS* one I don't want to see too often as it doesn't "grab me" emotionally like some others do. person taste, nothing against the Kür, I'm sure for many it's wonderful.

    I am also sure I have seen her do the same Kür better.

    Having said that Matine is ONLY nine years old. She has never performed under floodlights, she has never done anything like she did those days before in her life, and she has years ahead of her to get it right. I am also in love with that horse, she is just totally awesome.

    The one thing that struck me was how big the gulf between the top handful and the rest is. There was a very distinct elite group with paces that didn't just seem a little better, but MUCH better all round.



  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ise@ssl View Post
    And Aunt Esther and Diamond Girl - if this is only about what the judges score and the riders think - then DON'T SELL TICKETS. Why charge people money to watch if you feel they should just sit, watch, clap and shut up??? It's a spectator sport - HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Every single person watching has the right to have an opinion whether they hold a judges card or not - you two seem to be the thought police - deciding who is worthy to comment or have any input - this is a DISCUSSION BOARD isn't it?
    If you don't like the thread - don't read it.
    Aunt Esther, national and international Purse Champion, was in Aachen for the entire duration. Aunt Esther wonders where ise@ssl comes up with "if you think they should just sit," because nowhere does Aunt Esther suggest that people should just sit, watch, clap and shut up.

    Aunt Esther, who earned her Goldenes Reitabzeichen probably before ise@ssl was born, thinks that perhaps ise@ssl is having a bad day and recommends a Macallan. A double.



  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Esther View Post
    Aunt Esther, who earned her Goldenes Reitabzeichen probably before ise@ssl was born, thinks that perhaps ise@ssl is having a bad day and recommends a Macallan. A double.
    But it is generaly known that a double Macallen limits your view. So please ise@ssl don't follow this advice of Aunt Esther.



  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horsedances View Post
    This was a remark of one on the commentators, when Floriano took off before Steffen Peters could put his hat back on.

    Wooooow I love these disobedient horses, because Steffen had one of his best rides ever.

    Theo
    And it should have (and probably did) get counted against his ride as a mistake. I'm not biased to American riders...I could care less where anyone if from or what their reputation is...a mistake should be marked down.



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