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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2004
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    Virginia. We Do Ponies!
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    12,092

    Default Breeding Terms Used Incorrectly

    Have you noticed how many horse people, among them breeders, incorrectly use horse terminology?

    It shows either a lack of knowlege, or education in this business, and I feel is a poor reflection on the person as a horse person.

    For example I'll give some pet peeves:

    A stallion does not produce. He sires. Mares produce. That's why the class is called the "Produce of Dam" class.......... Think about it. So many folks use this loosly and horribly incorrectly.

    A stallion has get. For example, "His get did very well at Devon......" That's why it's called the 'Get of Sire" class.......

    The foal is out of a mare and by a stallion.



    Another example is the relationship issue.

    Just because you have two horses by the same stallion (out of different mares) does not make them related, as half this or half that.

    Horses can only be related if they are out of the same mare by the same stallion (then considered full brother or full sister), or out of the same mare by different stallions (then considered half brother or half sister).


    I just finished reading an article where that very example was in print, incorrectly. Made my hair stand on end!


    Those are a few of mine. What are some of yours?
    Randee Beckman ~Otteridge Farm, LLC (http://on.fb.me/1iJEqvR)~ Marketing Manager - The Clothes Horse & Jennifer Oliver Equine Insurance Specialist



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
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    West Coast of Michigan
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    36,321

    Default

    I also find the terms "half brother" and "half sister" annoying when people are talking about progeny of the same stallion. The proper term is "by the same sire". Half-siblings share a DAM, as the OP mentioned.

    And using STUD instead of STALLION bugs me, too. A stud is a FARM.

    What really cracks me up, though, is when people advertise horses as "a third cousin of Secretariat" or "Seattle Slew's nephew", LOL.
    Click here before you buy.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov. 14, 2001
    Location
    Interlochen, Michigan USA
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    1,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by VirginiaBred
    Just because you have two horses by the same stallion (out of different mares) does not make them related.
    Of course they are related genetically. They just aren't referred to as half- or full-siblings.

    "Equine Repo" (and "equine repo experts" which, I guess, are the people that come and get a horse when payments aren't made on time).
    Trakehner Treffpunkt & Tannenwald Trakehner
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  4. #4

    Default

    Two that I hear people use alot are the term " own son or daughter " for any horse by a certain stallion. An "own " horse is one bred and raised on the place where the stallion stands. Any other of his get are " direct " sons or daughters.

    The other is when people tell me we " we bred our mare this morning" they may have covered their mare but no way they know shes bred at that point.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec. 12, 2002
    Location
    Ontario <Living life for the journey not the destination>
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    1,628

    Default

    county; so would you say that it is incorrect to say a mare was bred on Feb 1st and then confirmed in foal on Feb 14th. I see that a lot.
    http://www.blazingcoloursfarm.com

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  6. #6

    Default

    She may have been covered or AI'ed on Feb 1 but not bred.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun. 10, 2004
    Posts
    1,922

    Default

    I disagree; the word breeding can refer to the physical act of covering, so I see nothing wrong with that. You can breed a mare and she can be not in foal from the breeding.

    The "own" business also smacks of the stock breeds. Why don't you just call it a son or daughter of Joe Horse? It's redundant.

    In racing parlance, a horse (meaning an intact male) is not a stallion until he has sired his first winner.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec. 31, 2002
    Location
    Canada
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    2,217

    Default

    I never knew that a horse sired by the same stallion but different mare could not be considered half siblings...

    The things you learn
    In my opinion, a horse is the animal to have. 1300 pounds of raw muscle, power, grace, and sweat between your legs - it's something you just can't get from a pet hamster.



  9. #9

    Default

    The reason we call them " own " sons or daughters is that then you know where the horse was born and raiised. For example I have an " own ' daughter of Dry doc. The person I'm talking to then knows without my saying she was born and raised on the King Ranch in Tx.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr. 23, 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,019

    Default

    Not a breeding term per se but if I see "confirmation" instead of "conformation" one more time, I'm not responsible for what I do...



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 2000
    Posts
    12,508

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriosoJorge
    I disagree; the word breeding can refer to the physical act of covering, so I see nothing wrong with that. You can breed a mare and she can be not in foal from the breeding.

    The "own" business also smacks of the stock breeds. Why don't you just call it a son or daughter of Joe Horse? It's redundant.

    In racing parlance, a horse (meaning an intact male) is not a stallion until he has sired his first winner.
    I totally agree with your first two, but I have never heard of the third one. We breed TB's (in fact we had another SW today! Yea us!!) and often use first and second year stallions. Obviously these horses have not had an offspring win, or even race, and yet everyone in Lexington calls them stallions.

    In fact, to me, as far as the first one goes, "breeding" is the act of two horses mating. The word has nothing to do with resulting pregnancy or barrenness. I can't see how breeding means pregnant.

    VB, My biggest pet peeve is when people say that a horse is out of [sire]. I generally say "that must be quite a trick for a foal to come out of a male horse".
    "Dyslexics Untie!"



  12. #12

    Default

    The term stud is used all the time in stock horse terms. Has nothing to do with it being a farm. We use ranch and or farm when talking about a place.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun. 7, 2002
    Location
    Virginia
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    3,733

    Default

    This has already been brought up. Twice, I think. But I can't help myself. In my line of work, coming to the aid of experienced breeders and first-timers, alike, hearing "out of (said stallion)" makes my jaw drop! And you'd be shocked by the caliber of horse person I've heard this from! Sometimes I start to wonder if I'm going crazy! Am I?! HUH???!!!



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb. 5, 2003
    Posts
    2,794

    Default

    A stud is a stallion who is used in breeding. The term stud meaning a farm is more of a european designation.

    For instance, my husband is quite the stud, imho and a sweet talking one at that. My daughter's boyfriend, soon to be EX boyfriend, thinks he is a studmuffen, not.

    A gelding who thinks he is a studmuffen is considered "studly" or "studdish".



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr. 23, 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,019

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Helpus
    I totally agree with your first two, but I have never heard of the third one. We breed TB's (in fact we had another SW today! Yea us!!) and often use first and second year stallions. Obviously these horses have not had an offspring win, or even race, and yet everyone in Lexington calls them stallions.

    .
    As I understand it, a stallion is not a sire until his offspring are born. I've also heard that for a stallion to become a sire on a pedigree page, he has to sire his first winner. Similarly, a mare has to have a winner to be designated a producer.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2004
    Location
    Virginia. We Do Ponies!
    Posts
    12,092

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by VirginiaBred

    I just finished reading an article where that very example was in print, incorrectly.


    And, unless you didn't catch it, that incorrect verbage was in the Eventing Issue of COTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Randee Beckman ~Otteridge Farm, LLC (http://on.fb.me/1iJEqvR)~ Marketing Manager - The Clothes Horse & Jennifer Oliver Equine Insurance Specialist



  17. #17
    Join Date
    May. 15, 2006
    Location
    MN
    Posts
    1,308

    Default

    [QUOTE=deltawave]
    And using STUD instead of STALLION bugs me, too. A stud is a FARM.

    QUOTE]

    A Stud is also a stallion used for breeding..unless you know more than Websters dictionary? You THINK a stud is a farm. That is an opinion, nothing else. I THINK a stud is a stallion used for breeding. A stud farm is a farm full of stallions used for breeding. You can't turn something you think, into fact. Thats completely illogical.
    I've got the 3 things men want. I'm hot, and I'm smart!

    -The 6th Member Of The Bareback Riders Clique-



  18. #18
    Join Date
    May. 15, 2006
    Location
    MN
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    1,308

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by county
    The term stud is used all the time in stock horse terms. Has nothing to do with it being a farm. We use ranch and or farm when talking about a place.
    The word "stud" being used in association w/"farm" is the adjective using to describe the noun. Stud is the adjective, farm is the noun. Stud describes what kind of farm you have.
    I've got the 3 things men want. I'm hot, and I'm smart!

    -The 6th Member Of The Bareback Riders Clique-



  19. #19
    Join Date
    May. 15, 2006
    Location
    MN
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    1,308

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TropicalStorm
    I never knew that a horse sired by the same stallion but different mare could not be considered half siblings...

    The things you learn

    I'm confused about why that is. My daughters father had a son w/another woman and and that made my daughter his "half-sister". Why is it different w/horses?

    Why does the dam have to be the connection to make them "half sister/brother? Both parents contrtibuted the same amount of DNA..in fact, the sire commited more because the Stallion determines the sex of the foal.
    I've got the 3 things men want. I'm hot, and I'm smart!

    -The 6th Member Of The Bareback Riders Clique-



  20. #20
    Join Date
    May. 15, 2006
    Location
    MN
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    Default

    I do have a question though. When breeders say so and so horse will "throw" a bay, chestnut, color, etc...are they talking about the sire, or the dam?
    I've got the 3 things men want. I'm hot, and I'm smart!

    -The 6th Member Of The Bareback Riders Clique-



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