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  1. #241
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2000
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    24,408

    Default

    why is it that PI can come here and call people names and tell them they're mentally ill?



  2. #242
    Join Date
    Aug. 26, 1999
    Location
    Concord, California, USA
    Posts
    8,195

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by egontoast
    I don't see too many people saying that a horse should not know how to tie but maybe I missed that(please don't make me read through all that!).

    Some people don't use crossties, some people don't like to tie to trailers but that doesn't necessarilly mean their horses don't tie. My horses tie but I do not tie them to horse trailers because I can usually find another option. I just don't like to. It's OK to do that though. It's OK to use different methods. Horses can injure themselves in so many ways and we each must choose the risks we'll take. I know people who think it's dangerous to remove halters IN THE BARN because there might be a fire! I know people who think it's dangerous to leave halters off outside because they may get out or leave halters on because they may get caught up. It's OK! Do what you think is best for your horse and don't be so judgmental of others.

    Egon, I agree, to each his own --- but there have been statements on here that anyone who ties to a trailer is a bad horseman/woman, and that expensive dressage horses do not/are not tied to trailers, and that anyone who does so is perpetually at risk of injuring/killing their horse(s) - leaving an impression that I and others who routinely tie to trailers (always still hitched to the truck, of course!) are BAD horsepeople, and that some horses are just too "precious" to learn to tie with any reliability - a dubious distinction. Frankly, few of the shows I go to/have gone to - all recognized - both dressage and H/J (in the past) offer any alternative. If people didn't tie to their trailers, they would have to be holding their horses every minute - while they picked up their numbers, someone to hold while they saddled, etc. - hardly practical. And frankly, even if stalls are occasionally available, shows are expensive enough as it is - I don't want to have to fork over yet another $25 for a stall. I find a shady place and leave (horrors!) my horse tied to the trailer, with food, water, etc. set out for him. I am with him most of the time, but I don't fear to walk away to get my number, go to the ladies and/or watch a few classes. He may not be FEI, he may be a non-WB, but by golly, he TIES and I don't have to constantly worry that he's going to be attacked/injured/killed merely because he's tied to my trailer. Sure, manure happens, but if we have to be that paranoid, we shouldn't even RIDE them, or turn them out, or lunge them, or ANYTHING. Join PETA perhaps and let them run free??



  3. #243
    Join Date
    Jan. 13, 2003
    Posts
    6,829

    Default

    Well why can't you just leave your horse in the trailer with the doors/ramp open and go get your number, food, hit the bathroom, shop, socialize, etc.?? I don't care what discipline or breed - I just won't leave horses tied to a trailer without BEING THERE.

    I also think leaving horses on cross-ties for long stretches of time makes no sense when they can be in their stalls.

    First horse I ever owned was a cross-bred who I rode H/J and dressage successfully - could ride him in a parade or along a busy rode. He was a total gentleman and dead-honest to every fence but I would NEVER leave him tied to a trailer or a tree without being there.



  4. #244
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2006
    Posts
    891

    Default

    Cherri Reiber is currently based in Florida. Both my friend and my coach knows her personally... I don't claim to know her but I met her a few times at my friend's barn. I just fired a note to my friend to ask if she knows who Cherri is training with right now. (Anyone knows?) She left Toronto 2 years ago, there is rumour she no longer does Medieval Times, there is rumour she still flies up to do it.

    Cherri is American, not Canadian.

    Just in case anyone thought Cherri teaches her horses to stand on a box or dog sit on a ball or lie on their back, in fact she is a classical dressage rider. Very correct, traditional. Perhaps her horses know a trick or two, but I've never heard her mention it or perform it at Medieval Times. (BTW, actually my horse knows how to bow too!)

    I don't know whether she would tie her horse for hours, I know as a fact her farrier who is based in Ontario would fly down to Florida to do her horses every 6 weeks. That's how serious she takes her horses and riding career.



  5. #245
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2006
    Posts
    891

    Default

    I also do not leave horses tied unattended. Tied for a short time when I was there, sure I do that all the time. Tied unattended, never. I've seen 2 accidents and one involves an aged pony that has been tied a million times and been to shows a million times.. one involves a mare, happily chewing hay until a worker moved some flower arrangements. I don't ever want to find out if my horse would survive these incidents or not... mind you my horse is bomb proof, he hasn't spooked for a long time. But why chance it if I can prevent it almost 100%.



  6. #246
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2001
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    8,542



  7. #247
    Join Date
    Aug. 26, 1999
    Location
    Concord, California, USA
    Posts
    8,195

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MyReality
    I don't know whether she would tie her horse for hours,

    Well, I think that MAY be the issue, maybe.... I do not leave my horse tied to the trailer, unattended for "hours," but I have no problem with tying him to the trailer and going away for 15 minutes, or 20 minutes... nor any problem with a horse being tied to a trailer or fence or whatever (safely) for "hours" if he is easily within sight/grasp. Sometimes, if you want to actually show, or trail ride, or compete in cutting or team penning, that's what you have to do.

    But NEVER tie to a trailer? I don't know anyone - except people who have said so on this thread - who DOESN'T tie to a trailer at one-day shows. (Oh, I'm sure someone with a lot of money to throw around probably DOES rent a stall - but not all shows offer them). I spent one show, when it rained, with hours between rides, standing the a barn aisleway holding my horse because there were no stalls available and my trailer is a stock trailer, so he would have been rained on to some extent even in the trailer. So was everyone else, except the smart person who actually had one of those marquees that rolls out from the roof of the trailer to shelter her horse. But her horse was tied to the trailer. Accidents can happen, but in 50+ years of riding and 35+ of owning my own horse(s), I've tied him (them) to the trailer - even when he was a greenie, 'tho of course, at that time, I did NOT leave him unattended. One can cite instances of supposedly horrible accidents that happened to horses tied to trailers or elsewhere, but the same could happen ANYWHERE - not just tied to a trailer. Even horses being held by their owners can get loose given a sufficiently scary happening - so NOT tying is no guarantee of safety. If I had to be that paranoid about tying my horse (something that just about everyone I know regards as one of the first things to teacha horse), then I guess I should take up dog-showing instead - keep that sucker on a leash at all times. ROFLOL I appreciate that someone may have a "sensitive" horse that they would prefer to cater to than struggle with, and indeed, to each his own. But I expect my horse to tie and stand quietly, and I don't have anxiety attacks about what might happen while he is tied. That's all.



  8. #248
    Join Date
    Aug. 7, 2005
    Location
    Southern California/Muenchen
    Posts
    2,987

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by egontoast

    oh- you found it...LOL! quite a circus, eh...



  9. #249
    Join Date
    Jul. 5, 2002
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    8,288

    Default

    That is neither pretty nor "classical. I know a few ODG's (circus type) who would be flipping in their graves. Many of whom PI mentioned.



  10. #250
    Join Date
    Mar. 1, 2001
    Posts
    1,031

    Default

    Re
    take a gander here!
    I think we need an emergency policy decision from Aunt Esther...i just don't know what to say!

    Auntieeeeeeeeeeee HELP!



  11. #251
    Join Date
    Dec. 4, 2002
    Location
    Dungeon of the Ivory Tower
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    20,394

    Default

    Fiona - I agree! More formally stated:

    Aunt Esther, when tieing your horse to the trailer, is it more appropriate to be carrying your Louis Vitton handbag to the port a potty? And when you leave your horse standing tied for hours in the stall aisles, should you be sporting the Hermes bag when gossiping in the tack room? Thanking you in advance.
    www.specialhorses.org
    a 501(c)3 organization helping 501(c)3 equine rescues




  12. #252
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2004
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    794

    Question Piaffe @ Liberty....

    Just FYI...Piaffe at liberty is not hard to teach, and is actually usually more correct than undersaddle.....
    Before he was ridden, I ground drove my horse, always had some treats in my pocket.... One day when asking for something else...he offered piaffe.... so I was quick to reward him, and it became a cue...at a very young age....I agree with Kyra K. if they offer it...reward it, you might need it someday... so that is what I did....Turns out he is a natural with piaffe.

    So, for some time, we would do a few steps in hand, and reward with treats...this went on for a long time...proably two years. It was just a fun thing we asked him to do and he enjoyed and got free carrots/mints/cookies...whatever...

    Then came the day it transfered to under saddle, same thing, asked for a few steps here and there and gave rewards...

    One day, about two years ago, we were having a bitterly cold winter, so all the work we were doing was at liberty....just to see if he'd do it, I played with the piaffe cue with just a halter/lead on him while he walked in a circle around me....Wow, he did, so I rewarded him, we repeated this several times, as he was really having fun with it and so was I.....he was very keyed onto me, so I pulled the halter and lead off and asked again...and for sure...he offered it....that is also the winter he learned about passage...same way...halter and lead on a cold day and I asked for trot / piaffe / trot / piaffe, and wahla...passage and a bunch of treats for him....he loves passage, so much so that we are leaving it alone for awhile!!!!!! Everytime I'd half halt I was getting passage....so it is in there.....we just don't ask for it much right now...he is only six.....so I'm just happy to know it is in the tool bag for later....
    Teaching some of these things is simply teaching your horse that there is a right answer...and a reward for it.....once they know there is a way to please you, and a right answer....there is a great path of communication open...the greatest things 'trick' training gave to me & my horse were 1. open communication lines faster 2. gave us a lot to work on while he was growing and 3. he learned to learn.

    God Bless~

    ~*~Choose thy Love, Love thy Choice~*~
    ~*Ride Far*~Ride Well~*~ The Sky's the Limit~
    www.firstgiving.com/christinahyke



  13. #253
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2001
    Posts
    8,542

    Default

    Aunt Esther, when tieing your horse to the trailer, is it more appropriate to be carrying your Louis Vitton handbag to the port a potty? And when you leave your horse standing tied for hours in the stall aisles, should you be sporting the Hermes bag when gossiping in the tack room? Thanking you in advance.
    oooo, good question!.

    ps the website is interesting. I am going to order a beanbag chair and a lava lamp for each stall.
    Last edited by egontoast; Jul. 13, 2006 at 08:39 PM.



  14. #254
    Join Date
    Mar. 12, 2006
    Location
    Western South Dakota
    Posts
    2,465

    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by egontoast
    GRRRR!! What makes me mad is that these knuckleheads always have to call what they are doing, DRESSAGE. Pleease, do what you want, but come up with your own "name" and stop hanging on the coattails of real dressage!!

    Oh, we do teach all our horses to tie. It's a good thing for a horse to know.



  15. #255
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2006
    Posts
    32

    Default Well this was fun but I got to get back to work....

    I know I came off as rather mean spirited, it was too prove a point to people who bully others for having a different viewpoint. I had quite a few people Email and PM me with a thank you too, so its not just me that feels the same few always gang up on anyone who doesn’t see it the way they do.

    Point two began after point one, when I was challenged on my claims of my horses being able to handle surroundings almost unthinkable for the ones I was arguing with, and I was accused of endangered recklessness for being able to ride my horses to Burger King. I hate Burger King by the way…

    I believe the video clips made it more than clear, just how socialized my horses are. My horses can do what I say they can do…And I owe it all to great trainers who shared their life’s work with me.

    For the record, its ok to disagree. Its OK if you dont feel comfortable doing certain things with your horses. If you have fear your horse will have fear… It is not OK to force your viewpoint on others.

    Some people will tell you things in good faith, because that is what they believe or all they know. . Others just want you to agree with whatever they believe or they not being able to do something, feel no one else can either.

    Learn all you can, and do the best you can for your horses. They didnt choose to be in your barn. No different than children it is our responsibility to make sure they are prepared for the world….

    That being said I leave this thread with these words.

    Dressage is not what you think it is, or what I think it is.

    According the Masters it is an Art Form.

    Two people can never create the exact same Art…Even if they are both abstract artists, or minimalists or whatever....

    What one person considers art or Dressage you may not, but don’t forget Competition Dressage is relatively new.

    After the Court Schools fell out of favor the CIRCUS was the only place one could see Dressage. There were no competitons. Dressage as we know it today owes much to the Circus and has its roots deeply planted in Circensic Equitation. Never forget those One Tempes as well as other things you wish to train your horse to do were at one time exclusively Circus Movements.

    Times change, people change but horses remain the same. They are reflections of ourselves and their kindness and nobility is not too be taken for granted.

    You please the judge, exhibition riders please the crowd. Doesn’t make either of you right or wrong-AS LONG AS THE HORSES BEST INTEREST ARE IN YOUR HEART….


    As long as he is Emotionally, Mentally and Physically ready to do what you require and you have the tact to communicate what you are requesting of him...THEN EVEN A RANCH/TRAIL horse is a Dressage horse. He has been prepared and is confident in doing what it is you request of him.

    To me that is what Dressage is…Again its perfectly OK with me if you disagree, or you like Competing….

    .There is nothing about teaching your horse to do fun stuff that will keep him from being a Grand Prix Horse. It might even be fun for them to do something different. If you choose another form of ground work that’s fine, don’t begrudge someone else the joy they find in whatever they choose.

    Take what is good from each method and leave the rest on the plate. I certainly hope there are horses in Heaven. Because all the great masters agreed on ONE THING for sure.

    That one lifetime is not enough to learn all there is to learn about horses.

    Do not follow in their footsteps, seek what they sought. How sad those men would be to know we are doing or trying to do exactly what they did then. Why do you think they wrote it all down. Certainly not wealth and fame is useless to dead people. I think they were trying to give us a head start they didn’t have.

    I do believe if the Classical Masters were alive today, they would train very differently. From Baucher to Oliveira to Fillis to whoever. Their ideas and beliefs changed through their life. Horsemanship, much like reality is not static.

    With each horse and each experience we grow, its those bad days and tough horses that make us better trainers/communicators.

    “Herbermann points out that "it takes an enormous amount of adequate experience, often requiring years of study, in order to even begin to recognize the details which differentiate right from wrong or better aspects from less good ones. " What I think he means by this is that one lifetime is not enough time to discover the "right" way to train a horse. Rather as he suggests we must "build our work on the hard-fought ground won by past generations of dedicated riders."—Cathy Morelli


    If you do choose to listen to someone exclusively, please find a GRAND PRIX trainer to follow.

    To those of you bullies out there…beware or I might come back out of lurk-dom!

    Do carry on…

    Now I going back to lurking and learning…

    Sincerely,

    PI



  16. #256
    Join Date
    Mar. 1, 2001
    Posts
    1,031

    Default

    I know I came off as rather mean spirited, it was too prove a point to people who bully others for having a different viewpoint.
    Which is a pity because you are probably interesting as oppose to what you showed us. You didn't have to be mean spirited to make your point it would have been more effective, and a darn sight easier to read if you'd taken a different approach.

    I hate Burger King by the way…
    Thank Goodness for that! It really worried me that you thought that the drive thro' was a legitimate place go eat.



  17. #257
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2001
    Posts
    8,542

    Default

    I'm not buying the- I was meanspirited to make a point with bullies.- Sabine is not a bully she just disagreed with people who are not used to having people challenge them. You , on the other hand are a bully, telling people to'shut up' and that they 'need a man ' or are mentally ill and so on because they disagree with you....Can't be too good for business.



  18. #258
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2000
    Posts
    24,408

    Default

    No, Politically Correct, I'm not buying it either. It's an excuse for acting like an a**hole.

    Moderators, why is it OK for Politically Incorrect to insult people, call them names, say they're mentally ill, etc?



  19. #259
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2001
    Posts
    8,542

    Default

    I don't think it's an issue for the moderators. I think it's good that the moderators rarely get involved with this stuff. We have"Ignore", if necessary.

    That said, if you have a complaint , you should send it to the moderators rather than posting it here. It's not like they are actually reading this stuff, poor things.



  20. #260
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2002
    Location
    Waterford, VA USA
    Posts
    4,874

    Default

    I have this vision of PI sitting astride her steed with a milkshake in one hand and a large order of fries in the other as the horse lowers itself onto a huge beanbag chair. Ahh, the visual is so powerful!

    Once PI has stuffed her face, the steed gets up and performs 200 perfect piaffe steps, follwed by an immediate canter pirouette around the dog's water dish, all without spilling a drop of the milkshake!! The raw power of this brings on completely new emotions.... This is round-pen performance at its finest! The spectators have gathered around waving their lava lamps in silent awe....

    But the piece de resistance comes when PI takes a huge swallow from her shake, slides of her steed, and commands him to lie down and roll over. AAAAHHHHHHH... the crowd is mesmerized. But wait, what is she doing now? No, it can't be! The spectators go crazy, some faint from all the excitement... PI and her mighty steed who is still on his back, are playing PATTY CAKES!!!! The lava lamps are swinging like mad and the crowd is howling in appreciation of this incredible performance. Patty Cakes - a FIRST in dressage!
    Siegi Belz
    www.stalleuropa.com
    2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
    Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.



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