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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov. 1, 2001
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    9,871

    Default Tying a horse for a long time

    I didn't want to hijack feisomeday's thread. But I am amazed at how many people object to training that involves having a horse "just hang out" for a couple of hours. This has always been part of my routine for starting youngsters. I have a big oak tree in my yard just for this purpose. I find it makes the horses more secure, independent and self assured. Besides there is nothing worse than being at a show with a horse that can't be left tied to the trailer. I liken this to a child being able to go to sleep at night by themselves.

    What are the problems others have with it?
    See those flying monkeys? They work for me.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep. 14, 2004
    Location
    Pinon Hills
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    112

    Default

    I think being able to stand tied quietly for at least an hour is as wonderful virtue in a horse. But it just takes time and getting used to it. Especially the insecure horses who don't like being away from the herd. They'll paw and whinny like they are the Last Horse on Earth, but then they settle down. After they can do this, they gain a lot more confidence and IMO are easier to train and therefore safer to be around.
    There's a perception that it's cruel, or at least that's what I've heard people say. Standing out in the sun all alone with no water ... the thought drives some horseowners mad.
    It's usually the same owners whose horses walk 5 feet ahead of them, dragging Mommy anywhere they want to go.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2002
    Location
    Waterford, VA USA
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    4,911

    Default

    nhwr - your quote "I find it makes the horses more secure, independent and self assured. " This is after you have them tied to an oak tree for a couple of hours? I think it's more likely to end up with a horse that SEEMS quiet because it's given up. As a flight animal it's important to a horse to always see a way out. Once there's no more way out, the horse basically surrenders, but rest assured that he will always look for that way. While I understand that it's necessary to be able to restrain a horse for certain things, I've always thought it highly irresponsible of owners to tie their horses to their trailers (and I've seen a few trailers damaged quite heavily because of that). I have heard of broken necks in horses wearing two nylon halters and that were tied to old trees.

    There are all kinds of ways to teach horses - brute force has never been one to aspire to in my book. There is a reason people are more intelligent than horses.... :-)
    Siegi Belz
    www.stalleuropa.com
    2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
    Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun. 1, 2002
    Location
    Indiana
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    11,378

    Default

    Western horses stand tied to trailers for hours at shows between classes, and thousands of trail horses stand tied to trailers while their owners have lunch between riding, or even stand tied overnight.

    My own horse gets a stall at horse shows but if we trail ride or school cross country he has to be able to stand tied to a trailer. For as long as I need him too. I've even gone to dressage and jumping lessons at very nice barns where there have been no stalls, so he has to stand tied to a rail or the trailer.

    Standing tied in a stall or to a rail for an hour or two is excellent training. I've seen trainers tack two horses up, tie on in the arena while workng the other then switch. The horses learn to stand still and not stomp around. As long as they aren't tied up short or tied for hours without food or water it's just like standing in their stall taking a nap.

    It's awful to get to a trail ride or lesson and find that your horse will not stand tied long enough for you to change into your boots, eat a sandwich, or go to the potty. You have to stand next to the stupid animal all day long will it snorts, pulls, paws, and tries to get loose.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug. 8, 2004
    Posts
    309

    Default

    I have a friend whose young horses all learn to stand in a tie stall in the barn, where she can stick them while they cool out/dry off once they are ridden. She also does the tie & switch in the arena sometimes. I am thinking of one or two of these stalls in addition to the boxes when my addition goes up.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    May. 15, 2001
    Location
    Finally home in CO
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    399

    Default

    If you are talking about tieing for a couple of hours with you being within reach. I think that it's a great thing. I problem I have with "tieing training" is when the "trainer" ties the horse and leaves the property oh...for 8 hours, 10 hours. I knew of a person just like this. One time he did this to a young Paso. He rode the horse and then tied him in his stall with the saddle on him. When I got to the barn the horse was kicking the wall and the saddle was under his belly. I called the trainer's cell and home numbers trying to let him know that there was a problem. The trainer was off property all day that day. I rescued the horse but .
    Another time this same person tied a horse to a tree. This time he was on property but the horse layed down while she was still tied. I let him know that the horse was laying down. The trainer went and rescued the horse but . This is not training, it's (insert your own word).



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun. 11, 2006
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    503

    Default

    I may get flamed here, but I start my young horses tying at a young age. I gradually work my way up to longer periods. I show, I trail ride and I camp. When I camp, my horses are tied on a high line....over night!
    Mine are just fine eating out of their hay bags, tied. Its not cruel.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2004
    Posts
    7,539

    Default

    i think that any horse should be able to stand tied for a certain period of time.....

    however, that said i dont think that a horse should be taught this in one fell swoop. nor should the handler be far off. ie: i would gradually increase time spent tied - i would not tie them to a tree and leave them there for hours.

    i also think that a leather halter should be used so that it can break if needed so that horse wont snap neck if something happens.

    i was always taught to never leave my horse tied... so i have a gut reaction to walking away from a tied horse - and if i have to go pee i run to the john and back again - just in case.

    i have been in (many) barns where horses were left x-tied for long periods of time... perhaps trainer was riding another horse or what have you.... i am not sure wha ti think of that.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug. 6, 2002
    Location
    NJ, USA
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    2,323

    Default

    I've got a track background, and find many are suprised that OTTB's do know how to tie - they spend quality time attached to a short chain (high so they can't paw over it) while stall is being cleaned/groomed or tacked/waiting for exercise rider to appear, etc... that said, they *are* in their safe, comfortable stall at the time, and their are plenty of people around working that could help, but I've never seen a horse in this situation need help. They are never cross tied (the aisle is used for hotwalking) or tied to trailers or in other places than a stall, that I've experienced; but tied short in a stall, they just about all have experience with.

    For my retraining of OTTB's, I get them used to tying in other situations with bungee cords, short bits of time, then longer, and of course keep a close eye on them, but it's mainly their highly sensitive reaction to the things going on around them that is the trouble, not the fact that they are tied. I introduce cross ties also on bungees, at first one side only, the other a cotton lead draped through the tie ring ("pretend" cross tie). Also helps if there is a wall behind them, at first - not tied out in an aisle, at least at first.

    As someone said, little by little, keeping an eye on them - eventually they all become pretty comfortable tied.

    But I'm never totally relaxed leaving them tied, as they ARE Thoroughbreds, centuries of breeding telling them to react fast, think later, and IMO they can never be expected to be as non-reactive as a cooler blooded breed. Accidents are always more nasty when a horse desperately wants to get away and finds it can't, unless someone is there to intervene.

    Anyway, just wanted to point out the stall tying experience of OTTB's, in case someone has one and didn't know - when in a pinch, it's nice to have a high tie ring in that stall, most OTTB's just go (relatively) to sleep when they find themselves hitched to that!

    Cheers,
    Arcadien



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul. 17, 2002
    Location
    Redlands, CA
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    7,773

    Default

    A timely thread. How do you start teaching a horse to tie?

    I have a big oak tree. I have a box stall.

    What age?

    ????



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2004
    Location
    An armadillo trap in TX
    Posts
    100

    Red face

    A horse should be able to stand tied to a trailer, a tree or whatever.
    Eventers do it with TB's or whatever they are riding, western folks do it too, so do endurance and trail riders.

    In my day it was called a "worry pole" --take the horse out to a pole or tree where you could tie 'em high and let 'em worry it out.

    It's a horse, not a person, it needs to do what you need it to do!



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug. 9, 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    731

    Default

    While I understand that it's necessary to be able to restrain a horse for certain things, I've always thought it highly irresponsible of owners to tie their horses to their trailers (and I've seen a few trailers damaged quite heavily because of that). I have heard of broken necks in horses wearing two nylon halters and that were tied to old trees.
    I'm curious Siegi, if a stall is not available and you don't have a portable corral (or there is no room to set one up) how do you deal with th horse all day? I agree that proper training is necessary but I expect my horses to be stading quietry tied to the trailer for a couple of hours with no accidents. Granted I wouldn't leave them alone tied there (or anywhere) but, for instance, at endurance rides it's not unusual to see horses tied to the trailer for the night and I've seen no horse acting up. Do you think these people used force? I doubt it.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2004
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    794

    Exclamation Importance of...

    Quote Originally Posted by mzpeepers
    I'm curious Siegi, if a stall is not available and you don't have a portable corral (or there is no room to set one up) how do you deal with th horse all day? I agree that proper training is necessary but I expect my horses to be stading quietry tied to the trailer for a couple of hours with no accidents. Granted I wouldn't leave them alone tied there (or anywhere) but, for instance, at endurance rides it's not unusual to see horses tied to the trailer for the night and I've seen no horse acting up. Do you think these people used force? I doubt it.
    NHWR-I agree with you-GREAT TOPIC-:
    Training a horse to tie for long periods is ESSENTIAL-for trailer hauling, especially. Anyone who is not comfortable tying their horse for two hours or more has no business expecting that horse to trailer anywhere.
    HOW can you expect a horse that you have NEVER asked to stand tied for more than 20 minutes, in a calm environment, to stand still for hours in a bouncing trailer?

    People need to get REAL....a trained horse is a happier horse....do you NOT send your children to school, because they'd be happier not going?
    I see many happy horses camping, standing tied for hours. These horses are able to get out and have fuller lives because they have fuller education. Next you'll be telling me it is cruel to expect a child to sit in their chair during a classroom period...

    Training a horse to tie is more of a mental/emotional training of the horse....and is no more cruel than expecting you to go to work, or your child to stay in a classroom. IT DOES NOT BREAK THEIR SPIRIT....IT TEACHES THEM PATIENCE.....and patience is a virtue.

    THE HORSES I FEEL SORRY FOR ARE THE ONES WITHOUT THE EDUCATION
    ~*Ride Far*~Ride Well~*~ The Sky's the Limit~
    www.firstgiving.com/christinahyke



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug. 7, 2005
    Location
    Southern California/Muenchen
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    2,987

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by siegi b.
    nhwr - your quote "I find it makes the horses more secure, independent and self assured. " This is after you have them tied to an oak tree for a couple of hours? I think it's more likely to end up with a horse that SEEMS quiet because it's given up. As a flight animal it's important to a horse to always see a way out. Once there's no more way out, the horse basically surrenders, but rest assured that he will always look for that way. While I understand that it's necessary to be able to restrain a horse for certain things, I've always thought it highly irresponsible of owners to tie their horses to their trailers (and I've seen a few trailers damaged quite heavily because of that). I have heard of broken necks in horses wearing two nylon halters and that were tied to old trees.

    There are all kinds of ways to teach horses - brute force has never been one to aspire to in my book. There is a reason people are more intelligent than horses.... :-)

    Where is the 'applause icon' when I need it...????^%$^%$^@#

    I do not subscribe to horses being tied for hours ANYWHERE..but then I don't have quarterhorses or trailhorses and so I think I would not like to generalize this statement. I don't know what other disciplines do with their horses and frankly it does not really worry me either.
    I have dressage horses and they DON't get tied to the trailer...NO WAY!!
    If I can't afford a boarding stall or have a friend that can let me use a stall while at the show- I won't go to the show....basta! They are dancers and happy - trusting and energized animals- they do NOT lend themselves to be tied to a trailer for hours in the dust- while other trailers whizz by and loose dogs go bezerk and crazy mothers push their babycarts with screaming rascals by...no way in HELL!!!
    You can't have it both ways...the energized beautiful master beast that makes people go WOW what a nice horse with great gaits...and then next you know he is tied to the trailer- his engine shut off, while I munch down a hotdog and review my score...NOPE that's not MY reality!!!

    and PS: my horses trailer very nicely thankyou- they are perfectly happy in a trailer that is moving, they will wait after arriving for 5 to 10 minutes- but that is completely different than being tied to the outside of a trailer- usually in a passageway- where traffic passes by...there is no connection between the two topics...



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug. 7, 2005
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    Southern California/Muenchen
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    2,987

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Utah
    I have a friend whose young horses all learn to stand in a tie stall in the barn, where she can stick them while they cool out/dry off once they are ridden. She also does the tie & switch in the arena sometimes. I am thinking of one or two of these stalls in addition to the boxes when my addition goes up.

    I use that method with my 2 year old and also did with my now 7 year old- when I got him as a 2 year old- this is quite safe and a controlled environment- plus I never leave the area..EVER. It's a great way to teach patience and trust- but it is a closed, controlled area...

    it proved to be a safe and good method and the 7yr old is pretty bomb proof.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun. 15, 2006
    Posts
    64

    Angry speachless..

    I am speechless as I read through some of the posts! How long does it take to "prove" that a horse can is good to go? I have never tied any of my clients horses, or any of my own, for that matter, for large amounts of time just to "prove" that they could do it! When I am training my foals I will tie them, groom them, have "fun" with them, and they realize that being "tied" is a fun, rewarding experience. I've NEVER had any problems with my own horses at shows or anywhere else, for that matter. I expected them to stand, and they do it, because they have manners. As for clients horses that "came" unwilling to stand, I treat them as I do my own "foals" we go back, and learn. Grooming is fun, standing tied is cool, and at shows I have never had problems! Strange, I've never tied them out for hours, and if I EVER had seen someone doing this to my horse, or to someones that I knew, I would let that horses owner know in a second. There are other ways of working through those problems, I'll put my name here on the line that there are. Why don't you go stand next to the horse for the same amount of time..and see how YOU like standing there for a "FEW" hours! Better yet, let me tie you to a tree, on a short lead, and see how you like it! Reminds me of the people on "survivor" or other reality game shows that try to stand in one place the longest..gets really boring!! At least at a show, if the horse does have to be tied, there is a lot going on, and the horse has something to look at...I just don't see the need for this type of training, I've had to deal with too many horses that hate life because of "training" methods like these..



  17. #17
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    Aug. 7, 2005
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    Southern California/Muenchen
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    2,987

    Cool

    tend to agree with 'theweather'...it seems foreign to me too...



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun. 15, 2006
    Posts
    64

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Utah
    I have a friend whose young horses all learn to stand in a tie stall in the barn, where she can stick them while they cool out/dry off once they are ridden. She also does the tie & switch in the arena sometimes. I am thinking of one or two of these stalls in addition to the boxes when my addition goes up.
    And here I learned, while I was "learning" about horses/riding..that when you are done "riding" you should walk your horse out to cool/dry it! Whatever happened to "this" method..am I the only one that does this still? I've ridden a LOT of horses, but I have never been in such a rush to get on the next one, or have to do so much, that I didn't have time to cool/dry it by walking it out...relaxing us both. I then have a horse that really likes me..and will do anything I want it to, including standing tied..when I ask. Why, because I have my horse to a point that it will do anything for me, no matter what I ask..I'm currently workin with a horse that, when it "reacted" to a terribly mean trainer, he took it,put on hobbles, tied it's head between its feet, and left it standing there for hours..or, tied its head to its side, and left it standing there for hours, so the horse would "bend and flex" I'm now trying to teach this horse that it can trust a human..I hope I never cross paths with the person who did this to a trusting creature..I don't know what I would do...I see the broken eyes, body, fear,etc.. in this horses eyes...



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2004
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    794

    Unhappy Sabine...sorry to hear we don't agree on this 1........

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabine
    Where is the 'applause icon' when I need it...????^%$^%$^@#

    I do not subscribe to horses being tied for hours ANYWHERE..but then I don't have quarterhorses or trailhorses and so I think I would not like to generalize this statement. I don't know what other disciplines do with their horses and frankly it does not really worry me either.
    I have dressage horses and they DON't get tied to the trailer...NO WAY!!
    If I can't afford a boarding stall or have a friend that can let me use a stall while at the show- I won't go to the show....basta! They are dancers and happy - trusting and energized animals- they do NOT lend themselves to be tied to a trailer for hours in the dust- while other trailers whizz by and loose dogs go bezerk and crazy mothers push their babycarts with screaming rascals by...no way in HELL!!!
    You can't have it both ways...the energized beautiful master beast that makes people go WOW what a nice horse with great gaits...and then next you know he is tied to the trailer- his engine shut off, while I munch down a hotdog and review my score...NOPE that's not MY reality!!!
    Sabine, WOW, this is the FIRST time we haven't agreed on a topic!!!!!

    If your horse is hauled to the show, HE IS TIED FOR HOURS. AND YES< you can have it both ways, MAN O MAN if my Arab Trakehner STALLION can do it....Geez...I think anybody can...
    I don't know how much more of an "energized, beautiful master beast" you can get!!!!!!!!!!!! Especially one that is fit enough to compete in endurance and Dressage. JUST BECAUSE YOUR KID IS IN SPORTS< DOESNT MEAN HE GETS A FREE PASS OUTTA CLASSROOMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! JUST because he is an athlete, doesn't mean he doesn't have to have manners and a brain.

    My horse not only does dressage, he does distance, halter, hunter and ties to the trailer, as well as a few other things...and he is a happy horse.... & a well educated horse.... some of the happiest horses I have seen are ones that go camping...you could open your mind a learn a lot from their owners...only God knows where the world would be today if throughout history horses had not learned to stand tied to a post....

    Maybe this is the missing link on why many western, 4-H and endurance horses are quieter than dressage horses?????

    To me, this is, like NHWR said, a standard part of the horses first education.

    My horse is unconventional though...he does a few other odd things that traditional dressage horses don't do...just for fun....BTW, he has a great time doing them....

    http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL673.../164979682.jpg

    http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL673.../164979681.jpg

    Because something is foreign to you, doesn't make it wrong. How do you think people ever managed before cars...do you think they had their kids hold their horses instead of tying them? What about all the amish and slip stalls? Or the horses at fairs with slip stalls? Do you think all the people over the centuries that had horses that actually tied for long periods were wrong? No, these were horses that had good work ethics...Geezzz you better go tell my old amish farrier in Ohio that all these years it has been wrong of him to drive his horse somewhere and leave it tied....with a buggy and harness on!!!!!!!! And that all those, um twelve...ties in his blacksmith shop are horrible...because he certainly leaves those horses tied when he is working, maybe for hours and hours...until their owners pick them up....and he has not had a probem...and he is in his seventies!!!!!! Has been a farrier all his life...
    Last edited by Trakehners2000; Jul. 9, 2006 at 02:46 AM.
    ~*Ride Far*~Ride Well~*~ The Sky's the Limit~
    www.firstgiving.com/christinahyke



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug. 7, 2005
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    Thumbs down

    Sorry Christina- still friends!- but I don't agree...maybe I have been burned bad- I lost 2 horses to tying/cross tieing accidents..a total of 70K down the drain- I won't do it again - ever...Sorry!!!



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