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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Aug. 22, 2005
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    3,788

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PetsAlive
    - with this sort of thinking I would highly recommend that if you have daughters you keep them locked in the house in case any of the men in your neighborhood 'may' molest them.
    They say the nut don't fall far from the tree, and if that's the case, you'll probably want to redirect your warning to any fellow who 'may' attempt this molestation, 'cuz there probably won't be much left to find of him afterwards.



  2. #42

    Default

    Luck has nothing to do with keeping animals safe and sound. Common sense and well thought out preperation do.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.



  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jul. 13, 2004
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    3,177

    Default

    Holy cow, people. Shit happens and it happened to her. Have some compassion. There are tons of things we ALL wish we could have done differently every single day. So add this incident to her list, and move on.



  4. #44
    Join Date
    Mar. 1, 2005
    Location
    maryland
    Posts
    5,219

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BarbB
    As others have said, you can't control the idiots next door and given the history you can't count on local law enforcement. Two bad things out of your control.

    You can take action to prevent harm from being done at your end of the problem. Who knows, maybe shutting the horse in wouldn't have kept him from hurting himself, but it might have and that action is under your control, the people breaking the law aren't.
    But by your logic, she should've tranq'd every horse there. Horses spook, we all know that. If one rocket went a different direction and headed over a different barn or paddock, it could've spooked another horse. She had no way of knowing which direction the rockets would take.

    We don't know shutting all the horses in is the answer either. I've seen horses horribly injured while stalled. Horses are big animals and they sometimes do silly things, especially when terrified. If he was in a stall when he freaked out, would we all be here condemning her for locking him in a confined space?

    Imagine for a moment you own next-door neighbor has been known to set off fireworks. Do you mean to tell me YOU would tranq every horse you own each time you saw it? And knowing it takes a few minutes to gather the syringes, catch the horse, and wait for the shot to work... you're telling me you'd get it done faster than he can set up & light his first rockets. The OP may not have known for sure he was setting up a display (not like she got an invite that said "show at x:xx sharp").

    And every time we give a shot we take a small risk. Maybe she doesn't know how he reacts to the tranq she has on hand. Maybe something less risky like ACE doesn't do much; I know it didn't do much for my one belgian. Is the correct answer to pay a vet to come to her farm on a holiday after-hours to drug him (and maybe the rest) of the horses?

    Sorry for the long winded reply. This is just a sensitive issue with me personally. Last fall another of my idiot neighbors set off fireworks that did result in my old QH mare falling over and getting hurt. I had zero notice and no tranq on hand; before I realized what the noise was, the mare was bolting and then fell. You have no idea how powerless this makes a horseowner feel! Why can't I (and my family & animals) be safe in my own home?

    How much more reckless does a bad neighbor get to act before we condemn the neighbor and not the horse owner? If he aims at her barn and it keeps catching fire, is the BO in the wrong for having a wood barn? If he aims at her paddocks and it explodes hitting a horse, is she wrong for keeping horses on her property?

    What if the guy aiming the fireworks was amused by the stampede and he intentionally aimed at the horse paddocks? Or worse a sadistic teen who is aiming right at the horses & barn? Would you still think the horseowner is in the wrong for being angry and feeling betrayed by the police who don't care?



  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jul. 5, 2002
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    http://www.town-and-country.org/
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    3,000

    Default sue the ba5tard

    you need video tape of the fireworks
    notarized statements
    bills for the injuries
    ask for lots of damages for the loss of your quiet enjoyment of your property.

    and if the BMW driving Idots should run over roofing nails TS.
    more hay, less grain



  6. #46
    Join Date
    Apr. 9, 2003
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    Sitting at my computer!
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    3,429

    Default

    Good grief people...! Play NICE!

    First I am sorry that the horse is hurt...jingles to him...

    Second, I must say I *LOVE* fireworks but they are illegal in my state....that said, when I got kicked in the head on Saturday evening because my neighbor was testing his illegal display as I was TRYING to get my horses in their stalls before his 4 night extravaganza began I can sympathize with the OP...

    the reason they are illegal in so many states is because they can be dangerous...they can hurt people, it is known to be the night that people's dogs take off in fear and ya know what...? Horses don't really like them either...

    I would not buy land near a known Fireworks location and I think I deserve to be fireworks free in my own backyard...and if they are illegal...the police should have come and shut them down - period. You can bet that if a neighbors child was hurt from the neighbors illegal fireworks they would pay for the medical bills...why should they not be responsible for this too...

    AND for those saying she should have put them in a stall OR tranq'ed? That doesn't guarantee their safety either...

    Bottom line - if the neighbor was engaging in illegal activity (EVEN THOUGH ITS 4th of JULY and everyone does it) then they should be held responsible. JMHO!
    PROUD MEMBER OF THE \"OMGiH I LOFF MY MARE\" CLIQUE



  7. #47
    Join Date
    Dec. 4, 2002
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    Dungeon of the Ivory Tower
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    20,394

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by armandh

    and if the BMW driving Idots should run over roofing nails TS.
    I loff the way you think! I'm so plebian, I just think about breaking legs, and I'm not of Italian extraction...though my parents did grow up in Brooklyn NY.
    www.specialhorses.org
    a 501(c)3 organization helping 501(c)3 equine rescues




  8. #48
    Join Date
    May. 17, 2000
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    Where am I and what am I doing in this handbasket?
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    Default

    MayS, you really have to show me where anyone is saying the neighbor is not at fault, not a complete idiot and that the police should not have done anything about it. Because if you are reading that, I think it must be on another thread or something.

    I think we all agree the neighbor is a world class idiot. Not much debate on that. As for the police, yes, they should have responded unless a more pressing emergency kept them too busy, no question there. But God only looks out for drunks and small children. The rest of us have to operate on the "be prepared" approach to life, yes? Because there are plenty of times that all the prep in the world won't save your bacon, so if you know bad shit is about to happen...

    If it were my farm, I'd have probably figured that the NYC carriage horses were, how shall we say it? "Bombproof" and passed on ace for them unless one showed me something about his personality & noise that left him a big question mark. And any horse recently off the track or on stall confinement because of injury would have been first in line for ace just in case.
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.



  9. #49
    Join Date
    May. 9, 2006
    Posts
    56

    Default Please try reading this DMK

    Mu VET said no to ace.

    I have one stall and it was taken AND my VET said to leave Devil in the paddock.

    I will inform her that you are smarter and
    SHE gave me bad advice and next time she should contact you.

    If 'this' is how my posts 'go' - whatever that means - perhaps you are forcing this kind of response.

    Devil is doing poorly everyone - please jingle for him.



  10. #50
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    Dec. 4, 2002
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    Dungeon of the Ivory Tower
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    Default

    And sending jingles for poor Devil...which, I thought, was the point of the OP...
    www.specialhorses.org
    a 501(c)3 organization helping 501(c)3 equine rescues




  11. #51
    Join Date
    May. 8, 2004
    Posts
    4,325

    Default

    No, I don't think anyone is trying to make the victim responsible for what happened, but if the police won't stop him and you have asked him to quit it, to no avail, you have to do everything in Your Power to keep your horses safe.
    I know, because I had a neighbor just like your Mr. Paglia, police like yours who weren't interested even though it was illegal (country town) and I just gave up that night every year to sit with my horses and do everything I could to keep them calm and safe.
    After our first nightmarish 4th of July next-door to our pyromaniac neighbor, I approached him and explained that his fireworks were landing on my barn and scaring my horses, causing a potential fire/disaster for both of us. They were very accomodating and moved the display to the other side of their property, complete with a huge bonfire, and whistling, booming, star-like fireworks. The real deal. Safer, but still incredibly loud and scary for my horses.
    Every 4th of July, I would sit in the barn with the horses in their stalls, cotton in their ears, plenty of hay and the radio cranked up to deaden the sound. They took their cue from me and after the first few shudders and shakes, they would be pretty much ok as long as they knew I was there.
    I just have to ask you why you didn't have your horses inside with something to distract them, and a mild tranq. for the high strung TB instead of taking a chance by leaving him outside to see and hear all that.

    I'm sure you love and care for your animals very well, and Mr. Paglia must be a first class '-ink with a d', if you told him about your situation and he carried on. I wish you all the best as you pursue this, and especially with the recovery for your TB. Maybe by some miracle, your neighbor will move.



  12. #52
    Join Date
    Nov. 8, 2000
    Location
    Upper Bucks County, PA
    Posts
    3,021

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PetsAlive
    Mu VET said no to ace.
    I will inform her that you are smarter and
    SHE gave me bad advice and next time she should contact you.
    Well, some times you have to go with your gut.

    My gut tells me that leaving an fresh-off-an-injury OTTB out in a paddock/pasture during a big fireworks display is probably a bad idea. Any attempt to lessen the "impact" of the fireworks (inside a stall or shed so the visual display is not as bad, ear plugs to deaden the noise, some type of sedative to take the edge off) is much better than hoping for the best and doing nothing, even if that is what your vet tells you to do.

    Many, many horse owners DO NOT have the option of calling the police or telling their neighbors to stop, so we have to resort to other means to cope. I'm not going to depend on others to protect my horses - that's my ultimate responsibility.
    Kelly Soldavin Harvest Moon Farm
    www.harvestmoonfarmpa.com



  13. #53
    Join Date
    Oct. 18, 2000
    Posts
    22,455

    Default

    I'll chime in again - I do hope the horse recovers.

    I heartily recommend reading up on the subject of compassion for those taking the opportunity to kick someone while they're down. Geez. I hope none of you are responsible for counseling victims of crime with that sort of attitude.



  14. #54
    Join Date
    Sep. 12, 2001
    Location
    Hotlanta
    Posts
    5,896

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PetsAlive
    How nice of you to rearrange my life for me.

    We did NOT have a stall available - we have another horse on stall rest in our small farm animal barn and he was not to be moved (just had surgery). But we moved him AFTER the fact to calm Devil down.

    Thanks for all your support and for knowing EXACTLY what I should have done.
    This is not about "rearranging your life for you," or about lack of support; myself and others have simply called it as we see it. Are we sorry the horse got hurt? Absolutely! Do we think your neighbors and the PD are a bunch of f-ing @ssholes? Absolutely! BUT, from what you've told us, there WAS more that could have been done to help keep the horse safe...so yes, we do know exactly what WE would have done. Of course it's all hindsight at this point, but at least now you know what your options are for the future.

    At any rate, rather than getting mad and lashing out at us, I'm sure your energies would be better spent on Devil's recovery. Has a vet seen him? What is the extent of the damage?



  15. #55
    Join Date
    Jul. 13, 2004
    Posts
    3,177

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by J Swan
    I heartily recommend reading up on the subject of compassion for those taking the opportunity to kick someone while they're down. Geez. I hope none of you are responsible for counseling victims of crime with that sort of attitude.
    Ditto. You said so much better what I was trying to say in my previous post.

    I don't get it sometimes. She needs a hug, not a beating.



  16. #56
    Join Date
    Feb. 25, 2004
    Location
    DFW
    Posts
    334

    Unhappy

    I feel really bad for this original poster. I know that it can be tough to know the right thing to do for a horse in this situation. Some vets would say leave him outside, some would say a stall. Hindsight is always 20/20.

    What really stinks is that her local police would not help her out at all....it sounds like she TRIED to get this taken care of before the show even started. She was pretty darn persistent it seems. The poice even promised to stop the show immediately.

    Our farm backs up to Southfork Ranch (Dallas) and they do a large f.w. show every 4th of July. Fortunately, the majority of horses at our farm are pretty unfazed by loud noises, etc. In the past, we have had horses who were more flighty and we always debated about how to handle them during the show. I have seen horses go crazy in a stall when they feel threatened or afraid. I don't know if stalling a horse is the answer if it is used to living in a paddock/run-in. There is also some risk involved in giving tranq. by injection. In fact, we have two horses who we cannot give injections to. period. I am quite sure our vet would need a tranq. gun in order to get them and even that might cause more harm than good. Talk about dangerous.



  17. #57
    Join Date
    Apr. 28, 2004
    Location
    Saratoga Springs, NY
    Posts
    4,565

    Default

    I sympathize, truly I do. But if this neighbor has pulled this crap before, then why leave the horses out? I mean, if there's a history there of him putting on illegal fireworks shows, were you honestly expecting him to NOT do it again this year, especially when the police have been less then helpful before? I hope the horse pulls through, and I hope the neighbor and police both get thier asses handed to them. But as owners, it's our responsibility to take reasonable precautions to ensure the well being of our pets. Which very well might mean bringing in an OTTB that just came off of stall rest. We have to use the common sense we were born with, especially when dealing with morons.



  18. #58
    Join Date
    May. 9, 2006
    Posts
    56

    Default What 'else' could I have done

    Quote Originally Posted by SBT
    This is not about "rearranging your life for you," or about lack of support; myself and others have simply called it as we see it. Are we sorry the horse got hurt? Absolutely! Do we think your neighbors and the PD are a bunch of f-ing @ssholes? Absolutely! BUT, from what you've told us, there WAS more that could have been done to help keep the horse safe...so yes, we do know exactly what WE would have done. Of course it's all hindsight at this point, but at least now you know what your options are for the future.

    At any rate, rather than getting mad and lashing out at us, I'm sure your energies would be better spent on Devil's recovery. Has a vet seen him? What is the extent of the damage?
    REPEATING:

    I did not have a stall.

    My vet said NO to ace or any other tranquillizer.

    His paddock btw is 3/4 of a mile from the 'neighbor' (we use the term 'neighbor' loosely up here as it is rural.

    Hi paddock and run-in shed face AWAY from the 'neighbor' and we have 1/2 mile of woods between us and Devil's paddock is lower than the trees.

    I have to disagree too that IF we had a stall he would not have been injured in it.

    He is out of the stall from stall rest for 3 months and was doing well - my only concern was that he would become sore if he ran too much. Not having tb's I didn't know you had to tranq them for everything BUT I DID ASK my vet and she said NO.

    We take extremely good care of the horses in our care and except for Devil (6 years old) they are all in their late 20's, 30's and we have three in their 40's. My concern is ALWAYS for their welfare and comfort and I seriously resent your implying that I don't do enough.

    If I felt I didn't do enough I would admit it (not that I would have to since you are all so quick to point out IN SPITE OF WHAT I HAVE TOLD YOU ABOUT THE SITUATION that I was wrong anyway.

    Re: my posts 'going that way' - if you will notice I have less than THIRTY posts, some of which were to offer HELP to posters - not nearly the 16,000 some odd that some of you have. I will have to spend less time with the horses so that I can offer others the same kind of 'help' I am receiving here.

    Now please tell me what I could have done.



  19. #59
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    Dec. 4, 2002
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    Dungeon of the Ivory Tower
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    20,394

    Default

    Just from my own personal experience - stalling my horse if he was in a lather would be a Very Bad Idea. Sounds like the OP had no choice but to suffer the consequences - too bad we couldn't have wrangled up a COTH posse, armed and dangerous, to go over and "talk" to the neighbor...
    www.specialhorses.org
    a 501(c)3 organization helping 501(c)3 equine rescues




  20. #60
    Join Date
    May. 16, 2006
    Location
    MN
    Posts
    1,308

    Default

    The abuse of money is pathetic.

    And the little bitches that follow them hoping for a small piece of the pie...yuk. The police in your town are sickening.

    I don't know how to solve your problem. My advise next year would be to heavily sedate the horses at risk when loud noise like fireworks are going on.

    You might want to also get some cement and put some speed bumps in front of your house. A lady did that in my old neighborhood because she ran a daycare and the neighbors kids went by at about 40 mph. That slowed em down.
    I've got the 3 things men want. I'm hot, and I'm smart!

    -The 6th Member Of The Bareback Riders Clique-



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