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  1. #21
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    Sep. 12, 2001
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    Levi, she only had an issue with this one horse. A shot of acepromazine costs $10 from the vet, less if you do it yourself. A stall was available AFTER the fact; why wasn't it available beforehand?

    Again, you CAN'T control what other people do. You can't control the neighbors, and you can't control the police department. You can only control your own situation. If PA had focused on that, instead of on what the "rich neighbors" and "crooked police" were doing, IMO the horse would not have been injured.

    JMHO, of course.



  2. #22
    Join Date
    May. 9, 2006
    Posts
    56

    Default Proper Restraint?

    Quote Originally Posted by county
    I'd say the horse may die because it wasn't properly restrained when the owner knew very well it should have been. Got nothing to do with the police.

    Its called being responsable for your livestock.
    We put up a new and secure 1/2 acre paddock for Devil when he arrived - 2 x 6 oak boards and a 14 x 24 run in shed with a gate because he had to be stall rested for six months for his track injuries.

    How on earth would we have tranquillized him for this? If you remember the police said as soon as I called them they would stop it.

    PS - with this sort of thinking I would highly recommend that if you have daughters you keep them locked in the house in case any of the men in your neighborhood 'may' molest them.



  3. #23
    Join Date
    May. 9, 2006
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    56

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    Quote Originally Posted by SBT
    Levi, she only had an issue with this one horse. A shot of acepromazine costs $10 from the vet, less if you do it yourself. A stall was available AFTER the fact; why wasn't it available beforehand?

    Again, you CAN'T control what other people do. You can't control the neighbors, and you can't control the police department. You can only control your own situation. If PA had focused on that, instead of on what the "rich neighbors" and "crooked police" were doing, IMO the horse would not have been injured.

    JMHO, of course.

    How nice of you to rearrange my life for me.

    We did NOT have a stall available - we have another horse on stall rest in our small farm animal barn and he was not to be moved (just had surgery). But we moved him AFTER the fact to calm Devil down.

    Thanks for all your support and for knowing EXACTLY what I should have done.



  4. #24
    Join Date
    Aug. 18, 2003
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    Brenham, TX
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    I certainly understand you are upset. I would be upset too. BUT, if you will take a deep breath and consider for a moment that 1) you were particularly worried about this one horse and 2) there was a stall available to put him in AFTER he injured himself - you can see how in hindsight it would have been prudent to put him in that stall before the fireworks started. And it WOULD have been possible to also tranq him since there was concern about him in particular. Obviously nothing can change what happened now.

    However, I would hope that a lesson learned from this would at least be to take EVERY safeguard you can possibly take when you KNOW there is going to be a situation that might be dangerous for a particular horse. This is much, much different than trying to prevent everything that MIGHT happen in the world. You can't do that. But, you can prepare for situations you KNOW are going to happen.

    I don't think anyone disagrees that the neighbor should NOT be shooting off illegal fireworks and the police SHOULD be stopping illegal activity. But, precautions should still be taken instead of relying on others to do what they should in a timely manner.

    Edited to add that I see the stall was really not available. But, you did say in a post that the horse's shed has a gate on it. Was there a reason he could not ahve been shut in the shed? The 4th of July is always a stressful time for horse owners because of fireworks. It's not an easy thing to deal with but it is something that should be planned for well in advance. I don't think many police departments make stopping illegal fireworks a huge priority. I think a lot of PD's just don't have the resources available to do that. However, they certainly should be providing you better answers than they are.
    Triple J Ranch Sporthorses
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  5. #25
    Join Date
    Mar. 1, 2005
    Location
    maryland
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    5,219

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PetsAlive
    How on earth would we have tranquillized him for this? If you remember the police said as soon as I called them they would stop it.

    PS - with this sort of thinking I would highly recommend that if you have daughters you keep them locked in the house in case any of the men in your neighborhood 'may' molest them.
    I'm on your side: there are laws in place to protect you. Every year the neighbor ignores them. He is never cited. Police think it's all a joke. Why should you have to tranq a horse on your own property to protect him from someone else's illegal actions. If the neighbor started a rifle range in his back yard and a bullet his one of your horses, would you be wrong for not having bulletproof vests on the horses?!

    A year ago here my @#$ neighbors did this without warning driving my poor lame old QH into a panic for hours. I called the police 3x and they never showed up. Their excuse: they were "busy". My neighbors were asked to please stop, and their reply was to fire the @#$# things right over my roof and horses' heads.

    If this is the police chief, you can't easily go over his head to file a complaint for inaction. You could make a public stink over it, maybe get the newspaper involved. Do a big story on the dangers of fireworks, how harmful they are, and include among the cases your own horse.

    Write down everyone you talk to and at what time!

    You may have grounds for a civil case. Was your neighbor ever made aware his fireworks were causing harm to the horses? If you can show he was aware they were a threat, perhaps you can at least sue for damages to the horse. Maybe just dragging him through Small Claims (whether you win or not) is enough to make a point. Do be aware you probably can't claim "pain and suffering" but you could claim vet bills, loss of use, and any financial harm it's doing to your farm's buisness/reputation.

    As much of a jerk as this neighbor is, you may need to cover your butt and write him a letter (cert mail / return recipt). Politely explain that perhaps he wasn't aware these fireworks were illegal. And then explain briefly & professionally the harm they're doing to your horses. This way should he continue to torment your animals, he can't claim in court he had no idea he was harming anyone. Do it in writing so he can't "forget" he was asked to stop.

    One other avenue is to hire a lawyer to get a restraining order against him for use of fireworks. This way he'd be violating a court order and he'd be hauled in front of a judge to explain himself.

    Keep all reciepts,records, phone log, any anything else. You could even keep bits of his fireworks you find on your property to prove they were set off and they were aimed irresponsibly.

    It might behoove you to consult with a good atty even if you don't sue. Sounds like this problem isn't going to solve itself.



  6. #26
    Join Date
    Nov. 22, 2003
    Location
    Virginia
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    7,136

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    One, media. This sounds like a GREAT story!!! And second, you say hte police department is being "monitored" for bad behavior by the Attorney General's office. Contact the monitors.



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar. 23, 2005
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    Portland, Oregon
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PetsAlive
    We put up a new and secure 1/2 acre paddock for Devil when he arrived - 2 x 6 oak boards and a 14 x 24 run in shed with a gate because he had to be stall rested for six months for his track injuries.

    How on earth would we have tranquillized him for this? If you remember the police said as soon as I called them they would stop it.

    PS - with this sort of thinking I would highly recommend that if you have daughters you keep them locked in the house in case any of the men in your neighborhood 'may' molest them.
    So why could he not be closed into the run-in that had served as his stall for his stall rest?

    And you tranquilize the horse by calling the vet and saying, "I'd like some Ace because my neighbors have big fireworks and it is going to really upset my TB." Then you either have the vet come and give it, or you give it yourself. Pretty simple, really. And if the neighbors DIDN'T set off the fireworks, you'd just have an extra-sleepy horse for the night. Not a big deal.

    And if you have daughters, I hope that you do not plan on moving to a neighborhood with registered sex offenders, and then complaining that the police allowed them to live near you.
    Proud member of the EDRF



  8. #28
    Join Date
    Oct. 26, 2005
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    Deep South
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    I'm not going to pass judgment because I was not there and don't know enought about the situation. I'm sure you thought you were doing what was right at the time. Many horse owners don't have stalls, but we all know fireworks freak animals out. As far as a**hole neighbors go, I fell for you there. The more you protest, the more bottle rockets they send your way. It's a sad situation when law enforcement sucks like that - I reported a clear case of animal abuse here weeks ago and nothing was ever done. Very frustrating.
    I would try civil court, though....it might stop their antics in the future. Good luck and we will be jingling for Devil!
    SPAY/NEUTER/RESCUE/ADOPT!
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  9. #29

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    Its called common sense. You obviously don't use it. To bad for the horse.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.



  10. #30
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    May. 17, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetsAlive
    How on earth would we have tranquillized him for this?
    Let's see... on Monday AM you could call your vet and say "Ya know, there's this idiot next to me that sets off fireworks illegally every year and the police don't seem to do a thing about it. Since I know an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure ,and as much as I love you, I don't want to see you in the wee hours of the night with an emergency, I'd like to pick up a bottle of ace ($30ish). Is that OK with you?"

    At which point the vet would have most likely agreed, told you that you could even give it orally if you were not comfortable giving IM shots, given you advice on how early you should give it and what dose you should give to whom.

    Yes, it sucks your neighbors were like that, but if you want to work with horses (especially OTTBs) you probably need to figure out that you have to be a bit more pre-emptive with 1000+ pound animals.

    Didn't you come on and post about an OTTB you picked up from Exceller then get all in a huff whe people weren't quite agreeing with you 100%? Is this going to turn out like that thread?
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.



  11. #31
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    Dec. 4, 2002
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    Dungeon of the Ivory Tower
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    Wow. I guess I am in the minority here...as I understand it, the woman runs a rescue. By definition, that means there probably isn't a lot to go around (or I wouldn't be sending donations the way I do).

    These weren't bottle rockets either, from what I gather - this was an extended display of professional fireworks. EVEN IN MISSOURI, the backwash of the US, and #1 in crystal meth labs, private citizens holding a display like this isn't allowed (but of course, it does happen illegally).

    I think for inside dogs to go jumping through windows suggests this went above and beyond the normal kids blowing off firecrackers.

    And frankly, in my opinion, this guy's right to have this kind of exhibition stops when it invades others' peoples domain. And I act on this - the Archdiosece here has a huge party every summer. I live a block away. With all my windows shut and the TV blaring I still can't hear the TV - and this goes on till past 1 AM. You bet I call the cops, every half hour. I don't care who the archbishop is. It's a private party, fine. But not when my windows shake from the noise.

    At least I was never so severely injured I needed to be put on stall rest. And to be honest...locking a frantic hot horse up in a stall when he wants to "go" - that would have been just as ugly.

    Just my opinion, for what that's worth.
    Last edited by DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"; Jul. 5, 2006 at 04:24 PM.
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  12. #32
    Join Date
    Dec. 7, 2001
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    Cullowhere?, NC
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    I have a horse who was confined to his stall, on stall rest, on July 4th two years ago, when the neighbors started their display (alas, legal in my area).

    To this day, he has to be led into that stall by hand, he will not go in willingly and be confined. If he's in the stall during a thunderstorm or loud rain or hail, he freaks out completely.

    I'm not certain that confining this horse further was the solution. Particularly if the fireworks were illegal in the first place. Particularly when the police said they'd stop it. Particularly when the care-taker took every effort to be pro-active about the event.

    Hope the poor horse recovers.
    "One person's cowboy is another person's blooming idiot" -- katarine

    Spay and neuter. Please.



  13. #33
    Join Date
    May. 9, 2006
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    56

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    We did NOT have a stall available - it was being used by the horse who had surgery.

    I was worried about Devil running around - who would have thought he would break through very 'secure' fencing?

    I have tried to talk to the neighbor for years. Last year he was stopped (by the SP) from having this event within one minute after it started as they were waiting on the road for it to start.

    There were NO OTHER police calls at the time of this event - I went to the station this morning and checked the blotter.

    I did everything I could to stop it and quite frankly would never tranq a horse except on my vet's recommendation - the last thing I would need is to have him fall in a stall, even if I had one and she (the vet) said that acepromazine (which I asked about) could have the opposite effect of not calming him down and get cast. I do not have 'night help' but had convinced my horse caretaker to come in last night to help me keep them calm should there be a problem. We were actually having the 'grandaddy' of thunderstorms here and I really didn't think the fireworks would happen in the middle of that. The thunderstorm didn't bother the horses (we have had many in the last month) but the booms and colored lights exploding overhead were more than Devil could handle.

    I am so glad to know that you are all so much wiser than my vet and I am and I am grateful for your display of compassion and help. I am sure that none of you will have any harm come to your horses as you are all so well prepared. How lucky you are.



  14. #34
    Join Date
    Aug. 22, 2002
    Location
    Austin, TX
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    1,714

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    I feel for you too. It IS LEGAL for my neighbors to shoot them off. Every year (New Year's Eve and Fourth of July) we stay at home and watch to see if anyone will be upset by the fireworks. Most of the time it is totally uneventful.

    I have sale horses, so the chances of having one on any given holiday that has not been through the neighbor's fireworks is pretty high. I had one that was sensitive to noise at the shows (loudspeakers really set him off). I kept him in with his earplugs, radio playing in the barn and Aced. That was not enough for him, so I spent the evening in the stall with him haltered so he could not go out the window.

    Most of mine are TBs, last night the two WB mares got to walking the fenceline for a few minutes, but that was about it.

    You just have to do what you have to do. I routinely drugged the spooky one I have the first couple of times, but he doesn't seem to mind the fireworks, lord knows there are enough other things that set him off.



  15. #35
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    Apr. 12, 2005
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    Maryland
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    620

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    I am so sorry and hope your horse recovers. Perhaps a local lawyer can help you find ways to stop this next year.



  16. #36
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    Your vet was probably talking about ace after the fact. You really don't want to give it to a panicked horse, that is for sure.

    And unfortunately, with a little bit of experience, you will learn that horses will indeed run through "secure" fencing. There's only two kinds of fencing to a panicked horse: The kind they get over and the kind they crash into while trying to get over.
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.



  17. #37
    Join Date
    Mar. 20, 2001
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    Colorado, a suburb of Los Angeles
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    6,660

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MayS
    Why should you have to tranq a horse on your own property to protect him from someone else's illegal actions.
    Because you have to make a choice about priorities.
    Is the priority protecting the horse from harm to the very best of your ability in spite of the idiotic and illegal activities going on next door?
    Or is your priority assigning blame and seeking damages after the fact?

    As others have said, you can't control the idiots next door and given the history you can't count on local law enforcement. Two bad things out of your control.
    You can take action to prevent harm from being done at your end of the problem. Who knows, maybe shutting the horse in wouldn't have kept him from hurting himself, but it might have and that action is under your control, the people breaking the law aren't.



  18. #38
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    May. 17, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetsAlive
    I am so glad to know that you are all so much wiser than my vet and I am and I am grateful for your display of compassion and help. I am sure that none of you will have any harm come to your horses as you are all so well prepared. How lucky you are.
    Whew, good thing this IS going the way of your other posts! You had me worried there for a minute!
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.



  19. #39
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    Oct. 18, 2000
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    Just fyi for those who call the sheriff in cases like this - often you'll get a better response from the state, not the county. In counties where the sheriff is elected - well - politics and $ could play roles they shouldn't.

    This comes directly from my stepsister - who is a state trooper. We spoke on just this topic a few weekends ago because of a problem I was having.

    Hope the horse is ok - no matter what you did the animal could have been hurt - in the field, in the stall, in the paddock - don't beat yourself up. Had you tranquilized the horse and that went wrong for some reason, you would beat yourself up about that too.



  20. #40
    Join Date
    Mar. 23, 2005
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    Portland, Oregon
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    Um, if you aren't prepared for other points of view, don't post on a public BB.

    Obviously, you find out how the horse reacts to Ace first. If you haven't given it to him before, you find a day when you have some time, have the vet out (or just go buy from the vet), and give him a dose. If he reacts poorly, then you don't give him that again. Try Quietex, perhaps, if you are so concerned, and/or, as many suggested, earplugs. But do SOMETHING! As it is, you basically allowed your horse to be seriously injured just so you could make a point. I hope you enjoy making it, because the horse sure won't.

    I don't think anyone here is supporting your neighbors. OF COURSE what they did was wrong. OF COURSE it was wrong of the police not to respond. OF COURSE they should all be in appropriate forms of trouble. But that does not absolve you of YOUR responsibility to YOUR animals.

    And no, none of us are perfect. A couple of months ago, I got into an accident on the trail with my 3 y/o. It was totally my fault, because I didn't realize all of what was going on. I felt AWFUL about it. My 3 y/o felt pretty bad, too, though she recovered quickly and fully (thank God!). The thing is, though, that I admit it is my fault, and am not trying to blame others for something I could have prevented myself.
    Proud member of the EDRF



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