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  1. #1
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    Default Genuine Question on Slaughter - Please No Flamethrowers

    After many recommendations from people on this Board I read the book After the Finish line by Bill Heller. In one of the interviews the person mentions seeing killer trucks lined up outside a Texas slaughter house and horses being unloaded and killed. My question - isn't there a waiting time for drugs to clear the body? Are the French eating horse meat w/ wormer, steroids, etc. in the meat?
    "You gave your life to become the person you are right now. Was it worth it?" Richard Bach



  2. #2
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    As far as I understand it, yes, they are. Mmmm, I'll have a side of carcinogens with that stew!
    The plural of anecdote is not data.



  3. #3
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    Default

    It is my understanding that the horses are processed immediately upon arrival at the plant. It is possible, though, that they have been in transit or at a feed lot long enough for most of the "drugs" to have cleared the body but there are still traces present in the meat, I am sure.

    So to the horse-meat eating Europeans, I say: "Bon appetite mon ami."
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- "When they try to tell you these are your Golden years, don't believe 'em.... It's rust."



  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Calhoun
    After many recommendations from people on this Board I read the book After the Finish line by Bill Heller. In one of the interviews the person mentions seeing killer trucks lined up outside a Texas slaughter house and horses being unloaded and killed. My question - isn't there a waiting time for drugs to clear the body? Are the French eating horse meat w/ wormer, steroids, etc. in the meat?
    Yes they are. Because the FDA doesnt recognize horses as potential "food" there are no rules about stopping medications etc, before selling the animal (which could potentially go to slaughter). The slaughterhouses themselves (in the U.S.) may have a period of time that they "hold" the horse before it is slaughtered...I don't know for sure. I know the ones in Canada do not. It sounds like, from what you read, they don't..and I would trust what you have read.

    We can all hope that they are...(eating food w/dewormer in it, I mean. ) Ok, thats my Dr. Evil side coming out...sorry.
    I've got the 3 things men want. I'm hot, and I'm smart!

    -The 6th Member Of The Bareback Riders Clique-



  5. #5
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    Default

    And to all the barbarians who eat horse meat, seasoned with a little ivermectin, strongid, with a hint of isoxoprine, and the ever so subtle base flavor of banamine......mmmmmmmmm, good..... :~(

    ~Sneekers & Valentine~

    (Oh, by the way, Valentine is the "steak that got away")



  6. #6
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    Default

    To me the fact that they are eating meat contaminated with who knows what is the only justice in this whole affair. I hope they choke on it as well.



  7. #7
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    Default

    Here is an article posted on another thread, written by one of the founding editors of USA Today, that addresses your question: Warning:Horse May be Hazardous
    "There's something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man" ~ Sir Winston Churchill



  8. #8
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    Default

    Well, I'm zipping up my flame suit, but we, horse-loving omnivores also consume meat that is full of yuck. Take, for example, all the things that are added to chicken.

    Quoting from the whfoods.com website:

    If possible, purchase chicken that has been organically raised or that is "free-range" since these methods of poultry raising are both more humane and produce chickens that are both tastier and better for your health. Organically grown chickens have been fed an organically grown diet and have been raised without the use of hormones or antibiotics. Free-range chickens are allowed access to the outdoors as opposed to being confined to the henhouse.

    Federal statistics show that cases of antibiotic-resistant campylobacter are rising, and a FDA investigation concluded that the use of antiobiotics in chicken production is one significant cause. The FDA's Center for Veterinary Medicine has proposed a ban on using these drugs in poultry because of evidence that the drug's use in chicken can cause people to get sick from drug-resistant bacteria. At issue is a family of antibiotics called fluoroquinolones. Some fluoroquinolones are sold to treat animals, but others are a leading treatment for humans who get food poisoning from campylobacter, a bacterium found mostly in chicken. Humans have used fluoroquinolones since the 1980s, but resistance didn't begin significantly increasing until veterinarians started using the drugs in the mid-1990s, according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

    Certainly Horse slaughter does not have a cornerstone on either inhumane practices OR unclean butchered meat. As for being barbarians, I'd say someone of the Hindi opinion definitely agrees that we are.
    the things that i had not ought to
    i do because i ve gotto
    wotthehell wotthehell



  9. #9
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GansMyMan
    Well, I'm zipping up my flame suit, but we, horse-loving omnivores also consume meat that is full of yuck. Take, for example, all the things that are added to chicken.

    Quoting from the whfoods.com website:

    If possible, purchase chicken that has been organically raised or that is "free-range" since these methods of poultry raising are both more humane and produce chickens that are both tastier and better for your health. Organically grown chickens have been fed an organically grown diet and have been raised without the use of hormones or antibiotics. Free-range chickens are allowed access to the outdoors as opposed to being confined to the henhouse.
    For those who prefer their chickens sans antibotics, etc, pastured poultry, courtesy of moi:

    http://www.foxhallnj.com/comingsummer.html

    (And as a fyi, all of the meat we eat we either grow ourselves, our neighbors grow it or Mr. RR shoots it. There ain't nothing in my freezer that has had anything artificial in its system. And I know exactly how it was all processed and who did the deed.

    I do tend to agree with Gans - I am not inclined to describe people who eat horses as barbarians - mostly because I eat all kinds of stuff that appalls someone somewhere, cows and deer being the two that spring to mind immediately. I'm not sure that eating chicken appalls an entire religion, but it certainly appalls vegans.)



  10. #10
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    Jumping Paints, good article and answers all my questions. The journalist, John Hanchette thinks like me and does it w/ a good sense of humor.
    Last paragraph in the article:


    "And to those politically correct of you who devour horsemeat and boast about it as part of your culture, but should be spending that time consulting your oncologist ...

    Bon appetit, you snooty bastards".
    "You gave your life to become the person you are right now. Was it worth it?" Richard Bach



  11. #11
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GansMyMan
    Well, I'm zipping up my flame suit, but we, horse-loving omnivores also consume meat that is full of yuck. Take, for example, all the things that are added to chicken.
    Hey Gans - that is why I only eat organic meat!!

    The issue of horsemeat vs. other livestock meat is nicely summed up by this quote "the Exceller Fund president points out, "horses are not raised in this country to be food animals. There is no oversight on the medications, topical treatments, steroids, hormones and other substances, both legal and illegal, given to horses on an almost daily basis." So if residues are being found in commercially raised livestock that have standards for meds, imagine the residues in the horses, where there are no regs. As Laurierace said, maybe this is only justice of it all.

    Calhoun - glad you liked the article. Now if we could just get the French media to read it!
    "There's something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man" ~ Sir Winston Churchill



  12. #12
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    The only reason horses are held for 30 days before going to Canada (I don't know about mexico) is for regular quarantine purposes. They cannot be taken out of this because they are mixed with horses that have no coggins test. So once they hit that quarantine station (actually the truck going there) there literally is no turning back. The only exception would be an obviously stolen horse in the load.

    But otherwise no there is no withdrawal time although some dealers don't use any wormers, medications, etc. on canner horses. I'm not sure WHY though (except maybe the real reason is to be cheap?) because you can haul any old horse up to the slaughter plant itself and it will go to the head of the line along with all its lifetime of carcinogens and antibiotics and god knows what else. But apparently horse meat diners are not coming down with an above average rate of well, anything or one would think the demand would drop sharply!!
    Every mighty oak was once a nut that stood its ground.

    Proud Closet Canterer! Member Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.



  13. #13
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    Summerhorse, we can however, keep our fingers crossed ;~)



  14. #14
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Sneekers
    Summerhorse, we can however, keep our fingers crossed ;~)

    And our toes and our arms... =)
    Every mighty oak was once a nut that stood its ground.

    Proud Closet Canterer! Member Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.



  15. #15
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    Default

    You are actually all absolutely wrong and aside from the issues regarding eating horse meat you need to be aware that in Europe the rules for tracing what has gone into stock to go into the food chain is much much more rigid and more highly regulated than it is in the USA.

    Likewise our drug regulations are more strict - for instance you can't just buy bute over the counter and administer it yourself - it has by law to be prescribed by a vet who has checked the horse and ensured that bute is the right treatment and also administered by a competent person.

    So In Europe all horses have to be passported (and showing the horses individual identification marks and/or microchip and freezebrand details) and no horse is permitted to be administered drugs by anyone without the passport being signed off to indicate what was given, the date and why etc. Also the horse's legal owner declares on the passport whether or not he/she wishes the horse NEVER to go in the food chain.

    In any event even if the owner says they want the horse to go in the food chain, if drugs have been administered it can't until they are clear.



  16. #16
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    Thomas - don't confuse these people with facts - you'll just be labeled a pro-slaughter monster or some such nonsense.

    The EU does indeed have stricter regulation - in the US our ag dept is promulgating the National Animal Identification System - mostly so that American meat will meet import requirements of various nations- we can still be competitive in international markets. I believe the US did adopt the European frequency for our RFID chips - again so we can participate in a global market.

    As far as I know we won't be adopting the passport system - but NAIS is supposed to capture similar information. However, the chip will only produce a premises ID number, which only certain people like the state vet can access via a databse to produce any information about the owner or animal. (at least until a hacker steals the data!)

    Anyway - for the person who asked the question - if you care so much about what's in horsemeat - I wouldn't examine your chicken or pork very closely - horsemeat is not half as bad as what you find in a glass of milk. Do you know how much pus is allowed in milk per the USDA? PUS? In our milk?????

    Besides - Since when did Europe or any other country give a fig about what we say? There have been many campaigns in Europe - by PETA mostly - trying to "educate" Europeans about American horsemeat. Fell upon deaf ears - the world does not hang upon every utterance emitted by the US or its citizens.

    If they get the trots from eating American horsemeat - who cares?



  17. #17
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    Thomas and JSwan, thanks for the insight. Since I'm an anti-anti-slaughter, I appreciate learning all I can about rules and regulations, and how they're enforced.

    And does anyone realize that "free range" only means that the animal has to have access to the outside? Doesn't indicate that they have to be able to run around. A tiny pen attached to whatever structure houses the animals is considered "outside", and thus they can be labeled as free range.

    I don't want to think about what's allowable in any processed food, regardless of whether or not it's meat.
    The plural of anecdote is not data.



  18. #18
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    Thomas, I think you've actually reinforced the point.

    The Eu has strict guidelines.
    The US does not, because horses are not raised here for human food.
    We ship our horses, after slaughter to Europe.
    These are the same horses we raised not to be food animals and administered whatever OTC or RX med we thought necessary for the animals care.

    So regardless of what your strict rules are over there, the horsemeat you get from the US IS full of stuff you might not want in your meal.

    Unless you were trying to say that you test the meat from the US and trash that which does not meet your standards? But this is not how I read your post.



  19. #19
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    I understand if you are raising a horse in Europe, that's how it is.
    But what about all the meat being imported for human consumption from non European countries? Is it tested and at what point? I would think the meat would be transported cooled or frozen, and forgive me for being graphic, but is it as "sides" or is it ground? As horses can come from any venue, not just a "ranch that might be under USDA auspices/tracking, Horse A could be free of nasties, but Horse B could have come from an EPA quarantine site. So Horse A steak may be a good choice, but Horse A/B hamburg may not.
    I have an uneasiness with people eating horsemeat (also raw oysters, sushi, frog legs, okra, etc), but I realize things aren't the same everywhere. I just question how safe it is since it is not a highly regulated industry.
    Geez, I've totally lost my point, and my appetite.



  20. #20
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    Now you know why I raise nearly all of my own food. Meat, (chicken, lamb, beef and pork) egg, dairy, veggies, and grains. I want to know what my food ate before I eat it.

    There are ways to cheat any system if you so desire. No reason to get all upset with any single area of the market. How about the human manure fertilized veggies from Mexico? Pestiside residual on veggies? You could drive yourself loony worrying abuot what is in this or that. Unless you raise it yourself you have NO idea. But that will never happen, don't you know that you get milk from the store?

    Don't kid yourself with the organic and or freerange crap. I have "certified" at various items at various times easy to do and easier to cheat on. Like the whole BST free ad campaign with the dairy industry. ALL milk has BST it is as natural in a lactating cow as insulin. It is a protien and therefor must be injected. They found that cows that overachieved in the milk barn produced more BST than cows that underachived. So the underachivers get a little bit of encouragement to perfom. The media and scare tactic types make a big deal about nothing. (Personally I am a dairy farmer and don't use BST, but that is discussion for another time.)

    Chill out folks,
    LF



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