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  1. #21
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    Dec. 31, 2000
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    Quote from Breyerfest rules-

    " If the horse has a tendency to tip over, you may show it lying down. Only then may you use a piece of felt/towel/cloth for the horse to lie on (no bigger than 8 1/2 x 11 inches."
    Hillary Clinton - proven liar, cheat, traitor and defender of rapists! Anyone but Hillary 2016! https://www.facebook.com/AntiHillary2016



  2. #22
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    Feb. 16, 2006
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    Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom
    So for explanations on what your horse is doing, I guess writing on the cards..

    "Fluffy, standing with no tack"
    " Fluffy standing with tack."
    "Fluffy, standing in front of a jump with tack"

    isn't quite what they are after??????


    Sorry, it just seems really whacked to me. But whatever floats your boat. Seems like something fun for the 12 and under kids, but adults doing it just seems strange. Kind of like those "fake baby doll" meetings where people bring dolls and all kinds of props.
    Could you imagine being a man on a date, and being told that your date has a Breyer model show they need to go get ready for? I'd be running for the hills!
    Jetsmom... my hero for today



  3. #23
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    Aug. 25, 1999
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    Holland Township, NJ
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    Forgot a good link: www.modelhorsesalespages.com What it sounds like, so you can see what is hot and what's not, but at the very top of the home page, is a link for "Links". I will warn you, not much house keeping gets done on the list o' links, so there are plenty of broken ones. Fun if you are bored and are willing to search thru the junk to find the good stuff.



  4. #24
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    Aug. 25, 1999
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    Holland Township, NJ
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    So, I get it, Coup and Jet, you just like insulting people, I understand now.

    Forget what I said about getting cranky.

    Then again, I should know better than let the narrow minded get me angry.



  5. #25
    Join Date
    Sep. 13, 2000
    Location
    AZ
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    473

    Cool I don't know...

    For some reason I find the whole thing a bit creepy. But I dont like clowns or dolls either so maybe I just have issues - more than likely



  6. #26
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    Aug. 25, 1999
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    Holland Township, NJ
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    Well, if dolls freak you out, then I get it. I'm sure not going to pick on someone with a phobia.

    Maybe if you view it as art instead it would be less creepy. Plenty of people just collect, they never show or anything. They just like having equine art around, and this is 3-D. It's grown far past plastic Breyers in the toy store. Artists are sculpting orginals and having them cast in resin. The difference is astounding. The molds for Breyers are steel and very durable, but can't have the same level of details. So small things, like little bumps and wrinkles on muzzles, and deep undercuts get lost. The resins (and originals) don't have those limitations. Once painted, it's hard to look at one and believe it's not real! In a photo, any way.

    It's the people who think they are clever and are insulting that make me angry.



  7. #27
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    Feb. 16, 2006
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    Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChelseaR
    For some reason I find the whole thing a bit creepy. But I dont like clowns or dolls either so maybe I just have issues - more than likely
    It's kind of wierd when lots of these people have real horses they should be spending time with.

    I hate clowns too. My mum has a really old doll from when she was a little girl.. the doll scares me. I keep it in a drawer.



  8. #28
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    Mar. 23, 2005
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    Portland, Oregon
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    It seems to me that some people need to learn to laugh at themselves sometimes.

    If everything in life is so serious, how do you ever have any fun? Lighten up!

    Yeah, sometimes non-horse people make cracks about riding. Rather than jump on them like they have just committed one of the seven deadly sins, I laugh and make some other wisecrack in return. That way, they realize that I'm not actually walking around with stick up my butt looking down my nose at everyone - plus my life stays a lot more fun.

    Honestly, if you can't take a step back and see how "showing" model horses could be funny to someone, then I wonder how insular your life is.



  9. #29
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    Dec. 31, 2000
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    El Paso, TX
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    Kemantari- thanks for being more eloquent than I. You explained it much better.


    Pat and the Breyer show people...I apologize if I offended you. That wasn't my intent, but I do think the idea of it is really funny!
    I could see customizing them, or making collectible resin ones, but just "off the shelf" "showing" is too funny.
    Hillary Clinton - proven liar, cheat, traitor and defender of rapists! Anyone but Hillary 2016! https://www.facebook.com/AntiHillary2016



  10. #30
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    May. 16, 2001
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    Alaska. Not in an Igloo.
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    8,994

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    I collect Beanie babies. They sit in a box.

    I suppose this is at least USING the expensive collection
    Seig Heil Polo Shirt!



  11. #31
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2005
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    uk
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    very nice neddys

    altho iam not a collector and dont have neds like that i do have a china shire sitting on dispaly cabinet well afew actually

    for those that are being dont quite undertsand the reasoning why people collect then let me put it another way for you in simple mans terms

    does one not collect pairs of earings to wear in certain places--clubs bars resterants, fun. school, college. whatever....

    does not have have a varierity of tack-- ie saddle cloths bits briddles rugs whatever--

    would it be worng of oneself to say that i find you wacky in your collection i think not---

    the point is everyone has diffrent tastes in things - some collect crystals some collect orniments-- and some collect models.

    some even show there models ie what we have here-- model horses but would you be of the same if i said my hubby collect model aircraft and shows them people demi straight them fly them -- as in ww1 and 2 they make replicars of said planes boats ships - and yes toy soilders - trains- station s

    if its a past time you enjoy as to like me with my neds then you should not be disrespectful -- i could be more so

    like now do you not collect items in yourbathroom -i bet i could name all that you use or dont --


    everyone collects things everyone has a past time wether it be real live or not
    and lastly i owuld like to say to you that dont understand maybe those that collect and show a model horse cant afford a real one and this is there way of having something -- liike for instance a kid who hasnt got any money but has got a model horse so she shows it in model classes and dreams of one day owning a horse like her model -- then you should not take away ones dreams



  12. #32
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    Mar. 7, 2006
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    51

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    This was supposed to be an informative thread, I believe. A few of you, obviously, don't want to learn more about it. Maybe you can see after a few joking comments, how it could grow old? I think they understand that you think it's funny. Now let them get back to explaining it to those who are interested.



  13. #33
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    Nov. 9, 2005
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    uk
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    plus-- in some instances films have been made by using replicar models of wars and civals wars if it was not for the delicate and compassion that people spend making these models so real to life then the good old film maker wouldnt be in the position they are now -- so not a whacky subject to collect or be collected

    pat love the saddles could you make me a top notch set for my car



  14. #34
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    Oct. 2, 1999
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    People like to collect things. Who knows why. And, when you have a collection, it's fun to meet other collectors and show your collection off.

    I know people with enormous collections of Breyers and the like. I also know people with enormous collections of real horses, and who keep acquiring even when they don't have time for the ones they have already. I think the plastic is healthier.

    So anyway, back in the late 60's and early 70's, collectors started getting together. Since then, it's evolved into some pretty sophisticated stuff. To show your model horse at North American Nationals, it must have won a first or second place ribbon at a member show somewhere else during the past two years. Some of the horses exhibited will have last sold for a couple of dollars at a flea market. Some will have last sold for a few thousand. Some were purchased at a toy store for the retail sticker. Some will have been created from scratch by the person exhibiting them from wire and clay. NAN in Kentucky has had 200-300 individual exhibitors, and is held in the enormous Heritage Hall in downtown Lexington.

    The performance classes test your knowledge of rules, details, and equipment for any event that real horses compete in. If you post here, you've probably competed in hunters at some point and know the rules reasonably well. Do you know what equipment is allowed for roping? Or driven dressage? Have you ever seen a working cow horse class? At NAN you have 10 minutes to build your setup on a small section of catering table before you have to walk away and leave the judges to view your arrangement from every possible (and some impossible) angle and make their decisions.

    Model horse people have an incentive to learn the rules for all the classes, and a way to test your knowledge and creativity. "Fluffy standing with tack" isn't really what the judges are going for. Figuring out how to set up a scene so that it portrays the action is pretty difficult. For example, in the past few years there have been a lot of models created in a jumping pose. Slam-dunk, you think - put that horse over a jump and slap some tack on it and we have a winner. Except - sometimes the horse is tipped and the arc looks wrong, so the horse is about to pull a rail. This horse over here looks very pretty but he's doing a 5' effort and he's shown just clearing a scale 3' fence - ie, he has no room to unfold his legs. Here's one in a hunter class over a square oxer. That other one over there has a card saying he's competing in a grand prix, but he's wearing a standing martingale. And this other one is wearing western skid boots instead of hind ankle boots, and his girth is so loose you can see daylight.

    All of those are severe faults.

    For dressage, you are expected to specify the level, the test, and which movement in the test is being performed. If you say your horse is doing an extended trot at training level, and he's wearing a double bridle, you'll be out of the ribbons. You have to figure out what your model is doing, and find a test that accomodates that, then tack him up appropriately for the level. You can't win a ribbon in this class without learning something about dressage.

    On the halter side, before breed type and conformation are considered, there is the issue of proper horse skeletal anatomy. If the shoulder isn't in the right position for the leg position, the horse shouldn't pin. If the leg comes out of the body wrong, it shouldn't pin. If the neck is overly long and has strange abrupt bends instead of a continuous curve, it shouldn't pin. If the legs appear to be different lengths, it shouldn't pin. This is all well before we get to the complexities of judging an ordinary halter type class, where you're looking at conformation and implied biomechanics. The horse is frozen, and the judge must evaluate horses in different positions against each other. Real horse judges don't usually have to worry about whether the muscling on the shoulder is accurate.

    Picking the right breed for a sculpture is also part of the challenge. The breed choice has to take into account the body structure and also the color. And artists have a natural interest in unusual colors. People have started in model horses and gone on to do some considerable work in equine color genetics, finding examples of obscure colors in breeds and helping to develop knowledge of inheritance of unusual colors.

    Halter classes have developed quite a few talented artists. Several people now scuplting for Breyer and Stone (Kathleen Moody, Carol Herndon, Carol Willams, Sommer Prosser, Kristina Lucas Francis, Karen Gerhardt just off the top of my head) started out by customizing Breyer horses - that is, using heat to melt and reposition an original plastic horse, using fillers to restore the damaged contours and build correct musculature, and then painting the final result. And these artists and many others have their own lines of castings that they produce and sell themselves.

    Since those original days, hobbyists have reached out for new options for creating the sculptures they wanted. The Breyers of the 70's were especially frustrating - mostly just standing around in shades of brown. In the 80's and 90's, artists found new materials and techniques that allowed them to add detail and realism not found in the mass produced plastic, including resin, earthenware, and bone china. There are some amazing works available these days. Here are some of my favorites:

    Marcherware's Lirico
    Magnus, handbuilt earthenware draft horse by Kristina Lucas Francis
    The Model Horse Gallery - browse a wide catalog of artists
    Lesli Kathman
    Sarah Rose
    Lynn Fraley
    Shoebox Saddlery - what's on that website is downright crude compared to her lastest work
    NAN 2004 (Kentucky) - results, with photos from NAN 2004. See particularly:
    - Other Costume
    - Other English over Fences
    - Western Stockwork
    - Other Performance

    I expect NAN will have an amazing performance division this year.

    So is it silly? Of course it is. In the best possible way. But no sillier than buying a $50,000 truck and trailer to drive your horse to a 100 mile distance ride or a dressage show or anything else we do for a $2 rosette. Everyone's gotta have a hobby.



  15. #35
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    Nov. 9, 2005
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    uk
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    you know they are greogous -- anyone got a welsh cob look a like



  16. #36
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    Oct. 2, 1999
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    Mendocino County, CA: Turkey Vulture HQ
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    Welsh Cobs

    Latest release from Sarah Minkiewicz-Breunig:
    Dafydd (go to http://www.mink-studios.com/ for more/better photos and order info)

    Animal Artistry in England has done several Welsh Cobs.



  17. #37
    Join Date
    Sep. 24, 2001
    Location
    Lexington, Kentucky
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat

    Hitch, since you live in Lexington, you can come to the COTH get together at the Denny's in front of the Holiday Inn North, Thursday after NAN is over. I think we've decided on 8 pmish.
    What day?

    Thanks for all the great information, everyone.

    And just curious, anyone know what kind of prices go floating around for the true "collector's items"?
    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." ~ Jack Layton



  18. #38
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    Sep. 15, 2005
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    Lexington, KY
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    I'm late to this thread and I see people are trying desperately to turn it into a train wreck as they don't seem to want to understand... *sigh*

    Poltroon and Pat (and others!) have done a good job explaining things I think, so if some people would actually pay attention they would understand how, precisely, we show model horses and what the point is.

    I am a model horse shower, I show very few "off the shelf" as that doesn't interest me so much anymore. "Off the shelf" would be Original Finish or OF for short. OF is defined by the fact that it came from the factory, has not been altered in any way, and you collect or show it in that manner. The ones I do show are mostly extremely limited as they have better mold detail and gorgeous paintjobs. I guess showing OFs is a testament to the model owners skill at picking out the most detailed out of a line-up of models. Which one is the most realistically painted, has nice details, has good mold detail, is as biomechanically correct as an OF can get, etc.

    Some people customize (formerly known as R/R/H or Remake/Repaint/Hair) plastic or artist resin models into new positions, with new paintjobs and sculpted or mohair manes and tails. Some artists do amazing jobs with this. Faye Cohen is known for her hariing jobs when many people don't bother with that anymore: http://www.geocities.com/ansatacustoms/... this stuff is truly artwork!

    There are sculpters of Artist Resins or ARs. They either paint the ARs themselves or sell them to others finishwork artists to paint. I, personally, am a finishwork artist. I use an airbrush and regular brushes to paint the models as realistically as I can. Lots of artists are better than me But showing helps me gauge to what levels the art has come and helps me strive to better my skills as a finishwork artist.

    Performance showing has been explained in detail and if you've been paying attention you should have learned that it's all in the details Some people buy the work of others, I prefer to make most of my own props for both western and english events, I also made my own western tack using Rio Rondo parts to help, this is including weaving a rope cinch and braiding a gaming bridle and breast collar set of my own design. My 2 main performance horses (1 english, 1 western) both have enough qualifications for NAMHSA's Superior Event Horse in their respective divisions with my own skills as a tack maker and prop maker to get them there! There is a certain sense of pleasure in that akin to having used your own skills as a trainer to school your real horse to championships.

    Model horse showing is more like model trains IMO. You are attempting to recreate real life in realistically done miniature. Also, think of Artist Resins and Customs as collectable equine art you have an avenue to show off instead of only being able to enjoy at home alone This is our version of art shows, without all the affectations.

    As for having fun with showiing model horses, well some people are extremely serious and out to win, rather like real horse show competitiveness... but others use it as a opportunity to socialize with friends that have been made in the hobby. I have made friends with many people that I would have never known otherwise and even though they live in other states, we have a great time whenever we come together! I was at a show this Saturday in Knoxville, TN and 2 friends stayed with me for a couple nights as they live in IN. We had a blast on Friday playing with my real horses and going out to dinner. Saturday we drove down to the show together and kept each other company on the 3 hour drive which started early in the morning, had everyone in the show hall laughing (think drinks shooting out your nose laughing!) much of the day, and drove back to Lexington that night singing to what was on the radio. On Sunday we went trail riding out in Morehead, KY and got ice cream on the way back. Sounds real boring, doesn't it

    So to those detractors, don't knock the model horse hobby before you know what it's all about!
    ~ Shannon Hayden ~



  19. #39
    Join Date
    Oct. 2, 1999
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    There is an auction at Breyerfest where they sell one-of-a-kinds from the factory where prices typically run a few thousand for the most desired pieces.

    Some of the old "decorators" - ie, non-horse colors that no one wanted in the 50's and 60's like blue and metallic gold - will sell in the thousands if in perfect condition.

    A more typical premium price for a model that was produced in reasonable (>100) numbers and is desirable would be $50-$100.

    An older horse that is nothing special and/or with rubs in the finish might go for $5-$20. (The newer paint jobs have more detail and more depth and complexity than the older ones did.)



  20. #40
    Join Date
    Oct. 8, 2002
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    Maryland
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    Thinking of them as a form of art show makes them a lot less mockery-worthy, I think.

    I went to one of these with a friend as a kid, and it was surprisingly fun. The level of detail is fantastic- it's all about capturing a moment in time, so it wasn't just about how realistic the model was, but how realistic the tack was, and the setup as a whole.

    I remember one lady who had created the most amazing six horse draft hitch in miniature- it wasn't just leather lace either, she had brasses and metal accents on the thing, if you'd taken a picture, it would have looked exactly like the budweiser hitch it was that good.

    So maybe it's a little silly, but if you appreciate it as art, it's interesting stuff.
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.



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