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  1. #21
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    Mar. 8, 2006
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    Southeast Pennsylvania
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    2,641

    Default captive bolt

    At least someone is holding the horse while they attempt to "stun" him. that's not what you see in most horse slaughter pictures. Since that horse has his head held he can't move and be shot 3, 4, 5 times and suffer immeasureably. If horse slaughter is going to continue, it should be HUMANE. One shot ONLY. I certainly don't advocate horse slaughter, but as long as it is still being done, let him go down and unconscious on the first shot.



  2. #22
    Join Date
    Apr. 28, 2005
    Location
    SW Massachusetts
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    1,266

    Default

    ...And I am pleased that MY COTH dues are going towards providing a forum that doesn't censure discussion on important horse topics for the benefit of those who disagree!!

    Nicely said Horseandhound.

    SusanP - it would be great if we could work with him to increase the professionalism of the web site and reduce the illegal alien stuff.
    "There's something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man" ~ Sir Winston Churchill



  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2006
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    128

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by J Swan
    No offense SusanP - but this is a discussion forum. Expect debate or take the slaughter stuff elsewhere.

    Personally - I'm getting a bit peeved that part of my COTH subscription dues as well as my premium membership are going towards free advertising for anti-slaughter politics.

    As far as this guy goes - yeah - this is one of the reasons I'm more moderate on slaughter than I used to be.

    Anti-slaughter folks need to rethink about what they're doing - because I know I'm not the only one getting upset about the slaughter politics taking over so much of this forum. There are plenty of sites and BB's devoted to this issue - if I wanted to hear about it all the time I'd go visit those.

    But this - this is part of my subscription to a respected horse publication and as a subscriber - it's starting to annoy me.

    So don't read the threads related to slaughter issues. Simple as that. SusanP warned everyone up front. You didn't have to open Pandora's box if you didn't want to. There are many other threads you can read that don't relate to slaughter. We all pay our dues to COTH and are therefore entitled to a voice. You have the entitlement to respond or not respond.



  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar. 23, 2005
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
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    4,182

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Susan P
    I hope no one bothers to even write anything in this thread, but I felt I had the right to share this web site, take it for what it is, it needs NO EXPLANATION and you don't even have to agree. If you wish to insult someone please take it to the web site creator and not here. You don't need to say this is great information either, I'm just offering it to those who are interested.

    Please don't make another train wreck, those of us who oppose horse slaughter have a right to our opinion and to share articles and web sites too. I would suggest your opinions about this site go to the guest book or whatever this site has to offer instead of starting a fight here.
    If this entire post is not an attempt to censor discussion, I don't know what is.

    Luckily, the people of COTH are more than happy to disregard such censorship attempts!



  5. #25
    Join Date
    Oct. 18, 2000
    Posts
    22,438

    Default

    Being that many of the slaughter threads go on to denigrate the sports and professionals who pay for COTH operations - I don't know that everyone would agree.

    I didn't say I minded this topic being on the BB - I mind that it seems to be growing and the answer that "you don't have to read it" isn't really workable when more and more threads are about slaughter. And putting restrictions on threads like - don't respond if you don't agree - well - no way. THAT's not going to fly at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by horseandhound
    So don't read the threads related to slaughter issues. Simple as that. SusanP warned everyone up front. You didn't have to open Pandora's box if you didn't want to. There are many other threads you can read that don't relate to slaughter. We all pay our dues to COTH and are therefore entitled to a voice. You have the entitlement to respond or not respond.



  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug. 12, 2001
    Posts
    522

    Default

    Good grief...
    "Truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but, in the end, there it is." Sir Winston Churchhill



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Apr. 28, 2005
    Location
    SW Massachusetts
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    1,266

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by J Swan
    I didn't say I minded this topic being on the BB - I mind that it seems to be growing and the answer that "you don't have to read it" isn't really workable when more and more threads are about slaughter.
    The fact that you mind that the topic is growing on this BB is your issue, not the BBs. Fortunately, COTH allows people to have a reasonable discourse on horse related topics of interest to them. As has been said, if you mind, don't read them. What it seems you really mind, is that the opinion of some on these threads differs from yours. I respect your opinion and your right to contribute those opinions. Please respect my right to express my opinion, and the rights of others who don't agree with you.

    BTW, by my count, there were 4 threads in Off Course on horse slaughter issues specifically in the first 100 threads, and none in the first two pages of the other forums. Edited to add: Two other threads are on animal welfare of sales animals at auctions, but do not cover horse slaughter.
    Last edited by JumpingPaints; Jun. 18, 2006 at 06:02 PM.
    "There's something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man" ~ Sir Winston Churchill



  8. #28
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    Oct. 18, 2000
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    Default

    I don't this it's realistic to post links and start threads about this issue, tell people not to read it if they don't want to, or positive feedback only, etc. It's a DISCUSSION board.

    That means if you post something - you take your chances.

    In actuality - I think it's the reverse. You seem to think I mind that people do not share my opinion. I'm not the one posting about this issue and asking people not comment, or calling people names and part of the problem and monsters,etc. Actually - I start very few threads.

    edited to add - on the 1st page of the off course forum - there are 6 threads on auctions/slaughter or related issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by JumpingPaints
    The fact that you mind that the topic is growing on this BB is your issue, not the BBs. Fortunately, COTH allows people to have a reasonable discourse on horse related topics of interest to them. As has been said, if you mind, don't read them. What it seems you really mind, is that the opinion of some on these threads differs from yours. I respect your opinion and your right to contribute those opinions. Please respect my right to express my opinion, and the rights of others who don't agree with you.

    BTW, by my count, there were 4 threads in Off Course in the first 100 threads, and none in the first two pages of the other forums.



  9. #29
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2001
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    Packing my bags
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    Default

    Thanks for posting that link.

    I needed a good laugh...even better than the chinese exercise rider commercial...

    Spaceboy with paranoya...that is priceless!


    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  10. #30
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    Nov. 15, 2005
    Location
    NY
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    6,318

    Default

    Maybe the reason that there are so many slaughter/auction topics right now is that it is a hot topic everywhere that horse admirers congregate? With legislation being hammered out right now, it makes sense that discussions are happening and attests to the nature of our democratic nation; the power of the people to influence our government and laws.

    Does it not make sense that the more informed we all become and the more we discuss the topic the more likely a solution to the many issues surrounding slaughter might be found? However many threads it takes to do that, how can that be a bad thing?



  11. #31
    Join Date
    May. 24, 2006
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    226

    Default

    What's wrong with posting this kind of stuff??. This is life..its reality wether or not you want to see it. The same goes for other animals that are tortured everyday so we can eat our quarter pounders and whatnot. Judgeing by the amount of horse people shocked by the inhumane treatsment of horses, its probably safe to say a fair amount of folks are just as uneducated about what happens to the animals that "give" them pork roasts and the likes. Maybe if more people saw the reality of the situation they'd be less inclined to support such inhumane treatment the next time they head to the supermarket.



  12. #32
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    Jul. 14, 2000
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    midwest
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    10,342

    Default

    Heck Susan, you had the right to post a link and I'll enjoy my right to respond. I had never seen the site and went to view it. It was almost as refined and informative as the beloved state of Kansas's own 'effin brickbat Fred Phelps & The Westboro Baptist Church website.

    In both instances you've gotta love freedom of speech and how folks promote their ideas and illustrate their message.



  13. #33
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    Sep. 12, 2001
    Location
    Hotlanta
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    Default

    I didn't think it was TOO bad, but then I've seen LOTS of gross/gory stuff (used to work for a vet), so you probably can't go by me.

    I noticed some of the photos were taken at Dallas Crown, which I understand is a DISGUSTING place. In my research for a speech on horse slaughter, I found articles about DC that even turned MY stomach. It's also mentioned in Gail Eisnitz's shocking expose' book, Slaughterhouse, in which she interviews a former DC employee. Apparently, DC finds it cheaper to pay fines than to fix its problems (environmental contamination, inhumane conditions for the horses, and lack of OSHA standards for the workers).

    Of the three equine slaughterhouses still running in the US, Dallas Crown is the one that needs to be closed FIRST.



  14. #34
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    Nov. 9, 2005
    Location
    Northern New Jersey
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    2,474

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by friesiandriver
    What's wrong with posting this kind of stuff??. This is life..its reality wether or not you want to see it. The same goes for other animals that are tortured everyday so we can eat our quarter pounders and whatnot. Judgeing by the amount of horse people shocked by the inhumane treatsment of horses, its probably safe to say a fair amount of folks are just as uneducated about what happens to the animals that "give" them pork roasts and the likes. Maybe if more people saw the reality of the situation they'd be less inclined to support such inhumane treatment the next time they head to the supermarket.
    so, is that the vegetarian slant? I sure hope that you use nylon driving harnesses .



  15. #35
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    Oct. 18, 2000
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    22,438

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda
    Does it not make sense that the more informed we all become and the more we discuss the topic the more likely a solution to the many issues surrounding slaughter might be found? However many threads it takes to do that, how can that be a bad thing?
    It does make sense.

    But who appointed Susan P and onthebit12000 et al the arbiters? There can be no balanced discussion because no balanced is intended by posting these types of threads.

    This stuff is done for shock value. I don't like being manipulated.

    Guess what - slaughter of livestock doesn't shock me. I know where my food comes from - and what you see in the grocery store in santized shrink wrap looked exactly like the animals in those videos.

    Same with your leather bridle, same with your tennis shoes.

    So puhleeze - if you must be against horse slaughter - get a real education. Learn about animal husbandry and agriculture in the US, the industries surrounding crop production, how livestock is handled, what those standards are, etc.

    Because the "shock" videos don't tell the whole story. You're never going to receive an education from people who will allow only one side of the story to be told.



  16. #36
    Join Date
    May. 24, 2006
    Posts
    226

    Default

    You can call it whatever you'd like..I just find it somewhat hypocritical that tonnes of people get bent out of shape when they see horses being treated like this and yet done seem to think twice about supporting the exact same thing if it's a different species.
    I don't like slaughter in any form, and no I don't use leather harness's, although the logic doesn't really make sense because animals are not killed primarily for their skin, it is our desire to eat their flesh that drives the market and the factory farms. Leather is a byproduct.
    Secondly, I am educated enough about it to make an informed decision. We have a big animal sciences program at my university here in Alberta, and being a science major (and hopefully a vet) I choose the animal science/ag classes as my options. I KNOW that what I am seeing in regards horse slaughter..ie methods ect are the same as those used for cattle(captive stun bolt, shipping ect). I know how animals are kept on a factory farm. You can tell yourself it isn't the same all you like, but the only factor that isn't the same is that your attached to one species of animal and not the other. If you say:"this sucks because I like horsies and the thought of them being eaten offends me", then fine. But to say it's wrong on the basis of cruelty and then to go eat a steak just doesn't make much sense.



  17. #37
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    Oct. 18, 2000
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    22,438

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    Quote Originally Posted by SBT
    Apparently, DC finds it cheaper to pay fines than to fix its problems (environmental contamination, inhumane conditions for the horses, and lack of OSHA standards for the workers).
    This is pretty true of lots of corporations - DC is not unique in that regard - except that its horses. But many corporations just cough up fines for all sorts of things and just factor it in as a cost of doing business.



  18. #38
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    Nov. 2, 2001
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    Packing my bags
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    Quote Originally Posted by friesiandriver
    You can call it whatever you'd like..I just find it somewhat hypocritical that tonnes of people get bent out of shape when they see horses being treated like this and yet done seem to think twice about supporting the exact same thing if it's a different species.
    I don't like slaughter in any form, and no I don't use leather harness's, although the logic doesn't really make sense because animals are not killed primarily for their skin, it is our desire to eat their flesh that drives the market and the factory farms. Leather is a byproduct.
    Secondly, I am educated enough about it to make an informed decision. We have a big animal sciences program at my university here in Alberta, and being a science major (and hopefully a vet) I choose the animal science/ag classes as my options. I KNOW that what I am seeing in regards horse slaughter..ie methods ect are the same as those used for cattle(captive stun bolt, shipping ect). I know how animals are kept on a factory farm. You can tell yourself it isn't the same all you like, but the only factor that isn't the same is that your attached to one species of animal and not the other. If you say:"this sucks because I like horsies and the thought of them being eaten offends me", then fine. But to say it's wrong on the basis of cruelty and then to go eat a steak just doesn't make much sense.
    Well said...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  19. #39
    Join Date
    Dec. 31, 2000
    Location
    El Paso, TX
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    12,610

    Default

    Friesandriver- Horses go through much worse cruelty in the whole slaughter process than cattle, pigs or sheep...

    1) Numerous auctions

    2) Transport up to 30 hrs

    3) Being processed (killed) in facilities designed for cattle (ie no head restraints, etc)



  20. #40
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    Sep. 13, 2000
    Location
    Greenville, MI,
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    Exclamation As Horrific as that is...

    And the sheer waste of young good horses, After seeing Animal Cops Houston last night on Animal Planet, I think the quick death of those horses is far more humane than the horrendous things I saw done to horses, by supposed owners on that show! I cried my eyes out, The Houston SPCA does an awful lot ! I commend them for the lives they have saved, and the people who had the horses confiscated were prosecuted. I have no answers to the slaughter issue, The noble animals that mean so much to all of us, are mearly a cash crop to many. Just like cattle. The looks on those trusting young Belgians was more than I could handle!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



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