[mbm]

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=ulrikethiel

supposedly there will be more posted as time goes by of more different riders etc.

it will be interesting to see what transpires will all the renewed agitation.

edited 06.16.06 to fix and to note that there are now 11 videos posted with different riders

[fiona]

You say Vomit, i say Vendetta
Lets call the whole thing off.....

[SGray]

You say Vomit, i say Vendetta
Lets call the whole thing off.....

a vendetta? meaning that you disagree with the method demonstrated therein?

[OakesBrae]

No, fiona thinks that the producer of the videos has a problem with Anky herself.

[Sabine]

And Fiona is right...

[MeredithTX]

I've stayed out of this whole debate, but these videos certainly made me uncomfortable. =/

[WBLover]

Well it certainly goes to show for those who say the photographs are just a moment in time and that these horses are hyperflexed, or put in RK, or whatever it's called, for just a moment--not true!! They are ridden with their chins in their chests throughout these videos!!!

I've tried to stay out of these too, but Yuck!!

[Sannois]

And Fiona is right...

No one give a rats ass if its Anky, or Mickey mouse riding that way.
Its plain not Dressage. The fact that you all agree with it but will not even say why , just that none of us know our ass from page eight is what makes most folks mad!

[Sannois]

Well it certainly goes to show for those who say the photographs are just a moment in time, that these horses are not hyperflexed, or put in RK, or whatever it's called, for just a moment, they are ridden this way throughout.

I've tried to stay out of these too, but Yuck!!

The horses head was never released.

[class]

No, fiona thinks that the producer of the videos has a problem with Anky herself.

maybe the producer of the videos is anky's biggest fan and loves to tape her riding. it only becomes a "problem" or a "vendetta" if what you see is something that you *personally interpret* as anky doing awful or ugly.

if i showed my SO, who knows nothing about riding, "look babe, a video of anky warming up her horse." he would say, "that's nice." he wouldn't say, "why would somebody post such a video?? they must have a problem with anky! how mean of that videographer!!"

[Daydream Believer]

That is digusting. Watch # 5 and see the horrible quality of the work itself..the canter is terrible and the horse is scooting and flat...horrible. Didn't Nuno get torn up not long ago for a 3 second video of 4 beat canter...well here is a lot more video of canter work that is just as bad if not worse for a large part of the warmup. It makes me sick to see horses ridden like that. As for calling this a warmup exercise...My God...she does it for nearly the entire ride! Where is the vomit icon?

[ideayoda]

So, the person who filmed warmups at Aachen 25 years ago had a vendetta against Uphoff???? Gimme a break! Its documentation of WHAT IS BEING DONE, repeatedly. It was in the background with five horses when Anky did her interview about the death of the jr yg rider horse on dutch tv (her choice of backgrounds), it is done by the (then) 12 yr old son (an expert I presume too) for another interview, and it is done for hours in warm ups. IF they are pround of being able to use the method, then why not show it to the world? Whats the problem, except that SJ wants to make $$ off her image. The only time the horse is released is when the horse stays down, otherwise its spurred down again. A finished gp horse should work on the hint of aids, great applications shouldnt be necessary. What is most interesting for me, is the body postures of those watching which were/are the same 25 years ago watching Uphoff at Aachen or today....crossed arms and partially turned bodies and looking down alot. Sorta says how many disagree without saying it.

[JSwan]

You say Vomit, i say Vendetta
Lets call the whole thing off.....

You may be right - but since time and time again we're seeing evidence of Rollkur used in a way that is not condoned by the FEI, and that even the users of the method claim isn't happening - well - I ask - what's a person to think??

A person can claim that their method is only used for a few seconds, and as an exercise, "horse-yoga", stretching- or whatever term you want to use. But these videos disprove those assertions. Assertions made by some of the very same people in those videos.

So were they lying then or are they lying now?

[Moll]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YODFS...search=rollkur

I don't care who you are or how many medals you win. You don't do that to a horse.

[fiona]

You say Vomit, i say Vendetta
Lets call the whole thing off.....

Thanks for the insight into what i think but that was actually a joke because these videos have already been posted and i thought we covered all that.

I haven't at any point commented on the content of the videos, i did say i could understand why people may think it is a vendetta because 6 video clips suddenly appear on a free to view web site posted by one person featuring one rider. A person connected to them via an ongoing campaign posted the link (edited to add: twice) on another public website alerting readers to their existence. In my opinion the rider featured may take the view that the person posting the videos has a problem with them and feel aggrieved.The statement written over one of the videos denying any wish to do harm does not seem entirely convincing. IMHO.

It's just another point of view, go on try and see it. I can see all sides of this argument, it's really not that hard. Thanks for the support Sabina, on this i think i am truly right and whatever the merit of the anti rk argument the method undermines it.

[JSwan]

Perhaps a new thread was started in the hopes of a fresh start- and not to quibble over disclaiming text.

What you may see as a vendetta - another may see as a crusade - and another tilting at windmills.

Regardless - I think there's enough controversery surrounding the method to warrant intense scrutiny.

Thanks for the insight into what i think but that was actually a joke because these videos have already been posted and i thought we covered all that.

I haven't at any point commented on the content of the videos, i did say i could understand why people may think it is a vendetta because 6 video clips suddenly appear on a free to view web site posted by one person featuring one rider. A person connected to them via an ongoing campaign posted the link (edited to add: twice) on another public website alerting readers to their existence. In my opinion the rider featured may take the view that the person posting the videos has a problem with them and feel aggrieved.The statement written over one of the videos denying any wish to do harm does not seem entirely convincing. IMHO.

It's just another point of view, go on try and see it. I can see all sides of this argument, it's really not that hard. Thanks for the support Sabina, on this i think i am truly right and whatever the merit of the anti rk argument the method undermines it.

[sm]

"It's just another point of view, go on try and see it. I can see all sides of this argument, it's really not that hard. Thanks for the support Sabina, on this i think i am truly right and whatever the merit of the anti rk argument the method undermines it."

What are we talking about now, warm-up methods shown despite the closed door secrecy? Is that the method that undermines the anti rk argument? Quite frankly, if a team represents a country, people of that country have a right to see what's going on. And if my dollars go to support the FEI, and they do, then I have a right to know what's going on and exactly what I am supporting (or contributing to) with my dollars.

Are we really saying that photojournalism (more precisely videojournalism, but that probably isn't even a word) is not a good thing? Or am I missing fiona's point?

[RidesAHaflinger]

Ugly. Very ugly. It makes my neck hurt and it makes me dizzy to watch. Where's the Queasy Face when you need it?

[solargal]

I know nothing about this, but my question is...It seems to be more than one or two riders doing this in the background to some degree. Is this the case, or am I wrong, because I don't have any dressage experience, and two, is this more common here or in other countries?

[sm]

thanks mbm for the tread. Keep 'em coming.

I don't like having my head in the sand, or like the rollured horses only ALLOWED to see the dirt. To carry on the US Constituion analogy already started on the other RK thread, and the women's right to vote analogy: to demand training be kept secret is the equivalent of the old saying, "keep the women barefoot and in the kitchen."

My compliments to the photojouralist(s), God bless. Keep 'em coming.