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  1. #41
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    Mar. 10, 2006
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    The funniest part is when the DQs come out guns ablazin' and bash big lick/Parelli/western pleasure, etc. Dressage is more correct or legit than those disciplines? Riiiiiight...



  2. #42
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    Mar. 10, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by nero
    Well poling is seen as cruel, the jury is still out on whether rk is. THAT's the diff.
    How is poling cruel? I think the jury is still out on that one too.



  3. #43
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    Sep. 13, 2000
    Location
    Greenville, MI,
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    Thumbs down LMAO!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by nero
    Doesn't matter this is warm up/schooling. She rides 'correctly' in the test and marked very highly for it. Cross training is a legitimate aspect of sports training.
    CROSS training??? OH get real!!!
    Let me use a tack pole on my jumper right?? Then I can go in the ring and win and that makes it OK???
    Wonderful ethics you have!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  4. #44
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    Sep. 13, 2000
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    Greenville, MI,
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    Thumbs down But To you nero...

    Quote Originally Posted by nero
    Well poling is seen as cruel, the jury is still out on whether rk is. THAT's the diff.
    It is acceptable Dressage is that correct??
    Forget if its cruel or not, it is NOT what Dressage is about! But its ok to you and Sabryant and others because it earns high marks and medals in the ring?? You are incredible!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  5. #45
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    Mar. 11, 2003
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    Guys, trust the people who ride dressage, this is absolutely not okay. I believed that people were catching Anky in 'moments of time' until I just saw these videos. This is not the way dressage horses are to be trained. I believe in the training scale, because it is effective and takes into account the well being of the horse.

    I actually feel embarrassed for her. These video's are very shameful, and a lot of people who believe in her are going to be very disturbed by seeing this.

    I don't know if this will be banned but it definately should be. I gave Anky the benefit of the doubt, but after seeing this, I really think this is extremely wrong.



  6. #46
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    Oct. 18, 2000
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    22,426

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    "(disclaimer I'm only a Prelim eventer who at best has done 1st level well, schooling 2nd) ... "

    Heck - I don't even event anymore - I just foxhunt. No disclaimer needed for me...

    Think about your own riding, and what you ask of your horse in dressage - because I don't care what the dressage only folks think - eventers do lovely correct dressage work even though their horses don't have a brand on their butts.

    One of the accusations that has been made is that these horses have become so contorted - so pulled in through the use of excessive force on the curb - the result is a parody of correct work. There is no real balance, there is no harmony - and most of all - the horse is extremely tense. And since the judges reward it with high marks.... it continues and grows in popularity.

    What I'm seeing is what my instructors beat into my head as completely inappropriate and wrong wrong wrong. The crank and spank. Crank that horse's head in to its chest - and in - and in - and then spur spur spur - lean into that curb - spur spur spur - force that horse into an extreme position with the curb, when it slows, then get some semblance of motion using the spur.

    So the horse cannot go forward - and cannot go backward - he can't rear, he can't buck. So you get the boing boing boing and an extremely tense horse.

    Now would you want to take such a horse - a horse that has become accustomed to excessively heavy aids - and is used to not moving until the rider cranks on his mouth or spurs him - would you want to take him on a xc course? I wouldn't - not for all the tea in China. I'd be scared for both of us.

    Not a very elegant way of putting it I admit -and others have a far more eloquent way of describing it - and I'm not against using different methods in an attempt to overcome a training problem, or to encourage a horse to develop its topline, etc.

    But excessive use of the curb and spur - especially to produce an artificial result - just isn't appropriate.

    That's what I'm seeing in those videos. Extreme crank and spank. I don't care if it's Anky - or Mother Theresa; it makes no difference to me. I'm not the groupie type, and I don't idolize people - so really - I don't care who's doing it.

    And doccer makes another good point - and we've seen it here on this BB. The trickle down effect. The "you're just jealous of Anky and you don't have any gold medals" defense", etc.

    How long before we see local dressage shows packed with Training level riders emulating Anky? Hell - we've got judges penalizing Intro and Training level riders for not being on the bit - when it isn't even a requirement for that level. How ong before judges start rewarding lower level riders for this type of riding?

    Personally - I hope the FEI puts its foot down and defines what methods will be considered appropriate in warmup - and then have the Stewards yank a few riders out and eliminate them if those rules are not followed. If other sports have to do it - so should dressage. Dressage isn't the noble lofty art that has been claimed - it needs scrutiny just like the other sports.



  7. #47
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    Dec. 6, 2002
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    Bucks County, PA
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    this makes me want tho throw up......maybe I don't want to get back into dressage anymore!!!
    "And my good dreams? They all come with a velvet muzzle and four legs. All my good dreams are about horses."--In Colt Blood

    COTH Barn Rats Clique!



  8. #48
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    Sep. 13, 2000
    Location
    Greenville, MI,
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    Exclamation Young filly...

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungFilly
    Guys, trust the people who ride dressage, this is absolutely not okay. I believed that people were catching Anky in 'moments of time' until I just saw these videos. This is not the way dressage horses are to be trained. I believe in the training scale, because it is effective and takes into account the well being of the horse.

    I actually feel embarrassed for her. These video's are very shameful, and a lot of people who believe in her are going to be very disturbed by seeing this.

    I don't know if this will be banned but it definately should be. I gave Anky the benefit of the doubt, but after seeing this, I really think this is extremely wrong.
    I agree. I know quite a few upper level Dressage riders, and none of them have anything good to say about this method. A few I have spoke to just shake their heads.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  9. #49
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    Jun. 13, 2005
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    I am sorry does anyone find this pretty? I find it cruel and the horse is so uncomfortable. I think I saw somewhere in the beginning the horse twitching his lip that usually means something is bothering him. My God there cannot be someone that sees this beautiful and great. The horse defiantly looks forced and there is nothing beautiful about it. Plain disgusting.



  10. #50
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    Jun. 4, 2002
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    Suffolk, VA
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    On our local NC board we have a Rollkur discussion underway in our Voice for the Horses forum which is dedicated to horse welfare. I am going to copy paste some of the comments from non dressage riders for you to read. Many of these folks are pleasure riders, western show folks, and games riders. These comments were after seeing the Horses for Life site...and only the last poster has had a look at the videos. I posted the link over there as well this evening after seeing these videos earlier. Take heed dressage folks...this is what other disciplines are saying....


    "ok, here is my personal opinion:

    This is a sad case of wanting a certain look. A bowed neck does look pretty if held in a ergonomically correct manner. This is not. Aside from it's just not possibly being comfortable for the horse, it must be physically damaging as well. The horse look stressed. Just try holding your own neck in that position and see how long before you can't stand it anymore. But you can stop when you want. Nuff said."

    "How do they expect the horses to fully use themselves when they can't even get their heads out of their chest?? There's no way they can fully use their hindquarters and really round themselves while having to carry their neck in such a way.

    That's really sad that it's come to that..."

    "Those horses look like they are in total agony. Every discipline has its fair share of cruel training methods but that is just soooo un-natural."

    "I am adding to this post only because I am blown away by the way humans treat horses in the name of winning and training.

    I know nothing, or very little about dressage and even less about this cruel way of riding. I just know it is pathetic and unnecessary.
    I really do not understand why anyone wants to ride this way....what possible purpose does it serve? What possible reason did it come about, who started it and why?
    If it is so hurtful (and it certainly is) , then WHY do judges and trainers allow it? These are questions I know we cannot answer, but certainly should make us think about why we show and what we get out of it.
    Do we show because WE want to win, or because it helps us understand our horses better...what made this way of training and riding come about?"

    "Not only is it cruel, but what exactly is the twisted logic behind using such a method? Those horses are behind the bit, which is not at all what you want in dressage."

    "That's so wrong. I would love to have the skill and resources these riders have, but what do they do with them? The torture their partners! It's unreal!"

    "OMG. I don't know much about dressage, and have only seen pics of this for the first time now. I never even knew horses necks could bend like that!! I always thought their neck helped tham balance, how in the world does that help them balance? And, now this may be a stupid question, but is there supposed to be THAT much tension on the shanked bit at all times?"

    I think this last comment of the poster who watched the video is very damning. She is a western rider. If SHE could see that tension on the curb, you know it's not an illusion.



  11. #51
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    Aug. 13, 2003
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    Northern NH horse lives in Western NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailblazzer
    The funniest part is when the DQs come out guns ablazin' and bash big lick/Parelli/western pleasure, etc. Dressage is more correct or legit than those disciplines? Riiiiiight...

    Good point. It does seem like sometimes Dressage people forget that Dressage is not "the one true way" and that other styles are just as correct. Needless to say this doesn't apply to all posters.

    I watched the video again and I don't see the cruelty. I certainly wouldn't want my horse with his head that low but there is no way that he would be allowed to stretch his head out during his time in the show ring. He can stretch it out the other 23.5 hours of the day though if he so chooses LOL.



  12. #52
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    Mar. 11, 2003
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    Quote "I think this last comment of the poster who watched the video is very damning. She is a western rider. If SHE could see that tension on the curb, you know it's not an illusion."

    Of course is damning. My SO could see this also and know its wrong. It IS wrong. I am sorry Anky. It is wrong.



  13. #53
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    Jan. 22, 2004
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    532

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois
    It is acceptable Dressage is that correct??
    Forget if its cruel or not, it is NOT what Dressage is about! But its ok to you and Sabryant and others because it earns high marks and medals in the ring?? You are incredible!
    no i didn't say that, i think its acceptable because a i don't think its abusive, b it allows anky to produce some amazing results, so from my pov what's the problem IF i thought it was cruel I'd be against it. I don't. period.



  14. #54
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    Jan. 13, 2003
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    Well these videos are bad enough but thinking about horses being ridden like this EVERY DAY and not just in a warm up makes my whole body hurt.

    I just wish those who use the method would state it up front - so those who oppose it won't find out a horse they bred or had owned is living in this torture chamber.



  15. #55
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    Jan. 22, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailblazzer
    What difference does it make that this is schooling? I guess if you only care about ribbons, what goes on outside of the show ring doesn't matter. But you're not one of those people, are you?

    And I don't see how you can call this cross training. If you want real cross-training, why don't we see her hack her horses (WITHOUT draw reins), jump them, teach them to drive, do western, etc. This rollkur crap is more like un-training than anything...
    Actually she does do these things as well.



  16. #56
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    Apr. 21, 2004
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    Pennsylvania now :)
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    Anky rides her horses Western?

    This I MUST see.



  17. #57
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    Mar. 10, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by nero
    it allows anky to produce some amazingly bad results
    corrected



  18. #58
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    Jan. 22, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by OakesBrae
    Anky rides her horses Western?

    This I MUST see.
    Yup, you'd be surprised, she actually subscribes to the more western ideas for a lot of her training than traditional dressage, she spoke about it at a recent clininc I attended of hers, she works with western riders in Holland, there are even pics of her on her website riding in a western saddle on a western trained horse.



  19. #59
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    Jan. 22, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailblazzer
    corrected
    don't be a smarta$#@ tb, quit rewording my posts, you just look like a fool



  20. #60
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    Mar. 10, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by nero
    Yup, you'd be surprised, she actually subscribes to the more western ideas for a lot of her training than traditional dressage, she spoke about it at a recent clininc I attended of hers, she works with western riders in Holland, there are even pics of her on her website riding in a western saddle on a western trained horse.
    There are pictures of her in a dressage saddle as well, but that doesn't mean that she knows what she is doing. Anyone can buy a saddle.

    Let's see some pictures of Salinero being galloped in the field in a snaffle. How about hacking out bareback with just a halter. Let's see him compete in a trail class. And what about combined driving? And for a horse of his "caliber," training or even prelim eventing should be a piece of cake. THAT is cross-training! Not going around with a shortened neck and a death grip on the reins...



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